What you failing to understand is that if the Path did not say "treat as having the destiny" the destiny would just sit there on the Path and it would do nothing until you complete the Path. But because you do treat it as if you have it then it can be targetted by effects that effect your destinies.

The only way past this is if the Path had a forbidding effect like "you cannot lose the destiny while your on this path" it does not say any forbidding effect take this as a example.

You are only focusing on the portion of the Path card that grants you the Destiny. You are completely ignoring the condition (the one that I keep emphasizing) that states that you have that Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ." That's as good as saying, "You cannot lose the Destiny." Why? Because you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ."

Show me the conditions where you can be on this Path without having the Destiny. These conditions must satisfy the condition of the Path where you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ."

In other words, how can you simultaneously be on the Path and have the Destiny that is guaranteed to you " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH " and be on the Path and NOT have the Destiny that is guaranteed to you " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH "?

You can't have it both ways. Either the card is true at all times or it isn't. There are no conditions listed on the card that state that you can be on the Path and not have the Destiny. The Path and the Destiny are one. The only way to lose the Destiny is to lose the Path.

Thats right there is no condtions listed on the card that forbids the loss of the destiny, the path does not say "the only way to lose the destiny is to lose the path" it says "you count as having the destiny so long as you are on the path" its as plain as day there is no guarantee because there is no forbidding effect that stops the discard.

But again Like i said looks like we have to agree to disagree ive explained it as best as anyone can.

Answer this question (which I have previously asked twice now, and which you have previously not answered twice now):

The Path guarantees that you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ." What game condition(s) exist(s) where you can be on the Path but not have the Destiny that is yours " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH "? Answer that question. Please. Show me how you can not have the Destiny that is guaranteed to you " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ." How does losing the Destiny fulfill and satisfy the condition of the Path where you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH "?

What you failing to understand is that if the Path did not say "treat as having the destiny" the destiny would just sit there on the Path and it would do nothing until you complete the Path. But because you do treat it as if you have it then it can be targetted by effects that effect your destinies.

The only way past this is if the Path had a forbidding effect like "you cannot lose the destiny while your on this path" it does not say any forbidding effect take this as a example.

You are only focusing on the portion of the Path card that grants you the Destiny. You are completely ignoring the condition (the one that I keep emphasizing) that states that you have that Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ." That's as good as saying, "You cannot lose the Destiny." Why? Because you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ."

Show me the conditions where you can be on this Path without having the Destiny. These conditions must satisfy the condition of the Path where you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ."

In other words, how can you simultaneously be on the Path and have the Destiny that is guaranteed to you " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH " and be on the Path and NOT have the Destiny that is guaranteed to you " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH "?

You can't have it both ways. Either the card is true at all times or it isn't. There are no conditions listed on the card that state that you can be on the Path and not have the Destiny. The Path and the Destiny are one. The only way to lose the Destiny is to lose the Path.

Thats right there is no condtions listed on the card that forbids the loss of the destiny, the path does not say "the only way to lose the destiny is to lose the path" it says "you count as having the destiny so long as you are on the path" its as plain as day there is no guarantee because there is no forbidding effect that stops the discard.

But again Like i said looks like we have to agree to disagree ive explained it as best as anyone can.

Answer this question (which I have previously asked twice now, and which you have previously not answered twice now):

The Path guarantees that you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ." What game condition(s) exist(s) where you can be on the Path but not have the Destiny that is yours " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH "? Answer that question. Please. Show me how you can not have the Destiny that is guaranteed to you " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ." How does losing the Destiny fulfill and satisfy the condition of the Path where you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH "?

And I have answered your questions twice now. The text "FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH" is not in itself a forbidding effect it does not protect the Destiny from being discarded by Queen Mab. Repeating the text does not somehow justify what you are saying the card does.

The losing of the Destiny does not fulfill and satisfy the conditions of the Path - instead the Path can lose the Destiny because players can have Paths and Destinies without one another and it does not say it cannot or can't be discarded on the Path card in question.

...

Also writing text IN RED and BOLD does not somehow enforce your reasoning or even help to explain your point of view. I'm sure like me others people can read the text just fine.

...

...

Also writing text IN RED and BOLD does not somehow enforce your reasoning or even help to explain your point of view. I'm sure like me others people can read the text just fine.

...

quite .

Personally I think this has gone on quite enough, we seem to be just repeating ourselves and we should allow others to post in with their thoughts.

What you failing to understand is that if the Path did not say "treat as having the destiny" the destiny would just sit there on the Path and it would do nothing until you complete the Path. But because you do treat it as if you have it then it can be targetted by effects that effect your destinies.

The only way past this is if the Path had a forbidding effect like "you cannot lose the destiny while your on this path" it does not say any forbidding effect take this as a example.

