Orcs - Too Powerful? Too Fast? Weenie deck beats all!

By FiendishDevil, in Warhammer Invasion Deck Building

Orcs are ridiculously powerful. I have been play testing several deck builds using 2x Core and 3x Skavenblight. It seems as if Orc Rushes cannot be stopped unless you draw a God Hand. The problem with this is that every Orc Hand is a good hand, whereas Dwarf, Empire, and Chaos hands can be hit or miss (in terms of speed). Most of the time, I've managed to be able to burn a zone within 3 turns with Orcs and continue pushing offense for a win by turn 5. Orc synergy with itself is just way too good. Not to mention...there are tons of possible "God Hands" with Orcs.


As request here is my decklist.

Orc Units

3x Spider Riders

3x Lobber Crew

3x Squig Herders

3x Clan Rats

3x Crooked Teef Goblins

3x Followers of Mork

2x Ironclaw's Horde

2x Urguck

2x Grimgor Ironhide

Orc Tactics/Support

3x We'z Bigga!

3x Favour of Mork

3x Choppa

2x Rip Dere 'Eads Off!

2x Totem of Gork

2x Grimgor's Camp

2x Troll Vomit

2x Waaagh!

2x Smash `Em All!

1x Pillage

1x Smash-Go-Boom!

Neutral Cards

3x Clan Rats

2x Warp Lightning Cannon

1x Greyseer Thanquol

How to Use the Deck

You will be playing most of your cards directly into the Battlezone. You will pretty much ignore the Kingdom Zone, instead opting for Quest Zone.

The only Orc cards that go to Kingdom Zone are: Lobber Crew, Grimgor's Camp, and possibly a Development

For the Quest Zone, all your Squig Herders will go there, and possibly Follower's of Mork and a Development.

Using the Skaven

Clan Rats will be played into Kingdom or Quest Zones, one in each preferably. When your Kingdom Phase is about to end, corrupt a Clan Rat to give a Clan Rat in the Quest zone a power boost and thus drawing an extra card. Greyseer Thanquol can be played into Kingdom or Quest, once again, Quest taking preference.

Using Rip Dere 'Eads Off

You use this amazing card to bring in an Ironclaw Horde for that quick one turn push or to get into play Grimgor Ironhide for a turn. If you play Grimgor as a Development in your Quest or Kingdom Zone, when he gets revealed, he destroys the the supports and developments on both sides in that zone. You can also set Grimgor into your Quest Zone as a Development, then at the end of your Kingdom Phase, use Rip Dere 'Eads Off to both destroy enemy Quest Zone and draw extra cards (revealing him in your QZ won't hurt you since you have no supports there, only units). Why no Bloodthirsters? Because it's too situational. You need both Bloodthirst and Rip Dere 'Eads off. I'd never be able to pay for a Bloodthirster with normal resources, but I could afford a Grimgor or a Ironclaw.

Card Draw and Resources

As stated before, Lobber Crews and Grimgor's Camp go to the Kingdom zone, with the low cost curve of this deck, you never need that much. Lobber Crews are great since you can sacrifice them to force the enemy to lose a unit. Great way to put pressure on. You don't really need the resources, and it hurts them more than it hurts you.

Don't forget Urguck. You can play two We'z Bigger on him to put him into play for 1 resource and 3 loyalty. Which is just 3 total if you have no cards out. Then use his damage as more resources to bring in two 1 cost weenies or equip Urguck with Choppas. Also, don't forget the infinite Followers of Mork/Urguck combo. Urguck in play, Play Followers of Mork, damage Urguck for 2. Spend 2 damage to bring in another Followers, damage again, then spend 2 more damage to bring in whatever you want...

As far as the card draw. We'z Bigger on Squig Herders or Followers of Mork damaging Squig Herders or themselves will allow your Squig Herders to rake in 2 additional cards per Quest Phase. Cards are your friend, bigger hand means better odds of multiple turn rushes.

Offensive Combos

Waaagh!, Totem of Gork, Choppas. With three units in your Battlefield, you can do excess of 10 damage easily. Don't forget Greyseer can attack from anywhere.

