It's a shame, but the recommended system for doling out experience is the same old boring "One xp a session, plus maybe another if the party reached an important point in the story" stuff that I've heard from the mainstream for years, and which I am now far, far too cool to tolerate. So let's all be cool and brainstorm a superior drop-in replacement.

I'll give my awesome ideas first, but everyone who has different awesome ideas should share them whenever. And also, if the day ever comes when folks are playing this crazy game, people who actually tried out their awesome ideas should absolutely share their experiences.

So what makes a good experience system?

• it should reward (and therefore encourage) behavior which makes the experience at the table more fun for everyone
• BUT it should incorporate limits, so as to not be abusable, or lead to one-note behavior
• it should reinforce the conventions of the fiction, both general (for example, D&D is about struggle, so you get experience from winning fights) and personal (for example, your merchant character wants to build a trading empire, so you get experience from making deals)
• it should be fair, such that everyone has an equal opportunity to advance their character, and no one feels as if they being excluded or blocked
• BUT it should be dynamic and variable, so that in a given session some people may earn a little bit more than others

I think those are pretty good basic principles. I have some personal feelings that may be slightly less universal. For example, I don't think out-of-character behavior should ever be rewarded with experience, especially in systems like this where even a single point can mean a big increase in character capability...but that's a matter of taste.

Some specific WFRP3 concerns, as I see them

• The default system ensures 1 (or maaaybe 2) advances per session. A seamless replacement should likewise make it very easy to get one point and significantly harder to get two. A faster moving replacement would give more. There may be unforseen pacing consequences to speeding this up too much (characters reach high ranks before having endured and overcome impressive challenges, for example).
• Related note, as I said earlier, one advance means a fair amount in this game. Rewarding multiple advances for one action seems as if it might rapidly unbalance. If it seems as if two disctinct behaviors should be rewarded, but one of them is much harder or "better" than the other, then the easier one should be dropped and the harder one used as a new baseline for what an advance is worth.
• Careers! These should be fertile ground for a targeted experience system. Every career should have some associated behavior which can give points.
• Races/Ethnicities might be used the same way, though I'm leery of rewarding the reinforcement of stereotypes (yes, even in fiction). But other people can make suggestions here.
• ?? I am not super-familiar with the feel and flavor of Warhammer. Should people be rewarded for enduring injury and surviving? Refusing reward or renown for heroic deeds? Whatchoo think?

Just steal directly from 1st/2nd ed... multiply up the number of xp that converts to an advance and then you can start giving out 10 xp person (or mutliple up again and then you can give 100 xp a session).

Now that you are giving on average 100 xp a session, you can split that 100 down into specific tasks to be achieved by the group, for individuals etc, then as long as these are planned out (much like published adventures did for 2nd ed), and the amount of xp (with multiplier) roughly available per session equates to 1 or 2 xp gained in "real-terms", then the overall balance of the system remains.

I was planning on converting the 1 XP in 3rd ed to 100 XP as a direct corrolation. Awards would be as in the first and second editions - maybe 50 XP for taking part, and the rest down to roleplay and events. That way you do not automatically advance for showing your face, but have to work with the plotline and your character to advance.

Obviously, I will need to see the rules before I make a final decision, but this just seems right.

Alp

kicker said:

fwiw, I really like the one exp per session thing and generally convert any game I'm playing to that sort of ethos.

And so I take exception to your first point. I just don't want the exp system to encourage fun. Everything else about the game should encourage fun, afaic. I find the exp system the worst tool for doing that because it's outside of the game and inherently judgemental. The exp system should just reflect the growing experience and expertise of the protagonists. It's as simple as that, for me.

You could even go it further and get rid of XP and just let each character take an advance every other session or something like that...

Gobbo said:

I agree, I feel that it is most natural for the GM to just let the characters know when he feels they have progressed enough to gain an advance. I always have hated systems that rewarded X number of points per creature, event, etc. and hate giving people extra XP for acting their part. With that kind of system certain characters may get ahead over time and this could cause jealousy amonst other players. Having the group progress as one makes it much easier and more enjoyable for everyone.

szlachcic said:

There is one problem with the idea of letting your players take a free advance even every three sessions or for those that do all day gaming runs after 6hrs of play. Certain aspects of each career have diferent requirements to level up what maybe easier for the trollslayer may be twice as hard for the watchman. However if you allow a "free" advance at a certain point everone could pick there hardest advance and level that up. As i began writing this reply i stopped to look at all the careers that are in the base set and took the advance line for skills the cost to increase this ability runs the gambit from 0 (meaning you cant) to 4 ( meaning it can happen but not with out some dedication to learning that skill) with the average being about 2.