You are only focusing on the portion of the Path card that grants you the Destiny. You are completely ignoring the condition (the one that I keep emphasizing) that states that you have that Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ." That's as good as saying, "You cannot lose the Destiny." Why? Because you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ."

Show me the conditions where you can be on this Path without having the Destiny. These conditions must satisfy the condition of the Path where you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ."

In other words, how can you simultaneously be on the Path and have the Destiny that is guaranteed to you " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH " and be on the Path and NOT have the Destiny that is guaranteed to you " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH "?

You can't have it both ways. Either the card is true at all times or it isn't. There are no conditions listed on the card that state that you can be on the Path and not have the Destiny. The Path and the Destiny are one. The only way to lose the Destiny is to lose the Path.

Thats right there is no condtions listed on the card that forbids the loss of the destiny, the path does not say "the only way to lose the destiny is to lose the path" it says "you count as having the destiny so long as you are on the path" its as plain as day there is no guarantee because there is no forbidding effect that stops the discard.

But again Like i said looks like we have to agree to disagree ive explained it as best as anyone can.

Answer this question (which I have previously asked twice now, and which you have previously not answered twice now):

The Path guarantees that you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ." What game condition(s) exist(s) where you can be on the Path but not have the Destiny that is yours " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH "? Answer that question. Please. Show me how you can not have the Destiny that is guaranteed to you " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ." How does losing the Destiny fulfill and satisfy the condition of the Path where you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH "?

And I have answered your questions twice now. The text "FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH" is not in itself a forbidding effect it does not protect the Destiny from being discarded by Queen Mab. Repeating the text does not somehow justify what you are saying the card does.

The losing of the Destiny does not fulfill and satisfy the conditions of the Path - instead the Path can lose the Destiny because players can have Paths and Destinies without one another and it does not say it cannot or can't be discarded on the Path card in question.

Not THIS Path. Yes, Paths and Destinies generally operate in mutual exclusion from one another.

But not THIS Path.

THIS Path says, "Draw a Destiny and put it on this card. You count as having this Destiny for as long as you are on this Path ." (I'll keep posting it in bold underlined red text once you acknowledge that this text exists on this card. So far you have failed to do that.)

It doesn't say, "You count as having this Destiny for as long as you are on this Path ....but only so long as Queen Mab doesn't make you throw it away."

For as long as you are on the Wyrd Path you have the Destiny that you drew to accompany the Path. Nothing can take that from you. The Destiny is tied to the Path. If you have the Path, you have the Destiny.

This is further emphasized by the following condition of the Path: "When you reach the Meeting with Destiny space , you may pay 4 fate to gain the Destiny on this card."

You can't very well pay the 4 fate to gain the Destiny if you lost it. But since the Destiny is tied to the Path, you cannot lose the Destiny.

Uvatha, you're dead wrong.....again. You are ignoring the text of the card......again.

If you have the Wyrd Path, you have the Destiny that goes along with it " for as long as you are on the Path ."

Go establish your house rules that completely undermine the text of the card if you want.

And once more for good measure:

FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH

...

Also writing text IN RED and BOLD does not somehow enforce your reasoning or even help to explain your point of view. I'm sure like me others people can read the text just fine.

...

The emphasis was not for your sake, but for the sake of those who repeatedly ignore the emphasized text. You know, like Uvatha.

Consider it a visual representation of the metaphor of trying to beat the information into someone's head.

Lol Osbo, you gotta give up. Might as well try to convince a wall of... anything .

What you failing to understand is that if the Path did not say "treat as having the destiny" the destiny would just sit there on the Path and it would do nothing until you complete the Path. But because you do treat it as if you have it then it can be targetted by effects that effect your destinies.

The only way past this is if the Path had a forbidding effect like "you cannot lose the destiny while your on this path" it does not say any forbidding effect take this as a example.

You are only focusing on the portion of the Path card that grants you the Destiny. You are completely ignoring the condition (the one that I keep emphasizing) that states that you have that Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ." That's as good as saying, "You cannot lose the Destiny." Why? Because you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ."

Show me the conditions where you can be on this Path without having the Destiny. These conditions must satisfy the condition of the Path where you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ."

In other words, how can you simultaneously be on the Path and have the Destiny that is guaranteed to you " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH " and be on the Path and NOT have the Destiny that is guaranteed to you " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH "?

You can't have it both ways. Either the card is true at all times or it isn't. There are no conditions listed on the card that state that you can be on the Path and not have the Destiny. The Path and the Destiny are one. The only way to lose the Destiny is to lose the Path.

Thats right there is no condtions listed on the card that forbids the loss of the destiny, the path does not say "the only way to lose the destiny is to lose the path" it says "you count as having the destiny so long as you are on the path" its as plain as day there is no guarantee because there is no forbidding effect that stops the discard.

But again Like i said looks like we have to agree to disagree ive explained it as best as anyone can.

