I have a venue that can hold ~200 players. I will offer up the space any time, if we want to save money on table space at gencon.

I'm in.

TripsEX said:

Do we know for sure these are coming down? Do we have a timetable?

Regardless, I'll try and get something up over the holidays.

Funny you all should be tossing ideas around like this. My scout in Arkansas and I were investigating the idea of buying the UFS licensing. Have it be a player-driven company.

Great idea - now for the reality

Some roadblocks:

-Licensing costs - We may have to start with our own license to generate enough income to get the big licenses

-Printing costs - I suspect very expensive - We would not be able to start with foil cards, but those could be included with later sets

-Artwork costs - While some artists may be ok to do pro-bono work for exposure, there may be a lot of expense involved with this and quality may not be what it was when STG/FFG ran the show. But as with Alpha, the artwork was sub-par, but got better as revenue was generated.

-Promotion costs - enough said

-Distribution costs and process - never had to deal with this, no idea how it works. But it is something that needs to be handled

-Startup costs - 99-100% of whatever we could scrounge up would have to go into the company. Paying positions would be few if any at all.

-The Independent Problem - We have a number of people really excited about helping now - right after the game is cancelled. Where will people's motivation be several months down the line when they are working at their job and spending their free time working on a game that may or may not fly? (see the good news below).

-Organization - There has to be strict organization and deadlines. Especially with these volunteer projects. I understand life intrudes with their hobbies; but if this is to be successful, then we have to be willing to give our blood sweat and tears to the project. Sacrifice is the word. Yet we could see great rewards too.

-The hobby game market - Truth be told - it is very difficult to make any sort of profit in this market. However if we focus on one line and give it all we have, then there is a chance we can make it work. If there is a market for the true small independent - it is this market.

Our goal should be to take what we currently like and change things that need to be changed. See Paizo's Pathfinder for an example of how this is done.

Some suggestions:

Game play/balance - This was starting to happen and the game play was starting to get good again with the last several sets (SW1 onward). We should keep the direction.

Power level - MTG has the super competitive - "I am going to kill you for those cards" thing down. I like that we are much more laid back. There is a market for that and I feel a much better community. It is my opinion that it is that casually competitive type of community that gives us a chance of making this succeed.

OP - Need a better website.

OP part 2 - See above. And we need to keep with the product prize concept. The player as character card should also remain. A world rankings site should come back. Finally we need to have a much more organized organized play - meaning two - three different tournament types that have support. This also needs to start small as we build the company.

Feedback loop - Players should have a way to give constructive criticism to developers (not just bitching). That means forums and probably some sort of post-tournament discussion. Maybe some other means that I cannot think of right now.

Website - Duh. Also a searchable card library. Announcements. Etc. Perhaps maybe we could get a new podcast going during initial development (hmm - maybe would help generate interest).

Next steps:

These are my suggestions:

1. Create a development site where people could join and have a singular place to discuss ideas

2. Contact FFG and determine what we can do and how much it would cost to do what we want to do (say no to copyright infringement)

3. Layout roles and then decide amongst ourselves who would fill those roles

4. Determine leaders for each group

5. Set deadlines

6. Work our asses off to save this good game.

Derek Knutsen

I think some people are misunderstanding what this is about. No one is purchasing the UFS license let alone the SF, SC, etc licenses (you probably don't even want to know how much that would cost and on top of that the companies are very picky about their licenses and it was hard enough for an actual gaming company to get those licenses what makes you think they are going to give them to a random person to make a game with). They are not going to go out and print, distribute, and sell UFS cards. This is a non-profit thing. What happens is the committee creates new sets, they either just use text or is someone is good enough with photoshop then they can use real images. Then they throw them in a PDF and post them on the net and anyone can print them and use them. They will be official to use at all tournaments etc. UFS will never be what it was as far as buying new sets, boosters, etc. The cost to do anything like that would be so huge that no one on here could even think about doing something like that.

And I'm pretty sure it's 100% legal to create cards as long as no one is trying to make money off of it. So you don't need to go buy the licenses for SF, SC, or UFS.

I realized too late that my post really needed to be away from what you were trying to organize. I am sorry and have moved it to its own thread.

JDub - I think you are correct about printing non-profit cards (like 95%) - but it is always a good idea to CYA and make sure from FFG that you are good to go. Especially if your website starts having a lot of traffic. More power to you and your idea - I really hope it works out.

I would love to have UFS continue. I'm in for playtesting of new sets or helping design.

I've been relegated to lurker status here for awhile, (the game has been dead and non-revivable in my area for well over a year now) but I'd like to help out on this if possible. Though given my current status the only meaningful help I could offer would be in a design capacity, and it looks like there are a couple others already interested in that...

