If people were saying that TFA was perfect I could understand all the complaining, but no one does that! People say it is an enjoyable Star Wars movie, nothing less, nothing more. It is not the highlight of the franchise by any strech, but it is decent enough that it makes most people look forward to Episode VIII in a genuinly positive way (unlike with the prequels were people were like "this one is the one, they are going to fix that crap and redeem the PT").

Most Rey and Kylo bashing is really nit picky and far-fetched. Not all of it, but most points that "da haterz" keep bringing up.

If people were saying that TFA was perfect I could understand all the complaining, but no one does that! People say it is an enjoyable Star Wars movie, nothing less, nothing more. It is not the highlight of the franchise by any strech, but it is decent enough that it makes most people look forward to Episode VIII in a genuinly positive way (unlike with the prequels were people were like "this one is the one, they are going to fix that crap and redeem the PT").

Most Rey and Kylo bashing is really nit picky and far-fetched. Not all of it, but most points that "da haterz" keep bringing up.

Nope people have quite openly declared it's better than the OT on these very forums, loads have given it 9/10 the ones saying it's okay are not the majority by any means.

Just look how many refuse to acknowledge the similarities to a new hope.

Pointing out flaws doesn't make you a hater just honest, you can like a film despite or even because of its flaws.

If people were saying that TFA was perfect I could understand all the complaining, but no one does that! People say it is an enjoyable Star Wars movie, nothing less, nothing more. It is not the highlight of the franchise by any strech, but it is decent enough that it makes most people look forward to Episode VIII in a genuinly positive way (unlike with the prequels were people were like "this one is the one, they are going to fix that crap and redeem the PT").

Most Rey and Kylo bashing is really nit picky and far-fetched. Not all of it, but most points that "da haterz" keep bringing up.

Of course, it is impossible to talk about TFA without pissing on the prequels again.

That is a personal thing to me. When I got into Star Wars again I watched them for the first time not being a child and I was painfully disappointed. For me, that set my expectations for TFA - it will be at least comparable to RotS, which was the one PT movie that didn't "hurt" me. That led to me being positively suprised and enjoying Star Wars more than I ever did as a result.

If people were saying that TFA was perfect I could understand all the complaining, but no one does that! People say it is an enjoyable Star Wars movie, nothing less, nothing more. It is not the highlight of the franchise by any strech, but it is decent enough that it makes most people look forward to Episode VIII in a genuinly positive way (unlike with the prequels were people were like "this one is the one, they are going to fix that crap and redeem the PT").

Most Rey and Kylo bashing is really nit picky and far-fetched. Not all of it, but most points that "da haterz" keep bringing up.

Of course, it is impossible to talk about TFA without pissing on the prequels again.

That is a personal thing to me. When I got into Star Wars again I watched them for the first time not being a child and I was painfully disappointed. For me, that set my expectations for TFA - it will be at least comparable to RotS, which was the one PT movie that didn't "hurt" me.

Then work out your personal issues in your personal space. Man, I come here because I think it is a place for Star Wars fans. So every nth message tells me that my favorite films were crap. Well done. "Crap". Really.

They weren't, FFS. There is a lot to these films, the fact that internet parrots tell us otherwise does not change that. Revenge of the Sith comes **** close to being my favorite SW film and if TFA had been like it I'd have loved the latter even more. Adding in some of Lucas' talent for visual storytelling - illustrated well by the prequels - would have improved the movie.

The prequels have nothing to do with x-wing it's OT forward we don't come here to talk about films that are maligned by the majority as bad not just as star wars films but films in general.

If you have a right to say you like them we have the same right to express our pain that those abominations exist.

Why is what I think about the PT so important to you? It is ultimately a subjective matter.

I stated it because it is important to my feelings about TFA, thats relevant to the discussion.

You know what? I will even agree that there was a lot to the PT, but for me not from a movie standpoint. Some of my favourite EU work + the great Clone Wars series have spawned from them and the worldbuilding was partialy done well.

well it wasn't just that Rey beat Kylo in a fight--we know he was severely injured. It's that she was amazing at literally everything. No weaknesses, no flaws, not even any personality flaws, really.

Yep.. Amazing at everything. That is precisely why closed the blast doors rather than accidently release the rathtars. She also new exactly how to fire a blaster and not leave the safety on. She was also the right thing by deciding to go back and wait for the family who abandoned her - no emotional scars there.