Answer this question (which I have previously asked twice now, and which you have previously not answered twice now):

The Path guarantees that you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ." What game condition(s) exist(s) where you can be on the Path but not have the Destiny that is yours " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH "? Answer that question. Please. Show me how you can not have the Destiny that is guaranteed to you " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ." How does losing the Destiny fulfill and satisfy the condition of the Path where you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH "?

And I have answered your questions twice now. The text "FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH" is not in itself a forbidding effect it does not protect the Destiny from being discarded by Queen Mab. Repeating the text does not somehow justify what you are saying the card does.

The losing of the Destiny does not fulfill and satisfy the conditions of the Path - instead the Path can lose the Destiny because players can have Paths and Destinies without one another and it does not say it cannot or can't be discarded on the Path card in question.

Not THIS Path. Yes, Paths and Destinies generally operate in mutual exclusion from one another.

But not THIS Path.

THIS Path says, "Draw a Destiny and put it on this card. You count as having this Destiny for as long as you are on this Path ." (I'll keep posting it in bold underlined red text once you acknowledge that this text exists on this card. So far you have failed to do that.)

It doesn't say, "You count as having this Destiny for as long as you are on this Path ....but only so long as Queen Mab doesn't make you throw it away."

For as long as you are on the Wyrd Path you have the Destiny that you drew to accompany the Path. Nothing can take that from you. The Destiny is tied to the Path. If you have the Path, you have the Destiny.

This is further emphasized by the following condition of the Path: "When you reach the Meeting with Destiny space , you may pay 4 fate to gain the Destiny on this card."

You can't very well pay the 4 fate to gain the Destiny if you lost it. But since the Destiny is tied to the Path, you cannot lose the Destiny.

Uvatha, you're dead wrong.....again. You are ignoring the text of the card......again.

If you have the Wyrd Path, you have the Destiny that goes along with it " for as long as you are on the Path ."

Go establish your house rules that completely undermine the text of the card if you want.

And once more for good measure:

FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH

THIS Path just says "you count as having the Destiny while you are on this path" but your saying "that because you are still on the path you cannot lose the Destiny" because by your reasoning its a part of the Path.. I get what your saying. I'm not ignoring it or pretending the text is not there. I'm totally acknowledging what the Path says.

Now I have established that, I still say that "having" and the Destiny being on the Path does not mean its immune to being discarded by some other effect that targets the Destiny. Can you understand what I'm saying? I understand what you are saying and believe it or not I can see where your coming from.

So without any more of this "Might as well try to convince a wall of... anything" and "trying to beat the information into someone's head" because its just plain petty and down right disrespectful (something I might add I have not done to you or even Joker2016) can we just agree to disagree on this matter (with respect).

What you failing to understand is that if the Path did not say "treat as having the destiny" the destiny would just sit there on the Path and it would do nothing until you complete the Path. But because you do treat it as if you have it then it can be targetted by effects that effect your destinies.

The only way past this is if the Path had a forbidding effect like "you cannot lose the destiny while your on this path" it does not say any forbidding effect take this as a example.

You are only focusing on the portion of the Path card that grants you the Destiny. You are completely ignoring the condition (the one that I keep emphasizing) that states that you have that Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ." That's as good as saying, "You cannot lose the Destiny." Why? Because you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ."

Show me the conditions where you can be on this Path without having the Destiny. These conditions must satisfy the condition of the Path where you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ."

In other words, how can you simultaneously be on the Path and have the Destiny that is guaranteed to you " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH " and be on the Path and NOT have the Destiny that is guaranteed to you " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH "?

You can't have it both ways. Either the card is true at all times or it isn't. There are no conditions listed on the card that state that you can be on the Path and not have the Destiny. The Path and the Destiny are one. The only way to lose the Destiny is to lose the Path.

Thats right there is no condtions listed on the card that forbids the loss of the destiny, the path does not say "the only way to lose the destiny is to lose the path" it says "you count as having the destiny so long as you are on the path" its as plain as day there is no guarantee because there is no forbidding effect that stops the discard.

But again Like i said looks like we have to agree to disagree ive explained it as best as anyone can.

Answer this question (which I have previously asked twice now, and which you have previously not answered twice now):

The Path guarantees that you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ." What game condition(s) exist(s) where you can be on the Path but not have the Destiny that is yours " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH "? Answer that question. Please. Show me how you can not have the Destiny that is guaranteed to you " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ." How does losing the Destiny fulfill and satisfy the condition of the Path where you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH "?

And I have answered your questions twice now. The text "FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH" is not in itself a forbidding effect it does not protect the Destiny from being discarded by Queen Mab. Repeating the text does not somehow justify what you are saying the card does.

