Ok, here's a new one - the first test of a concept I've been trying to make work for a while now. It's a herald that you can kill.

Now, what I'd like you guys to do is wrack your brains for any ways in whcih this won't work. Can anyone think of any items, mythos cards, investigators etc. which 'break' the mechanism?

Quick question: After you roll two successes against that thing, the combat ends right? If you roll more, do you still add the Stamina or is the maximum "damage" you can inflit on it limited to two per combat?

The combat doesn't end once you've got two successes.

The combat is meant to work exactly like a normal combat, except that the Dweller isn't defeated until you've accumulated a total of however-many successes (six or eight or ten or whatever). So if you got five successes with your first combat check, that'd be five tokens on the dweller, then it'd hit you for three stamina damage, then you can keep going as long as you want - but obviously if you can't get a total of quite a lot of successes across two or three rounds, you'd going to have to flee or go to hospital. Then of course someone else can step in and finish the thing off (which might mean waiting for it to 'reappear' of course).

The 'two toughness' on the monster trophy is basically irrelevent, but I can't find an option in Strange Eons whihc lets you set toughness to 'Special'.

Ahh, Cool.

How would the Red Sign work with this thing? Well if its just a regular monster with just more HP, i dont think that there is a way to break it. All it takes is a bit of common sense. As in any "Return all monsters in this or that particular street to the cup or to the Box" type cards would have to mentioned on the herald sheet as returning the monster on the sheet instead (unless you want it to be immune to those), but I think anyone would see that it's supposed to be returned to the sheet and never back to the box or the cup.

OoOOo: Could you throw it in a Dunwich Vortex using the implant suggestion spell? Or could it kill itself that way?

Also: (in relation to Arkham Horror) What in the world is a troglodyte? I dont remember those being a monster.

The Red Sign would be useless against this. It would lower the Dweller's toughness, but you're not really rolling against its toughness, so it wouldn't help. For practical purposes, it is impossible to actually 'pass' a combat check against the Dweller, because it simply isn't defeated. The only way to get rid of it is to amass the required tokens on the herald and trigger the ability whcih sends the whole lot back into the box.

I think the 'Spawn' rule gets me out of most other problems - so if someone manages to remove the Dweller from the board using some clever means (like a vortex), it would just go back to its home on the herald itself, and then re-appear next monster surge.

Troglodytes are another monster I made up - I haven't posted them yet because I haven't worked out exactly what I want them to do. Ignore them for the moment.

Incidentally, the reason I wasn't worried about the Dweller having a toughness value was partly that the Dweller does work as an ordinary monster on its own, if you just want to add it to the cup and not use the herald. However I may have to forego that luxury in order to make it clearer how it will work.

Troglodytes are those shelled creatures we always find folsoles of right? I could see them having two thoughness, 1-2 Sanity damage, low horror modfier, either physical imune/ resitance with a neg 1-2 comabt modifier a neg 3 without a res/ imun and 3 Stamina damage...

That's trilobites.

'Troglodyte' is a word for anything that lives underground or in a cave, so I'm imagining degenerate half-human creatures, like in Lovecraft's The Beast in the Cave or The Rats in the Walls . I was going to make a few cards which set up troglodytes as a sort of 'alternative cultist', i.e. a common type of 'blank slate' monster which various heralds/AOs gave boosts or abilities to. They'd have an easy horror test, an easy combat check, and be Elusive. I may never get around to making many cards that 'use' them, though.

First, really cool Herald and mechanics. As to the monster token itself, you should probably just make it a spawn monster. I know you say to treat it as such, but I could see confusion arising from the lack of a red dot. For the toughness, why is it 2? From what you've said the toughness is utterly irrelevant, but 1 makes more sense as a 'basic' number than 2. The mere presence of the second blood drop is likely to require multiple rereads and checking your statements here.

Also, weren't the servant creatures in the story referred to as Troglodytes at one point? I know they don't officially have a name but the word has certainly come up in Lovecraftian fiction, I believe.

His herald says to treat it as a spawn monster, so that does solve most problems. I dont have the rules with me, but i remember there being a passage about Spawns and Vortices. At least its in a FAQ somewhere.