Wow, she made one mistake which she corrected few moments later. And the blaster situation is exactly what people don't like about her - clearly first time ever she holds a blaster and plants headshot after headshot.

Really? I'll pay more attention this week when Imgo see it for the fourth time, but how many stormtroopers did she shoot exactly? I'd be surprised if it's more than one or two.

No weapons until they get to Maz, she missed that one stormtrooper there didn't she? Maybe some spray fire at the power plant but she was next to Finn there, so it'd be hard to tell who shot whom, and even then not a whole lot of stormtroopers were shot with Chewie taking most of them.

But headshot after headshot?

According to the numbers, Rey is one of the poorest shots in the Star Wars franchise (8/13). Finn is #1 (4/4), followed by Amidala (11/13).

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Best-Shot-Star-Wars-Galaxy-According-Math-105247.html

The title of the movie is "The Force Awakens." As Snopes points out to Kylo. The subtext is that The Force is taking an active interest as opposed to sitting back and being an energy field. Rey is also old enough to be a reincarnation of Anakin Skywalker - the lighsabre triggers some serious flashbacks. There are plenty of theories, and Lawrence Kasdan (who wrote TESB and whom you should be blaming) is no slouch. The movie is setting up for the prequels. There's a reason Luke is sulking on an island. There's a reason why Han suddenly decides to borrow Chewie's bowcaster. There's a reason Han Solo gets skewered. There's a reason why Rey becomes so implausibly OP. If you focus on factoids over just enjoying the story, it will bother you. If you focus on the movement of the storytelling elements, you will understand and maybe / maybe not agree.

It's a good movie, one of the best SW movies, but all Star Wars movies have only been good movies at best. Its main weakness is Death Star III.

As I am fond of repeating, this is a story of lazer swords and magick in space.

I really don't understand the hate for TFA. I enjoyed it a lot it's a sold 7 or 8 out of ten (Empire being a 9 to me). It's nowhere near perfect but none of these star wars movies are. People trying to pick holes in new films should really go and watch everything wrong with.... on you tube. Even massive fans can pick those films apart just as much as the newer ones.

Can we all just accept that star wars as a whole is awesome?

I really don't understand the hate for TFA. I enjoyed it a lot it's a sold 7 or 8 out of ten (Empire being a 9 to me). It's nowhere near perfect but none of these star wars movies are. People trying to pick holes in new films should really go and watch everything wrong with.... on you tube. Even massive fans can pick those films apart just as much as the newer ones.

Can we all just accept that star wars as a whole is awesome?

No because alot of star wars sucks bad such as:

The Xmas special

The prequels

The ewoks live action movies

The prequels

The ewoks cartoon

The prequels

Games based on the prequels

The prequels

Rebel assault 1&2 were bad

The prequels

Some EU books

And of course the prequels.

Being a fan does not mean you have to like everything related to that franchise.

I like the X-Men films but I won't say x3 and wolverine origins were good.

Being a fan does not mean you discard your critical judgment on a things quality.

I really don't understand the hate for TFA. I enjoyed it a lot it's a sold 7 or 8 out of ten (Empire being a 9 to me). It's nowhere near perfect but none of these star wars movies are. People trying to pick holes in new films should really go and watch everything wrong with.... on you tube. Even massive fans can pick those films apart just as much as the newer ones.

Can we all just accept that star wars as a whole is awesome?

No because alot of star wars sucks bad such as:

The Xmas special

The prequels

The ewoks live action movies

The prequels

The ewoks cartoon

The prequels

Games based on the prequels

The prequels

Rebel assault 1&2 were bad

The prequels

Some EU books

And of course the prequels.

Being a fan does not mean you have to like everything related to that franchise.

I like the X-Men films but I won't say x3 and wolverine origins were good.

Being a fan does not mean you discard your critical judgment on a things quality.

How can you not like X3 it was so good they made a film to remove it from existence

well it wasn't just that Rey beat Kylo in a fight--we know he was severely injured. It's that she was amazing at literally everything. No weaknesses, no flaws, not even any personality flaws, really.

Yep.. Amazing at everything. That is precisely why closed the blast doors rather than accidently release the rathtars. She also new exactly how to fire a blaster and not leave the safety on. She was also the right thing by deciding to go back and wait for the family who abandoned her - no emotional scars there.