The losing of the Destiny does not fulfill and satisfy the conditions of the Path - instead the Path can lose the Destiny because players can have Paths and Destinies without one another and it does not say it cannot or can't be discarded on the Path card in question.

Not THIS Path. Yes, Paths and Destinies generally operate in mutual exclusion from one another.

But not THIS Path.

THIS Path says, "Draw a Destiny and put it on this card. You count as having this Destiny for as long as you are on this Path ." (I'll keep posting it in bold underlined red text once you acknowledge that this text exists on this card. So far you have failed to do that.)

It doesn't say, "You count as having this Destiny for as long as you are on this Path ....but only so long as Queen Mab doesn't make you throw it away."

For as long as you are on the Wyrd Path you have the Destiny that you drew to accompany the Path. Nothing can take that from you. The Destiny is tied to the Path. If you have the Path, you have the Destiny.

This is further emphasized by the following condition of the Path: "When you reach the Meeting with Destiny space , you may pay 4 fate to gain the Destiny on this card."

You can't very well pay the 4 fate to gain the Destiny if you lost it. But since the Destiny is tied to the Path, you cannot lose the Destiny.

Uvatha, you're dead wrong.....again. You are ignoring the text of the card......again.

If you have the Wyrd Path, you have the Destiny that goes along with it " for as long as you are on the Path ."

Go establish your house rules that completely undermine the text of the card if you want.

And once more for good measure:

FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH

THIS Path just says "you count as having the Destiny while you are on this path" but your saying "that because you are still on the path you cannot lose the Destiny" because by your reasoning its a part of the Path.. I get what your saying. I'm not ignoring it or pretending the text is not there. I'm totally acknowledging what the Path says.

Now I have established that, I still say that "having" and the Destiny being on the Path does not mean its immune to being discarded by some other effect that targets the Destiny. Can you understand what I'm saying? I understand what you are saying and believe it or not I can see where your coming from.

So without any more of this "Might as well try to convince a wall of... anything" and "trying to beat the information into someone's head" because its just plain petty and down right disrespectful (something I might add I have not done to you or even Joker2016) can we just agree to disagree on this matter (with respect).

Yes, I can understand (and have been understanding) what you are saying. But you are wrong.

And here you misquoted the card. It doesn't say, "while you are on the path." It says, "FOR AS LONG AS you are on the Path." That means that for every moment that you are on that Path, regardless of what else happens to you, that Destiny belongs to you. If you are on the Path then you have the Destiny.

So once again, can you please show me a scenario where you are on the Path but don't have the Destiny? You can't. All you can do is make up rules about what it means and/or doesn't mean, all while misquoting the text and disregarding what it actually says.

This is why I have continued the emphasis. "FOR AS LONG AS" is pretty clear. It has the same effect as saying, "You cannot lose it."

What you failing to understand is that if the Path did not say "treat as having the destiny" the destiny would just sit there on the Path and it would do nothing until you complete the Path. But because you do treat it as if you have it then it can be targetted by effects that effect your destinies.

The only way past this is if the Path had a forbidding effect like "you cannot lose the destiny while your on this path" it does not say any forbidding effect take this as a example.

You are only focusing on the portion of the Path card that grants you the Destiny. You are completely ignoring the condition (the one that I keep emphasizing) that states that you have that Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ." That's as good as saying, "You cannot lose the Destiny." Why? Because you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ."

Show me the conditions where you can be on this Path without having the Destiny. These conditions must satisfy the condition of the Path where you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ."

In other words, how can you simultaneously be on the Path and have the Destiny that is guaranteed to you " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH " and be on the Path and NOT have the Destiny that is guaranteed to you " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH "?

You can't have it both ways. Either the card is true at all times or it isn't. There are no conditions listed on the card that state that you can be on the Path and not have the Destiny. The Path and the Destiny are one. The only way to lose the Destiny is to lose the Path.

Thats right there is no condtions listed on the card that forbids the loss of the destiny, the path does not say "the only way to lose the destiny is to lose the path" it says "you count as having the destiny so long as you are on the path" its as plain as day there is no guarantee because there is no forbidding effect that stops the discard.

But again Like i said looks like we have to agree to disagree ive explained it as best as anyone can.

Answer this question (which I have previously asked twice now, and which you have previously not answered twice now):

The Path guarantees that you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ." What game condition(s) exist(s) where you can be on the Path but not have the Destiny that is yours " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH "? Answer that question. Please. Show me how you can not have the Destiny that is guaranteed to you " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH ." How does losing the Destiny fulfill and satisfy the condition of the Path where you have the Destiny " FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH "?

And I have answered your questions twice now. The text "FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH" is not in itself a forbidding effect it does not protect the Destiny from being discarded by Queen Mab. Repeating the text does not somehow justify what you are saying the card does.