I think, that if this gets off the ground, it might be a good idea to have a small committee that accepts open set applications rather than appointing a couple designated designers and hoping for the best. In other words, anyone could send a set in to this committee, and then based on power level, creativity, wordings, non-overcomplexity, visuals if applicable, etc. they'd decide whether or not the set is good enough to release. Or perhaps just do this at first to see what different people's takes look like so some good designers can be chosen. Either way.

BTW, would this mean we could make ourselves a Guilty Gear set now? Just need to find enough art or maybe screencaps... safebooru only has <1000 pics, and half of them are probably Dizzy >.< So it's a bit off-topic, but does anyone know of any good GG fanart sites?

Antigoth (and Jasco Games)...I'm DEFINITELY in!! Let me know how we're doing this and what discussions need to take place.

I love this game and refuse to let it go. Even if UFS becomes a "virtual" game, as you mentioned Raw Deal, Star Wars, and others have, Antigoth, i'm all for that!

I'm without a doubt in for continuing UFS.

This was not a worthy death. Waste not friends and rivals everywhere, for our blazing soul batteries will come through in the clinch, and keep the world's greatest game reanimated!

Antigoth,

Please consolidate everything into dwolf25000's post about reviving the dead. We will be best working together and all in one place. we have more support as a community if we all have the same goals.

I would love to incorperate a players committee even if the game was not recently discontinued!

In the mean time:

If you are a scout / store owner - the first thing is maintaining your playgroup. Keeping people playing.
Keep holding your regular UFS events. Talk to your players - how do they want the events to continue.

For all of those seeing "Virtual Cards / Card design"

Keep in mind that the Raw Deal Players Committee didn't actualy release a virtual set for almost 8 months after its inception. (Or longer)

If virtual cards are going to be done, they'll be done right.

If you want UFS to continue as an LCG / Player Owned and Produced CCG / Jasco Games produced CCG - Whatever... the biggest thing that the game will continue to need is active players.

Even though the game is dead - remember your local hobby shop still probably has UFS in stock. If you enjoy playing game, and want to keep it up - keep purchasing product.

**Personal Observation**

I noticed from my UFS travels that many players had smaller collections, where they struggled to build decks outside of a very limited niche.
There were a lot of really neat aspects to UFS that never got explored because of the volume of product that was released. If people keep acquiring cards that is the best thing for the future of UFS, as there are many ideas that many folks have never tried. Many facets of the game that people haven't explored.

At the end of the day this is no longer the "SF or SC or whatever" CCG. This is UFS, and if you're still playing it, you like the idea of the CCG, and exploring where the CCG can take you.

<End personal observation, and back to regular message>

For those of you who want to see UFS restored some day, here are two things to help keep your hope up:

• Vampire: The Eternal Struggle (V:TES) was originally published by Wizards of the Coast (WOTC) as Jyhad back in 1994. They quickly saw their mistake at the name and flipped it to V:TES less then a year later. After 3 expansion sets, the third arguably being the best time of the game, they (WOTC) shelved V:TES during their effort to "clean up" prior to being purchased by Hasbro. During the next three years, V:TES continued to sell. To the point where all of the Sabbat (the above mentioned 3rd expansion) set sold out. White Wolf saw the demand via secondary market sales of V:TES and bought back the licence from WOTC in 2000. They reprinted the Sabbat set as Sabbat War, and the game has been rolling ever since. Over 15 years after it first started - White Wolf will be released yet another expansion this coming Feb called 'Heirs to the Blood'.
  
• Highlander CCG was originally published in 1995 by Thunder Castle Games. After the games demise in early 2000, the Missing Link Expansion Team (MLE) continued to publish virtual sets and keep the Fanbase for the game strong. The ongoing demand for the game was strong enough that a company called SAEC Games released the Black Raven expansion based off of the Highlander: The Raven TV Series. There were some legal issues around this as the SAEC didn't have all the licences in place to actually publish the game. However it did kick the original licence holder of the game Mike Sager to release a 2nd Edition of the game under the Highlander TCG company moniker. After it's January 2007 re-release (almost 10 years after the last official expansion) Highlander is alive and well again, and releasing product. This past year at Gencon it was a bit of a shock as many of the players present for the Worlds were the same guys who were into it 10 years ago. It was really surreal.

There are two success stories of cancelled CCG's coming back from the dead. I'm sure there's more, but the common thread with both of those was player interest, and the continued sale of product after the games death showing that the game was viable.

So... keep those UFS cards dust free.

For those who have posted "I'd love to help if you will have me" - Everyone is welcome. It doesn't matter what you did when you were on the forums. The biggest thing that the community needs at this time is EVERYONE to stick together. No fighting, no feuding, no egos.

Proto (Fred) has some ideas that he wants to translate into a web space - Aslum has the space. Why don't the two of you work together to see what you can come up with?

I do agree that we need an official home of the UFS:PC before we go much further.

Please understand - I'm getting the stone rolling. If there are folks out there who want to run this (Jasco, Dwolf25000) I'm going to happily let someone else take the reigns of this and run with it. This does not need to be Antigoth's UFS:PC. I just wanted to get people working on this immediately.