As for the toughness of two or one or what-ever, there's realy nothing we can do about that, which makes it pretty annoying. But then again, it is a unique concept, like a mini-AO so that's not a surprise.

In my honest opinion, the monster should be stronger Random throw of a die before you fight to determine some of its powers? Give it some regeneration so that people cant ignore it after they attack it. If you put those on the herald sheet it'll be stronger as a herald, but still (relatively) weak as a regular monster if players choose to play that way.

To solve the problem of the toughness once and for all, give it as much toughness as you think it should have as a regular monster, then on the herald sheet put down clearly "When the dweller is the herald, ignore it's toughness value and apply this rule instead: ------Rest of the ability-------"

thats not what your asking for though! your asking for ways to break it. Like i said, I personally cant think of any. Maybe some exhibit items can do something to it, but I doubt it. Seeing as its like a Mini-ancient one, in that it takes several rounds of combat to beat it and that you would get multiple "upkeeps" (to change weapons but not to refresh them) there shouldnt be any problems

One spell that could allow you to beat it would be "Life Steal", which despite only giving you +3 combat, quickly negated by its' modifier, it allows you to drain successes into stamina. So if you were to roll three successes every round agaisnt the thing, you'd stay alive while killing it. But i suppose thats not realy a problem.

I have been rambling, but I think i have something. Not too sure if the Spawn rules take this into account, and its pretty convulted. Odds are its never gonna happen realy. and if it does, its subverted by returning the monster to the sheet: there's a corruption that allows you to trade a monster from the city with one from the outskirts. Would that be a problem? There's a spell that lets you move a monster from the outskirts to the cup.

Again, this is stuff that can be solved using common sense. If a person understands the point of this herald, then they wont try to screw it over that way but will just move it back to the from the board to the sheet and vice versa.

So I honestly think its fine and dandy idea, and it has slightly inspired me into creating another herald-monster that I might post, if I can figure out anything other then it's name.

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On the Horror in Clay: thats a Greeeeeeat herald, I think you should flesh it out a bit more: the story it came from is epic. A monster-herald there would be cool, with still-as-a-statue horror coming to life and wandering the town, hunting for food

Saldre said:

Cheers - really good feedback, Saldre and TheMessage.

Saldre, you're probably right about the monster itself needing to be more dangerous. Also, to really mess with people, I'll put in an ability on the herald which removes one of the stamina tokens every Mythos phase, so you can't just take your time over it.

Steal life is obviously a good spell against this thing, because this is the one combat where you really need to regain some stamina in order to be able to see the combat through to the end. Of course your chances still aren't that good; what's really needed is a group effort.

The 'Spawn' rules says that Spawn monsters can't ever go to the outskirts - which I think means you couldn't use that Corruption on the Dweller. Even if you could, all it would do is sit in the outskirts until a monster surge removed it, or until the outskirts were emptied, and in either case it would just go back to the herald and then re-appear later. Getting the Dweller off the board is not only difficult, it's usually pointless. The big threat (I tihnk everyone will agree) is the herald's gate-modifier ability, and in order to get rid of that, you need the monster to be on the board so you can attack it.

A "Mini Ancient One" is exactly what this is meant to be - a sort of mid-game 'boss', in the videogame sense. I am working on a couple of others that use the same rules.

Ok here's a second version which ought to be a bit clearer. If you're lucky enough to be able to tackle it very early in the game, it'll be quite easy, but the chances are good that it'll have built up a few extra stamina tokens before you're properly equipped to deal with it (plus, it only appears when there's a monster surge).

The 'star' for the toughness has been very crudely cut-and-pasted on to the exported image, but I have no better idea. I have also put my GIMP madskillz to better use by turning the sky behind the Dweller from Earth-blue to a much more appropriate Martian-pink.

If anyone cares, this monster is from a Clark Ashton Smith story of the same name: www.eldritchdark.com/writings/short-stories/55/the-dweller-in-the-gulf

I am going to have to pull out this story and read it again.

I rather like how you had the toughness at twice the investigators. Now, if you kept that an added a stamina point per gate surge this herald gets really nasty.

I am going to try him out, but instead of delaying investigators I am going to have them be lost in time and space. That ought to create some fun tension.