The losing of the Destiny does not fulfill and satisfy the conditions of the Path - instead the Path can lose the Destiny because players can have Paths and Destinies without one another and it does not say it cannot or can't be discarded on the Path card in question.

Not THIS Path. Yes, Paths and Destinies generally operate in mutual exclusion from one another.

But not THIS Path.

THIS Path says, "Draw a Destiny and put it on this card. You count as having this Destiny for as long as you are on this Path ." (I'll keep posting it in bold underlined red text once you acknowledge that this text exists on this card. So far you have failed to do that.)

It doesn't say, "You count as having this Destiny for as long as you are on this Path ....but only so long as Queen Mab doesn't make you throw it away."

For as long as you are on the Wyrd Path you have the Destiny that you drew to accompany the Path. Nothing can take that from you. The Destiny is tied to the Path. If you have the Path, you have the Destiny.

This is further emphasized by the following condition of the Path: "When you reach the Meeting with Destiny space , you may pay 4 fate to gain the Destiny on this card."

You can't very well pay the 4 fate to gain the Destiny if you lost it. But since the Destiny is tied to the Path, you cannot lose the Destiny.

Uvatha, you're dead wrong.....again. You are ignoring the text of the card......again.

If you have the Wyrd Path, you have the Destiny that goes along with it " for as long as you are on the Path ."

Go establish your house rules that completely undermine the text of the card if you want.

And once more for good measure:

FOR AS LONG AS YOU ARE ON THE PATH

THIS Path just says "you count as having the Destiny while you are on this path" but your saying "that because you are still on the path you cannot lose the Destiny" because by your reasoning its a part of the Path.. I get what your saying. I'm not ignoring it or pretending the text is not there. I'm totally acknowledging what the Path says.

Now I have established that, I still say that "having" and the Destiny being on the Path does not mean its immune to being discarded by some other effect that targets the Destiny. Can you understand what I'm saying? I understand what you are saying and believe it or not I can see where your coming from.

So without any more of this "Might as well try to convince a wall of... anything" and "trying to beat the information into someone's head" because its just plain petty and down right disrespectful (something I might add I have not done to you or even Joker2016) can we just agree to disagree on this matter (with respect).

Yes, I can understand (and have been understanding) what you are saying. But you are wrong.

And here you misquoted the card. It doesn't say, "while you are on the path." It says, "FOR AS LONG AS you are on the Path." That means that for every moment that you are on that Path, regardless of what else happens to you, that Destiny belongs to you. If you are on the Path then you have the Destiny.

So once again, can you please show me a scenario where you are on the Path but don't have the Destiny? You can't. All you can do is make up rules about what it means and/or doesn't mean, all while misquoting the text and disregarding what it actually says.

This is why I have continued the emphasis. "FOR AS LONG AS" is pretty clear. It has the same effect as saying, "You cannot lose it."

No not at all "for as long as you are on this path your count as having the Destiny" so you have the destiny thus its yours and thus its discarded when something targets your destiny. There is no difference (other than the wording) between "for as long as you are on the Path" and "while you are on this Path", in this regards. And sorry but in my haste I was paraphrasing the paths text before.

I'm not going to give you a scenario because there is no such scenario in the rules that covers this interaction between these two cards or any other cards that are the same or close to the same (accept the ones I have already posted) but you in turn cannot show me where it says "you cannot or can't have the Destiny discarded even though its on the path" because this is not in the rules either. Also I'm not "making up rules about what it means and/or doesn't mean" I'm reading the rules and cards text and doing what they say. I can easily say the same about you but I'm trying to be respectful.

And it not the same as "you cannot lose it" your interpreting the text totally wrong but like I said with respect its a good idea to just agree to disagree on this matter.

"FOR AS LONG AS" means just that. If you are on the Path, then you have the Destiny. If you no longer have the Destiny, then the guarantee of the Path is no longer being fulfilled.

You are adding conditions to the Path. You are interpreting it as saying, "For as long as you are on the Path....unless something else happens, in which case you can ignore the 'for as long as' portion of this card."

I am not the one making things up or adding things. I am taking the simple text of the card and demonstrating how it works. You are adding conditions to the card, openly acknowledging that you cannot demonstrate a way in which my interpretation holds true. In other words, you are incapable of falsifying my argument (other than saying "your [sic] interpreting the text totally wrong"). That's a sure sign that I am correct.

The readers of this thread will understand that you are wrong. The only place in existence where you are right is in your own head.

No, I will not agree to disagree with you. I will agree THAT we disagree, but I will not agree TO disagree. You are wrong. I am right. End of story.

And may I never be so foolish as to engage you in a rules debate again.

"FOR AS LONG AS" means just that. If you are on the Path, then you have the Destiny. If you no longer have the Destiny, then the guarantee of the Path is no longer being fulfilled.