Your Warp Lightning Cannons are great for preparing for an attack. Just make sure to put it on a unit with 2 health to prevent easy 1 damage pings (Urguck, Followers of Mork, Grimgor, or Ironclaw's Horde)

Your Warp Lightning Cannons are also great for CORRUPTING the enemy. That Dwarven beefcake with toughness in your way? Corrupt and burn. Counterstrike annoying you? Corrupt and burn.

Destruction

Troll Vomit: You'll rarely use this. It's a back up incase your rush has stalled.

Smash 'Em All!: Quest? Really? Yea. It's just incase your rush has stalled and also a great way to attract the enemy into attacking your Quest Zone.

Smash-Go-Boom: Late game development destruction. You should never need to play this, if you do, it means your rush failed.

Pillage: A great card, only one copy in the deck, it helps sometimes, don't need 3 copies.

Grimgor: He's your Ultimate Destroyer. Use him wisely.

Offense and Defense

Defense? No. Never defend. Let enemies through every time. Only time you'll defend is using Urguck vs a weenie. Even then, I'd advise against it due to Tactics cards. Dark Elf hero will be no problem, impossible to get it out early enough to hurt you. Burning? Highly doubtful they can deal more damage than you. Scout? This is probably the only thing that will hurt you. But if you are playing your Quest Zone properly, it should be no problem.

Attack every turn if possible. Concentrate on undefended zones for damage distribution. The one turn swing in to full burn is what you aim to do. If given the choice between burning an undefended zone with counters already on it and going into a defended zone with no counters, choose the zone with no counters. When the enemy has damage everywhere, they won't know where to defend. If you can early burn, I'd advise against it (unless it is a 0 damage to 8 instaburn), forcing the enemy to spread out is worth while.

*sigh* now no one is going to look at my deck... I have the same concept and similar build....... Atleast now i know it works...

flipping grimgor with a rip dere heads off does not trigger his entering play ability, rip dere heads off says the card remains in play, which means its already in play, and you already missed the chance to use his ability.

FiendishDevil said:

Smash 'Em All!: Quest? Really? Yea. It's just incase your rush has stalled and also a great way to attract the enemy into attacking your Quest Zone.

I'm still learning how to play the game, and I don't see why someone will attack a zone because of a Quest being in it. According to the rulebook nothing forces you to defend with your questing unit, so attacking that specific zone has no immediate effect on the Quest itself. Could you detail me a bit more your tip about Smash 'Em All! ?

"You use this amazing card to bring in an Ironclaw Horde for that quick one turn push or to get into play Grimgor Ironhide for a turn. If you play Grimgor as a Development in your Quest or Kingdom Zone, when he gets revealed, he destroys the the supports and developments on both sides in that zone."

Yeah, this does not work -> Swap Grimgor to Bloodthirster (BTW Because Rip dere 'eads off! does not make units enter play so you can have Warpstones ex. in the zone you use it. I have almost the same build and yeah, it's nigh unstoppable. Orcs were the best faction before battlepack and now ... -_- . Only Chaos can really have a chance with a decend hand, others need that "god hand". I hope the second BP does not buff them more, ATM orcs suck the fun out of the game.

Smash 'Em All: It will "lure" enemy into attacking that zone as the quest destroys all enemy support cards. The enemy will try to attack the QZ in order to get you to defend with your Quest Unit. However, they won't realize that you could care less about defending with this particular deck. Let the QZ burn, you will still win. A normal player would defend with a quest unit if his zone was about to burn. But Orcs don't play fair.

As far as Grimgor/Rip Dere Heads...we gotta wait on a FAQ/ruling.

And yes. The only deck that stands a chance is Chaos/Dark Elf. First hand Nurgle's Pestilence or Vile Sorceress usually stalls the Orc deck long enough to get out good stuff...but still...

The 0-cost Empire defender coupled with a decent unit in another zone (e.g. Reiksguard Knights) on turn one will often slow you down enough for them to take the game, or at least that was what has happened to my Orc Blitz deck in a couple of games.