Just don't play Yoggy with that rule

Dark Pharaoh, meet your friends: (for extremely sadistic people, play with all the mask heralds against Nyarlathotep. it's illegal, and you would lose anyway)

Wow Kroen! You are a one man creation factory.

I was hoping someone(s) might be able to provide some suggestions, for an idea that has been dancing off the inside of my skull for a few years.

Yog-Sothoth seems like the nearest thing to an omnipotent being in Lovecraft's world, with his mastery over time and space. I've been searching for some mechanic to indicate this through increasing time and space distortions during an Arkham Horror game, as it Doom Track increases. By the time Yog-Sothoth has manifestated Arkham conceivable could be a random paradox of time blizzards and overlapping dimensions. Wild times in the old town tonight. It would make the Doctor sick, but, alas I haven't had much success capturing this scaling chaos.

I love the idea of making Masks into Heralds (Actually working on an expansion like that myself). For the most part they seem fairly interesting and thematic.

The Black Man is quite insane, with an almost guaranteed Terror jump on turn 1 and many more throughout the game, plus spellcasters need to avoid the streets for the most part. One strange thing is that unlike the others, his 'My True Power' ability becomes more tame the more Masks are in play, as it reduces the dice rolled and thus the number of possible failures. If you reverse that it would make more sense.

The Skinless One is also monstrous, but you probably knew that.

The Message said:

Thanks, and ofcours you're right, every mask should add a die, not reduce one. My mistake. And for the Skinless One I meant "1 success per combat check" not per the entire battle.

I personally believe The Beast is the most powerful herald. Makes every monster insane ly difficult to kill.

Hey

Lemmingsonsunday,

Well You could make it so that with every doom token added on his track (or with more gates open), there's an added chance of an investigator drawing his encounter from a random encounter deck from another random location (as he distorts space). He could force investigators to draw Other-World encounters when in a neighbourhood with an open gate as the dimensions fuse together and finally he can delay investigatorsskip turns as people lose track of time. Or even worse, draw two mythos and resolve them both as time speeds up, or skip several of them (would screw over some special abilities and some spells) and resolve one that's further ahead. I assume that Yog will be played with dunwhich, and that particular herald What your suggestion should probably be a Scenario, because I dont quite see Yog being a herald (Unless, with his freaky time powers, he heralds himself )

ps: It could be along the lines of, before you have an encounter throw a die and add +1 to the result for every open gate. On a success, check the chart below

-If you are in a location in Arkham, draw a random mythos card and check where the gate is opening. Have an encounter as if you were there

-If you are in the street, throw a dice. On a failure, time seems to have moved much faster then you did. Skip your next turn (as to avoid rolling again, which would have happened if you were delayed)

- If you are in a neigherbood with an open gate, draw an other world encounter as if you were in the other world portrayed on the gate

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For the Masks herald, Great idea, seems you have also inspired me into creating my own versions when i get the time! **** finals. I like the "My True Glory' ability being differant for each Mask, and i especially like the idea of playing them all together (With the dark Pharaoh ) Tough i doubt I ever will, nobody would go for it! (Cant wait to see Themessage's version of these heralds)

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For the Dweller, the added regeneration ability makes him realy cool. I also like the fact that he moves AND triggers his special ability, unlike most special ability monsters. Tough I do lament the fact that you cant use him as a stand-alone monster anymore, now that he has a * Stamina.

Sothis added this minutes before I did, but He's right, You could have him do more as an actual Herald, all of the other ones are considerably stronger, especially since they arent even on the field

Dkw's Mirror Herald with the Jabberwock are pretty cool, and Yours ressembles that. But I dont think thats what you were after, no? You should probably give the monsters more special abilities that dont trigger if he's on the sheet, but devastate people on the board. i havent read the story yet, but after I do, i probably will be able to suggest stuff

Great idea on Dweller. Although I have one suggestion: make it do something. Right now all it does is make gates harder to close, and shows up as a monster now and then. There's no real reason to worry about killing it at all. You could just ignore it because it has almost no effect on the game. Its movement ability is kind of annoying, but it will only happen once or twice per game tops.