While i like the idea presented above in this new system i dont think it works as well as it would in say DnD.

just my two cents sorry if it sounds preachy or flame based

Just thought I would offer my favorite method of giving rewards in WFRP 3E. Instead of experience, the GM rewards players with a fortune die for good role play, being creative, etc. While this may not sound as exciting as getting experience rewards at first, I personally find it more rewarding. Not only does this keep the party on an even keel as far as experience and advancements, but it gives immediate and very useful resource for the character's next dice roll giving them a greater chance of success or even a greater success. (This may be in the books, which I don't have yet, so forgive me if I am repeating something that has already been stated).

Nezzir did this for us in the preview and I loved the idea of it.

Personally, I feel that the experience system should remain in tact and that the GM should reward players through alternate methods.

Grant it, I don't own the rules but we've been playing a patched version of it for a while based on what we know from the internet and a handful of sticker dice. I started them out basically at DND 0 level, as sort a prelude to the actual game. What I did for XP is take a modified version of the Rogue Trader system and it works extremely well.

I have two experience bars, Advancements (what you use to actually by stuff) and Experience (which I use to actually gauge the game itself). I basically rule that 5 experience points converts to one Advancement Points. I reward for many of the things listed above, but I'll give you a run down:

1) Player did quality role-play

2) Player shows great wisdom, resourcefulness, comes up with a brilliant idea that helps the party or himself move forward in the game.

3) Player overcame extreme adversity, meaning they learned from a harder experience than they used to (in some cases managed to survive) and now they've grown.

4) Their role-play and choices kept in the tone and feel of their party card. It's a whole new aspect and should encourage play and the story. Also I use this to gauge how much they actually roleplay the stress meter. We're a role-play heavy group and feel the party stress meter should make the situation more tense when it goes up and how good role-play brings it back down.

5) What the character learned that furthers the character's objectives. I don't normally give this out if the player says, I learned how to kill an orc, because that's not necessarily a real learning experience, what I mean is stuff like the king is possessed by Chaos or the like. Things that really help them. It sort of is a throw away, but does help measure "where you actually paying attention" lol.

I will award Achievement points for exceptionally quality of role-play, an exceptionally good moment, an exceptional decision that really brought the game to life. I don't give out more than one to each player a night.

In addition, I will give out fortune points on the fly for great role-play, great dice interpretatons, great moments (humorous or otherwise) or great stunting that yields a quality result.

Now, I've also changed up their leveling mechanic a bit because I feel skill points are way, way, way underrated. I make skills cost 3 Advancements. Reason being, yellow dice are awesome and are, by far, one of the best dice in the game (the best the players can actually by). More characteristic dice is better (but that's already pro-rated) however, a characteristic raise of strength from a 2-3 (3xp) is about as equal as 2 strength and 1 Skill die. Talents, thus far, remain a 1 but I don't have those cards, however 1 Fortune die is not really all that huge. Actions cards...I have no idea, but since we don't have them and we're at zero level, I don't worry about it.

The 5 xp to 1 Advancement may be too high. Pending on your pace you could make it 2 or 3. I wouldn't go higher than 5 though.

I was thinking, what about introducing a sub xp running total for each player - for sake of the argument I'll call it Renown.

As players do things that don't necessarily merit additional XP, it could be furthering their renown in the campaign world. From there, you could then use your renown to try and attempt to get things (whether it be new items, advancements or whatever), in the same way that you can obtain items in Rogue Trader (the profit factor). However, I would still make it difficult to obtain "free stuff", with odds improving based off how much renown you would obtain.

Whats more, basing it off the new dice mechanic, you also give the opportunity for interesting narrative to be built around this, rather than a simple pass/fail.

Personally though, if I were to implement something like this, I would ensure that players attempting to utilise their renown would reset to 0 (or halve it, rounded down) each time they used it, so as to not overpower characters who will just milk it once they've "RP'd enough"

EDIT - just for clarification, I'd make it reset (or halve) just to keep the gritty nature of the Warhammer World intact, rather than a happy fun candyland where every whim can be gratified (that's more of a slaanesh thing).

At first I was going to simply convert the 10 XP = 1 AP. I may still, as it gives me a little more flexibility in awarding experience points. But I am still on the fence because I do not want to add needless complexity. I like simplistic systems.

People in my group play for different reasons. But almost all of them view XP as a reward for good role-playing and idea generation.

A player with a troll-slayer may be hesitant to throw himself headlong into almost certain death without some kind of reward. I use a troll-slayer as an example, because they forsake worldly possessions so you can't reward them with gold. So outside of XP how does a GM reward a troll-slayer? You could reward him with better equipment, but even that is very limiting because slayers do not use armor, nor do they really care for uber-powerful weapons [my interpretation of slayers]. You could reward them with fortune, actions or skills, but that is pretty much the same as XP.

Or how do you reward a player for coming up with a good idea that is implemented by another character who then reaps the rewards of that action? I firmly believe that everyone should gain some reward so that everything seems like a team effort.

One point five per session?

jh

how im doing things is, if they do good they get 2 points, they do anything less then good they get 1/ if we have to stop mid way. I MIGHT give 3 if they role-play very well...but thats about it