LordMalinari said:

The 0-cost Empire defender coupled with a decent unit in another zone (e.g. Reiksguard Knights) on turn one will often slow you down enough for them to take the game, or at least that was what has happened to my Orc Blitz deck in a couple of games.

yeap same thing has happened to me...
each deck tactic has its pros and cons... i like it... u never know exactly what is going to happen from game to game

sorry to change topic slightly for a second... but ive noticed alot of orc players dont use Night Goblins... just wondering on ur thoughts about that??
i find them to b very handy... to remove thoes pesky attachment cards while still being quite cheap....

StoneColdSpider said:

LordMalinari said:

The 0-cost Empire defender coupled with a decent unit in another zone (e.g. Reiksguard Knights) on turn one will often slow you down enough for them to take the game, or at least that was what has happened to my Orc Blitz deck in a couple of games.

yeap same thing has happened to me...
each deck tactic has its pros and cons... i like it... u never know exactly what is going to happen from game to game

sorry to change topic slightly for a second... but ive noticed alot of orc players dont use Night Goblins... just wondering on ur thoughts about that??
i find them to b very handy... to remove thoes pesky attachment cards while still being quite cheap....

The thing is, I can't see mono-Dwarves being able to stop Orc Blitz if it gets a decent hand without some serious god-handage. Maybe the fact that I was never paired with the Chaos/Dark Elf deck yesterday has given me a skewed view of the Orc deck I was running, but Orcs/Chaos splash is brutal . . . and if I'm being honest not totally healthy for the game.

I'm running Night Goblins, just because they're cheap Orcs and I prefer to run units with 2 Toughness over the Clan Rats other decks seem to splash as their 3x random 2-cost units, and yesterday they actually managed to take out a Knight Training . . . but the rest of the time they're just 1/2s that benefit from Waaagh! and can have their cost reduced by Grimgor's Camp.

Once we have more Skaven, I'm tempted to build a deck to utilise them, but for now only Thanquol really excites me, and possibly Warp Lightning Cannon, but I feel they're better in Chaos than a fast Orc build.

My Dwarven Steamroller deckbuild fared well against Orcs, actually survived for a long time...until Smash 'Em All obliterates all supports.

My Chaos/Dark Elf also had a 50/50 win loss rate against the Orc Deck. (I'm working on optimizing this deck to make this an anti-swarm)

Orcs are strong, but not unbeatable.

FiendishDevil said:

My Dwarven Steamroller deckbuild fared well against Orcs, actually survived for a long time...until Smash 'Em All obliterates all supports.

My Chaos/Dark Elf also had a 50/50 win loss rate against the Orc Deck. (I'm working on optimizing this deck to make this an anti-swarm)

Orcs are strong, but not unbeatable.

If the Orc deck is running Smash 'Em All and gets it off, it's toooo slow :P

3x Spider Riders

3x Crooked Teef Goblins

3x Night Goblins

3x Squig Herders

3x Followers of Mork

3x Boar Boyz

3x Doom Divers

3x Ironclaw's Horde

3x Bloodthirster

3x Waaagh

3x Rip Dere 'Eads Off

3x Choppa

3x We'z Bigga

3x Grimgor's Camp

3x Contested Village

3x Warpstone Excavation

3x Cloud of Flies / Seduced by Darkness / Totem of Gork

Play nothing to the Kingdom/Quest zone unless absolutely necessary, there's no real reason to go above 4 resources even if it is necessary :P See how your decks fair with that, that's the fastest Orc build I've managed to come up with so far ^^

I just want to say that I hope that there is some defense coming soon.

I'm not really interested in playing games where there are two and three turn wins...

I'm not an Orcs player, nor an aggro player...But I'm testing a lot with my friends in order to achieve a good understanding of each race. I'm a "heavy" control player.

I'd like to post this Orcs List, that's winning a lot and seems the best build we made with the " greenz " (obviously, the best compared to our own builds...I'm not sayin' it's the ULTIMATE orcs deck ;) ).

Give it a look/try, if you want.