Give it an ability or two so it has something more than the gate modifier. I'm sure there must be something thematic that the game could use.

Hrm... Consider combining Impossible Strength, Blackest Night, Unnatural Agility, My True Glory (from The Beast and The Black Man), The Offer (I guess, I wasn't too impressed by any of the effects of The Bloated Woman), I like The Horrible Truth, but I would want to see it coupled with text that forbade investigators from retiring unless they had a total of 4 madness/injury cards. Combine these into one Avatar and I would be impressed by your evil :'D (and determined to try it out (possibly with my modified Nyarlethotep that places masks as spawn monsters when gates open and surge). Now that would be a fun challenge :'D

Sothis said:

Hmmm, you might be right. I thought that setting all gate modifiers to (-3) was pretty difficult, but not everyone has the same experience of the game I guess, and I suppose it would be possible to ignore. Then again, I quite like that idea that it's a trade-off. Unlike other heralds (whcih you're stuck with), this one can be removed permanently, although you have to put some effort into doing it, so it's a question of whether you think the herald is enough of a pain to make it worth putting the effort into 'killing' it.

Any ideas for the additional ability? I've got about one line of space left, if I cut the Troglodyte-boosting ability. Since the Dweller in the Gulf is an alien from Mars, I wanted its abilities to be related to gates and other worlds.

There is one very nasty other world-related ability which I've been thinking about, but I couldn't find the right herald/AO to use it on. How's this: "Whenever an investigator draws an Other World encounter card, he or she must resolve all three encounters in sequence, not just the appropriate one." That'll put some hair on your chest, oh yes...

I'd hate to steal your idea, not that i think it would count, but i would put that on Lemming's Yog's time and space bending Herald as the encounter if an investigator is in another world (Only place i didnt mention)

I think this guy should have a more horrific Effect on the actual town. What about when he appears at a surging gate, randomly destroy (with a rubble token) either the location he appears at, or a random location in the neighbourhood? It would make investigators want to kill him fast before he shuts down half the map.

But i havent read the story yet, so i cant give you anything realy thematic.

You've got plenty of room. Just don't put all the line spaces in there (especially after each title). My Cthulhu herald had -3 for all gates but also had three other abilities, plus flavor text and quotes. It wasn't too hard or anything, -3 gates are tough but that's not much of a change to the game if that's all it is. I like heralds to have a real "feel" to them, so they need to change the game in a noticeable way. And it has to be themed!

I like the OW encounter idea. You could make it a bit easier by executing two of the three on each card and see how it plays. All three would be fun, but you'd have to playtest to see if it caused investigators to fail too often. Add it to the herald and you'll have a good one!

Saldre said:

Hmmm...I think either of those abilities would take a few too many words to explain. I could just use the Shudde M'ell rubble tokens, but it's a bit clumsy.

Sothis: I really don't think I do have plenty of room. The line spaces are just the ones created by the heading tags. I'm a bit of a stickler for minimalist phrasing, and I certainly don't want there to be more than three 'headings' on the herald. And there are limits to what sorts of abilities I can clump together under the same heading. Thanks for the feedback anyway - I'm still considering the options.

Regarding theme, here's the plot of the Dweller in the Gulf story, summarized: three astronaut explorers wander into a cave on mars. They find a strange idol depicting an unknown creature, being worshipped by a race of underground morlock-type things. Then the creature itself appears; a huge ancient eyeless tortoise-beetle-armadillo thing. It has an aura of sleepiness around it, which makes the astronauts unable to resist. It extends two long tongues, and plucks out and eats the astronauts' eyes. It drags the blind astronauts down into the depths of Mars to their doom. The end.

The idea of the 'Other Worlds delayed' ability on the Dweller monster was that it represents the 'soporific aura' that the creature in the story has. However I could just apply that to everyone - so it delays all investigators when it moves.

haha, thats great, now to further delay this essay in order to read the story right away.

Hmm, so were looking for stuff like that, eh?

The sleep aura is very cool.

What about it luring investigators towards it? after Upkeep, all investigators move two streets towards it.

Then it could have an "Eyes plucked out" type thing, where any investigator in an adjascent street must draw an injury. Or lose a stamina.