Antigoth - we need all the help we can get. I don't want to throw out any ideas - because there are merits and pitfalls to each of them. Personally I see a profit path back to vitality for this game, but there are many other paths that could be taken. As you said this isn't any one person's game. That is why I would like to see a group of us get together and hash out where we would like to see UFS in the future. Another good point you made is to keep playing. One of the most frustrating things about hobby gaming is that when new stuff comes out, it seems there is a tendancy to believe the old stuff will not work anymore. All the cards are playable (with some minor banned/errata/restricted exceptions) still. Keep things going and for those of us involved with the re-launch - we need to keep what we are doing high-profile. Let people know how things are progressing and when appropriate timelines to new product.

For right now - I believe that we need to consolidate and get ideas out there.

Antigoth, like I said before, I'm cool with doing anything y'all need me to You should have my email, and I talked to TripsEX last night.

I would love to help, but I'm not really sure what I should do. Anyway, I'm glad to see so many people here willing to help.

I have created a Google group to help facilitate discussion. Anyone wanting to help - please head to http://groups.google.com/group/ufs-relaunch

Count me in there man. I won't go down with out a fight.

Aim: Halbard100

at work and too busy to read any of this thread...but of course im in.

I've already e-mailed about it, but I wanted to post here as well. My group of 6 players is in.

Smazzurco said:

You BETTER be, man! I'd have to slap you silly if you weren't!

Hi guys,

I've partially worked out a system for "computerizing" the ufs game
rules. Right now I'm a CS grad student that worked on this project
last summer. I've got a windows form graphic setup in place which can
be translated into xml, .net.

A very good example of a free(ish) online card game is Legends of Norrath.
It has all the features of a card game - including probably the
hardest, to visually implement - full deck tutoring.

The most annoying thing about playing online is that there needs to be
a dialogue at every moment a card could possibly be used or played.
In UFS this is rather extensive, but computer help might actually make
the game a bit more playable.

Basically here is the rundown of what I've done so far:

================================================================
Each card has a "timing" during which it can be played or used. After
being played each card emits various other "timings" that can trigger
cards. There are two major kinds of timings.

1) before or after your / your opponents (4 possibilities) does
*blank* (enhance, response, form, block, control check, reversal, dmg
being delt, attack resolves)

2) special timings like on the card Corrupting Force : Destroy this
foundation: After your opponent destroys 1 of their foundations due to
one of your card effects, your opponent must destroy another
foundation or asset in their staging area...

Although it could be simplified to After your opponent destroys 1 of their foundations with
the next section it would be hell to program and needs its own
timing. These special timings require cards to emit more than just
the standard timings.

The timings are stored in a table with other card attributes. It has
the following columns. The first column is the table key which is
basically the cardname.jpg. Dots on cards are ' for the name. There
are a couple other rules used for special characters.

Image name, symbol 1, symbol 2, symbol 3, symbol 4,
hand size, vitality, zone, speed, damage, keyword 1, keyword 2, keyword 3,
block modifier, control check, difficulty, play timing 1, play timing 2, play timing 3,
activation timing 1, activation timing 2, activation timing 3,
activation timing 4, activation timing 5

I was filling out this table for block 5. I got 103 cards in and
stopped development. The next two steps remain undone.

=======================================================

Each card has its own restrictions: These are additional costs or
conditions that are required to play or activate the effect. These
must also be checked and/or satisfied in order to play the card.
These are hard coded into the effect code. These restrictions might
flow in reverse to creating static effects.

=======================================================

Each card has a hard coded game text(s) which actually carry out the
game rules and finally emit timings of their own. These require
selection at multiple different points. Each turn also has timings
based on no cards: ala - ready, draw, main, end.

=======================================================

I'll see what time I can scare up this winter break to continue this
project.

Oh yeah and I'm in =-)

I'm in.

A friend of mine is really into making his own cards and they look professionally made. I'm not sure they're really material to be integrated into UFS, because a cool combo within the means of the set may be extreamely overpowered when integrated with mainstream UFS. Regardless I'm still my communities scout and we aren't letting it die.

I just want to say that hands down that this is the best turnout I have ever seen in UFS history. We were concerned about the game dying, and it died. How many threads do you see about everyone leaving? Not many. This is nothing short of amazing.

What you need to do to help? Join the Google Group and get involved. You sitting back and just saying you'll do something is not going to help. You need to do something!

I'm definitely in and will do what I can to contribute to the revival of UFS.

TripsEX said:

I seriously just need 2 second this i was shocked when i seen how many people have come out to show support....

Everyone keep the support coming and do what you can 2 keep the game alive and playing everything else will fall into place as long as we have the players to back it up

l

I'm in. I can assist with all of the above and if I remember right, I still have my GenCon Event Organizer's login for their RUBI site as well. So I can get a hold of costs and the like.