UNITS - 26
3x Crooked Tree Goblins
3x Lobber Crew
3x Squig Herders
3x Followers of Mork
3x Boar Boyz
3x Doom Divers
3x Ironclaw's Horde
3x Big 'Uns
2x Urguck

SUPPORTS - 10
3x Grimore's Camp
2x Rock Lobber
2x Choppa
3x Warpstone Excavation

TACTICS - 14
3x We'z Bigga!
3x Waaagh!
3x Pillage!
3x Rip dere 'eads off
2x Troll Vomit

TOT: 50

It's pretty fast and strong in the long run...I guess it's the strongest build we made cause it has a great personality even after 6/7 turns.

I don't play Grimor, nor other popular supports. In the original version I used to play 3x Troll Vomit, but it was a complicated aggro-control concept that will get more effort in the future...

Rock Lobber is pretty important in this build, as well as Warpstone Excavation, which gave it a big "boost" (I didn't play it at the beginning).

Ironically, Rip dere 'eads off is not that important here, but it helps in the early winning so I'm not going to pull it out.

Opinions are welcome. ;)

there seems to b a lot of good orc lists floating around here

Orcs seem to b quite versatile and forgiving in the deck building department being able to build many different winning decks... quite easy

Empire and Dwarves seems to b the hardest to build and the mono builds dont work... they have b combined... bit of a bummer :(
i really hope that changes in time with the booster packs....

I'm sure it will. Any card game that is just starting runs into problems with one deck type sweeping all others. At least the metagame is predictable.

Played the first few games with a custom deck with my girlfriend yesterday. She had never played these kinds of card games before and had lots of fun. Why?

Because I gave her an orc deck and she smashed my face with it in every game. Her first game, the first card game she ever played, she beat me in 6 turns. The next: 5 turns.

So now she is helping me test decks that can beat the orcs.

u guys have wives and girlfriends??? WTF?? :P

StoneColdSpider said:

u guys have wives and girlfriends??? WTF?? :P

This made me laugh so hard . . . .

On another note, Orcs are seeming really tough to put down, and I'm definately hoping the next battle pack or so works on this.

I like the rush element, but if you do happen to stall out for any reason with orcs it is really hard to get back the upper hand . . . . especially against Chaos.

StoneColdSpider said:

u guys have wives and girlfriends??? WTF?? :P

Lol, oh my. I have a fiance, haven't taught her WI yet. She has played Magic before with me so she is not a total noob.

Question, how are Orc decks bringing out the Bloodthirster ?

Toqtamish said:

Question, how are Orc decks bringing out the Bloodthirster ?

putting them down as a development and using Rip Dere 'Eads Off to bring them into play for 1 turn

congrats on the fiance thing too :P
im 29 and ive been single my whole life... LOL!

Wow, I can't wait to try out that trick , now I need another core set I think.

StoneColdSpider said:

u guys have wives and girlfriends??? WTF?? :P

They were a limited release promo if you got the game at GenCon.

gui%C3%B1o.gif

RexGator said:

StoneColdSpider said:

u guys have wives and girlfriends??? WTF?? :P

They were a limited release promo if you got the game at GenCon.

gui%C3%B1o.gif

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
classic lengua.gif
i hope they dont take them out of the origonal packaging then! gui%C3%B1o.gif

I play against my brother and he is currently dominating...

Skaven made orcs way to strong. I only hope there is balance in sight.

mylastnerv said:

On another note, Orcs are seeming really tough to put down, and I'm definately hoping the next battle pack or so works on this.

I like the rush element, but if you do happen to stall out for any reason with orcs it is really hard to get back the upper hand . . . . especially against Chaos.

That is the problem with Rush and the balancing factor of Orcs, if your opponent weathers the storm you are left with a reduced deck, under developed Quest and Kingdom Zones and very little way of bouncing back.

Of course Orcs don't have to use a Rush build... there are other ways for them to win... I just haven't seen more than a couple people try anything else yet. Once everyone else starts building to defend the rush and learns how to stall Orcs those other builds will be even stronger.