You are adding conditions to the Path. You are interpreting it as saying, "For as long as you are on the Path....unless something else happens, in which case you can ignore the 'for as long as' portion of this card."

I am not the one making things up or adding things. I am taking the simple text of the card and demonstrating how it works. You are adding conditions to the card, openly acknowledging that you cannot demonstrate a way in which my interpretation holds true. In other words, you are incapable of falsifying my argument (other than saying "your [sic] interpreting the text totally wrong"). That's a sure sign that I am correct.

The readers of this thread will understand that you are wrong. The only place in existence where you are right is in your own head.

No, I will not agree to disagree with you. I will agree THAT we disagree, but I will not agree TO disagree. You are wrong. I am right. End of story.

And may I never be so foolish as to engage you in a rules debate again.

In that regard then its OK to agree that we disagree. I will let the readers make up their own minds though.

As for "I never be so foolish as to engage you in a rules debate again" I think the intention was to find the right way to play and discuss the rules in that way. Its totally up to you if you do not continue to discuss the rules and give your input of course.

That is the intent when reasonable folks have a debate about something that is debatable. But sometimes there's just no arguing with foolishness.

That is the intent when reasonable folks have a debate about something that is debatable. But sometimes there's just no arguing with foolishness.

And if the debate cannot be resovled despite respectful debate. Then we have to agree that we disagree.

Other than the "foolishness" part I totally agree.

I think we reached the end of this discussion 10 or 15 poats back. But if you want more views on the matter I'd say that, by the rules, I think Uvatha is right, his argumentation is way better at least. That said I think the path should probably work the other way but is debatable due to poor wording. In our games it would at least, but then we usually choose the softer solution in a rule debate. And quite frankly, the path is useless without the destiny and I don't like that idea.

Nonsense

I think we reached the end of this discussion 10 or 15 poats back. But if you want more views on the matter I'd say that, by the rules, I think Uvatha is right, his argumentation is way better at least. That said I think the path should probably work the other way but is debatable due to poor wording. In our games it would at least, but then we usually choose the softer solution in a rule debate. And quite frankly, the path is useless without the destiny and I don't like that idea.

Yep that's understandable. But look at the bright side - you get a Destiny:) but you have to maybe lose life .

I agree that the discussion ended 10 - 15 posts back that's why I was trying to agree to disagree.

I think we reached the end of this discussion 10 or 15 poats back. But if you want more views on the matter I'd say that, by the rules, I think Uvatha is right, his argumentation is way better at least. That said I think the path should probably work the other way but is debatable due to poor wording. In our games it would at least, but then we usually choose the softer solution in a rule debate. And quite frankly, the path is useless without the destiny and I don't like that idea.

Could you please explain how losing the Destiny given by this Path satisfies the text of the Path which says that the Destiny is yours "for as long as you are on the Path"? Uvatha kept coming around and saying that the text of that Path was irrelevant. He is wrong. So maybe you can shed some light. The text says, "for as long as you are on the Path." Since you believe Uvatha's argument to be correct, I'm hoping that you can answer the glaring piece of evidence that demonstrates that Uvatha is wrong. How can you not have the Destiny that the Path says you can have "for as long as you are on the Path"? How can you be on the Path but not have the Destiny?

I can try to explain and give you my view of the matter although I think that you won't be satisfied with it as I think that Uvatha is reading the rules correctly and has given adequate explanations of them.

You're on the path which gives you a destiny. If you leave the path you'll lose the destiny, which is clearly stated on the card. These statements we all agree on. It's the rest of the text that is flawed. Nowhere on the card it says that you can't lose the destiny in other ways than leaving the path, which is what Uvatha is trying to explain. Then again the path is useless without the destiny. So there should either be stated if the destiny is bound to the path and impossible to lose or what happens to the path if you lose the destiny (i.e. 'Discard the path', 'draw a new destiny' or something else).

As I said before I believe Uvatha's reasoning is correct (as the card is written) but that the wording of the card is flawed and should be amended so that it's beyond any doubt that the destiny can't be lost.

I can try to explain and give you my view of the matter although I think that you won't be satisfied with it as I think that Uvatha is reading the rules correctly and has given adequate explanations of them.

You're on the path which gives you a destiny. If you leave the path you'll lose the destiny, which is clearly stated on the card. These statements we all agree on. It's the rest of the text that is flawed. Nowhere on the card it says that you can't lose the destiny in other ways than leaving the path, which is what Uvatha is trying to explain. Then again the path is useless without the destiny. So there should either be stated if the destiny is bound to the path and impossible to lose or what happens to the path if you lose the destiny (i.e. 'Discard the path', 'draw a new destiny' or something else).

As I said before I believe Uvatha's reasoning is correct (as the card is written) but that the wording of the card is flawed and should be amended so that it's beyond any doubt that the destiny can't be lost.

You say that you agree with Uvatha in that there is nothing on the card that says that you can't lose the Destiny. What about the word "for as long as you are on the path"? How can the Destiny be yours "for as long as you are on the Path" if you can be on the Path and not have the Destiny? Those two are in absolute contradiction with each other. And the best argument that you and Uvatha can come up with is, "Nothing says that you can't lose it." While the words "you can't lose the Destiny" don't appear on the card, the words "for as long as you are on the Path" are on the card. The only way to justify losing the Destiny is to gloss over and change the meaning of those words--which is exactly what both you and Uvatha have done.

The plain and simple meaning of the card--which completely matches the words that are written on the card and requires no additional explanation--is that the Destiny is yours "for as long as you are on the Path." Lose the Path, lose the Destiny.

And the only way to complete the Meeting with Destiny is to still have the Destiny in your possession--which is guaranteed by the words "for as long as you are on the Path."

So answer this question: What does the phrase "for as long as you are on the path" mean if it does not mean "for as long as you are on the path"?

Maybe it means what you say it means or it's simply saying that you don't keep the destiny if you leave the path.

So, Osbo, I play as you do but it's very questionable. And, to be honest, I don't think it matters what is right, too many things in this huge game is unclear. As long as everybody around the table agrees it doesn't matter what is a house rule and what is not.

Maybe it means what you say it means or it's simply saying that you don't keep the destiny if you leave the path.

Allow me to rephrase that statement:

"Maybe it means exactly what's written on the card, or maybe it means something that's not written on the card at all."

Seriously. That's what yours and Uvatha's argument boils down to. I'm going with what's written on the card. You're going with a theory that rejects what is written on the card and imposes other conditions in its place. That's why I'm at such a loss as to how you two can continue thinking that you're right. I back up my claims with the actual text of the card. You back up your claims with your own ideas of what the card should say, despite the fact that your own ideas are in contradiction with the text of the card.

So, Osbo, I play as you do but it's very questionable. And, to be honest, I don't think it matters what is right, too many things in this huge game is unclear. As long as everybody around the table agrees it doesn't matter what is a house rule and what is not.

Then why bother talking about it at all?

Maybe it means what you say it means or it's simply saying that you don't keep the destiny if you leave the path.

Maybe it means what you say it means or it's simply saying that you don't keep the destiny if you leave the path.

Allow me to rephrase that statement:

"Maybe it means exactly what's written on the card, or maybe it means something that's not written on the card at all."

No, I think Rigmasters first statement does not need to be rephrased, it does not "exactly" say the Destiny cannot be discarded thus its "what you say it means" its a interpretation or better yet your saying "its implied" but when you read the Golden Rule (page 15 main rule book). it "clearly" says "any instance where a card’s effect indicates " so what does "indicate" mean?

"to point out; to show"

So re-phasing that with indicates meaning is "where a card’s effect points out or shows" so this (and I think its rather fitting) exactly shows that the text of Wyrd Path is not a forbidding effect and thus does not forbid the discarding of the Destiny it has when with a character.

Of course this is just my opinion and of course your always free to counter argue but all I ask is when and if you do can you do so with clear text from the rules that enforces your counter argument (example no name calling or disrespect).

Then why bother talking about it at all?

Because Rigmaster is giving his opinion on the rule issue and his opinion is worth just as much as anyone else's no matter what' or who he is agreeing or disagreeing too.

Hello people,

your protracted, antagonistic and ultimately fruitless discussions have forced me to temporarily abandon my self-imposed exile and post here again, mainly to say that I'm profoundly sorry for the spirit under which Talisman Rules Questions are debated in this forum.

There's no need to condemn the personal attacks that have been made, since they are absolutely out of place, but also this endless rebuttal with barely no rules quotation or case analysis won't help you find a solution. There is only a system to get out of grey areas in Talisman: analyse the problem, look for a rule that may address it, or search for an applicable or similar situation (or FAQ), otherwise recognise the problem is unsolvable without an official clarification and that it needs a small house rule.

This is best achieved when people work together, instead of digging trenches and raising barbwires.

This is not the case, however:

Wyrd Path

Draw a Destiny and put it on this card. You count as having this Destiny for as long as you are on this Path.
When you reach the Meeting with Destiny space, you may pay 4 fate to gain the Destiny on this card.

Queen Mab

The fickle Queen Mab rips apart your destiny, weaving it into something tattered and mad before vanishing to the discard pile. Discard all of your Destiny cards and gain 1 Destiny . Then:
Darkbound: Lose 1 life for each light fate you have, and lose all of your dark fate.
Lightbound: Lose 1 life for each dark fate you have, and lose all of your light fate.

The sentence in italics on Wyrd Path uses the word "have", which is a game term used on several cards in Talisman. Like in English language, "having" a card means that it is in your possession. Thus, while on Wyrd Path, a character "counts as having" the Destiny, and the Destiny is targeted by effects that targets Destinies owned by the character (all of "your" Destiny cards ), including Queen Mab and Forge Destiny's darkbound effect. If the Destiny is lost or stolen, you still keep the Wyrd Path until you leave the Woodland or replace the Path Card. You cannot resolve the Destiny effect when at Meeting with Destiny, but that doesn't prevent you to go there if you want to exit the Woodland.

By the way, it was probably written "You count as having this Destiny" instead of "You will have this Destiny for as long as you are on this Path" to make it less confusing for people who don't recognise the word "have" as a keyword. "count as having" should have made you think a bit more.

To make a different example, the Genie Follower "has" the 3 Spells, not the character who has the Genie. This is why Magical Vortex cannot discard the Genie's Spells, like stated in the FAQ.

Now, you're free to continue your arguments here and on other threads, but I (and many others) would like to see you discuss in a more relaxed, concise and civil manner.

Hello people,

your protracted, antagonistic and ultimately fruitless discussions have forced me to temporarily abandon my self-imposed exile and post here again, mainly to say that I'm profoundly sorry for the spirit under which Talisman Rules Questions are debated in this forum.

There's no need to condemn the personal attacks that have been made, since they are absolutely out of place, but also this endless rebuttal with barely no rules quotation or case analysis won't help you find a solution. There is only a system to get out of grey areas in Talisman: analyse the problem, look for a rule that may address it, or search for an applicable or similar situation (or FAQ), otherwise recognise the problem is unsolvable without an official clarification and that it needs a small house rule.

This is best achieved when people work together, instead of digging trenches and raising barbwires.

This is not the case, however:

Wyrd Path

Draw a Destiny and put it on this card. You count as having this Destiny for as long as you are on this Path.

When you reach the Meeting with Destiny space, you may pay 4 fate to gain the Destiny on this card.

Queen Mab

The fickle Queen Mab rips apart your destiny, weaving it into something tattered and mad before vanishing to the discard pile. Discard all of your Destiny cards and gain 1 Destiny . Then:

Darkbound: Lose 1 life for each light fate you have, and lose all of your dark fate.

Lightbound: Lose 1 life for each dark fate you have, and lose all of your light fate.

The sentence in italics on Wyrd Path uses the word "have", which is a game term used on several cards in Talisman. Like in English language, "having" a card means that it is in your possession. Thus, while on Wyrd Path, a character "counts as having" the Destiny, and the Destiny is targeted by effects that targets Destinies owned by the character (all of "your" Destiny cards ), including Queen Mab and Forge Destiny's darkbound effect. If the Destiny is lost or stolen, you still keep the Wyrd Path until you leave the Woodland or replace the Path Card. You cannot resolve the Destiny effect when at Meeting with Destiny, but that doesn't prevent you to go there if you want to exit the Woodland.

By the way, it was probably written "You count as having this Destiny" instead of "You will have this Destiny for as long as you are on this Path" to make it less confusing for people who don't recognise the word "have" as a keyword. "count as having" should have made you think a bit more.

To make a different example, the Genie Follower "has" the 3 Spells, not the character who has the Genie. This is why Magical Vortex cannot discard the Genie's Spells, like stated in the FAQ.

Now, you're free to continue your arguments here and on other threads, but I (and many others) would like to see you discuss in a more relaxed, concise and civil manner.

"Have" is not the issue. I think that should have been pretty clear by all of the times that I emphasized the words "for as long as you are on the Path."

I fully get that it belongs to you. It is in your possession.

But it is also attached to the Path. It is yours--that is, in your possession--because you are on the Path.

The issue here is the condition of ownership. If the words "for as long as you are on the Path" do not actually mean "for as long as you are on the Path," then those words shouldn't be written there.

And, as I said previously, if this does mean that the Destiny can be targeted, upon completion of whatever targets it the Destiny is immediately returned to your possession. Why? Because of the condition of ownership.

Uvatha has been railing on the fact that there is nothing on the card that states that you cannot lose it. But the same argument holds true to the other end of the spectrum. There is nothing on the card that states that you CAN lose it.

But what IS stated on the card is the condition that this Destiny is in your possession "for as long as you are on the Path."

If you are on the Path, you have the Destiny. That's what the simple, plain, basic reading of the words on the card state. If that's not what is intended, change the card.

I don't know, perhaps a lesson in English prepositional phrases is necessary. "For as long as" creates a condition where the preceding statement holds true until the condition is no longer valid. That's what that prepositional phrase means. Unless there is another condition listed that negates those words (which there isn't in this case), you cannot invalidate the condition.

I realize that almost every else will bow down to your word on this one, but not me. You're wrong. English grammar says so.