Wow, she made one mistake which she corrected few moments later. And the blaster situation is exactly what people don't like about her - clearly first time ever she holds a blaster and plants headshot after headshot.

Luke seemed pretty adept firing a stormtrooper rifle for the first time. And he took to that X-Wing pretty quickly.

Why is what I think about the PT so important to you? It is ultimately a subjective matter.

I stated it because it is important to my feelings about TFA, thats relevant to the discussion.

You know what? I will even agree that there was a lot to the PT, but for me not from a movie standpoint. Some of my favourite EU work + the great Clone Wars series have spawned from them and the worldbuilding was partialy done well.

It's the prequel bashing that matters to me. I think I already explained why, but apparently you only skimmed what I wrote.

This is a Star Wars forum, so I kind of expect Star Wars fans here. This is the last place where I would think that Star Wars movies are called crap. Is it strange that I care about these films? I've had it with the prequel bashing, so I am responding to your bull.

The Phantom Menace was a good film. Every prequel beats TFA on its own merits.

The Phantom Menace was a good film. Every prequel beats TFA on its own merits.

That's a... brave statement. Two, in fact.

Wait... You just said that hating on star wars movies is bad cause they are all good... Then say that the prequels beat TFA... Shouldn't then all the movies be equal? At least use logic in your arguement. The phantom menance was literally the laughing stock of the films, every other movie including 2 and 3 at least had redeeming qualities. I take that back... The sound track for PM was pretty amazingly orchestrated.

The Phantom Menace was a good film. Every prequel beats TFA on its own merits.

That's a... brave statement.

And why not? The prequels were well received at the time, and once you actually dig in what they're about, they have a lot to offer. It's not that I think they did everything right - TPM is still my least favorite of the saga. But I love it regardless. And it does a lot of things right.

Again: the extremely vapid backlash, that tries to present 'TPM is bad' simply as fact, is a fabrication that took place quite a while after the fact.

Why is what I think about the PT so important to you? It is ultimately a subjective matter.

I stated it because it is important to my feelings about TFA, thats relevant to the discussion.

You know what? I will even agree that there was a lot to the PT, but for me not from a movie standpoint. Some of my favourite EU work + the great Clone Wars series have spawned from them and the worldbuilding was partialy done well.

It's the prequel bashing that matters to me. I think I already explained why, but apparently you only skimmed what I wrote.

This is a Star Wars forum, so I kind of expect Star Wars fans here. This is the last place where I would think that Star Wars movies are called crap. Is it strange that I care about these films? I've had it with the prequel bashing, so I am responding to your bull.

The Phantom Menace was a good film. Every prequel beats TFA on its own merits.

Well you explained it with "I don't like being told that people dislike movies I like so often". Which is fine, but just as subjective as any statement I make. My opinion on these movies isn't any more or less valid than yours, so I kind of take offense to you calling my opinion "bull", which is a niveau of discussion to which I don't intend to sink, a good day to you.

Wait... You just said that hating on star wars movies is bad cause they are all good... Then say that the prequels beat TFA... Shouldn't then all the movies be equal? At least use logic in your arguement. The phantom menance was literally the laughing stock of the films, every other movie including 2 and 3 at least had redeeming qualities. I take that back... The sound track for PM was pretty amazingly orchestrated.

I said the prequels beat TFA on their merits. For example, the visual storytelling of the prequels is better than that of TFA.

And why not?

Because I have no idea how you could think such things. It seems quite mad. I kinda get it when kids say they liked it (I'm willing to be Flight of the Navigator doesn't hold up like I think it does), but otherwise it's kinda baffling.

Wait... You just said that hating on star wars movies is bad cause they are all good... Then say that the prequels beat TFA... Shouldn't then all the movies be equal? At least use logic in your arguement. The phantom menance was literally the laughing stock of the films, every other movie including 2 and 3 at least had redeeming qualities. I take that back... The sound track for PM was pretty amazingly orchestrated.

I said the prequels beat TFA on their merits. For example, the visual storytelling of the prequels is better than that of TFA.

Which invalidates your entire arguement.

The Phantom Menace was a good film. Every prequel beats TFA on its own merits.

That's a... brave statement.

And why not? The prequels were well received at the time, and once you actually dig in what they're about, they have a lot to offer. It's not that I think they did everything right - TPM is still my least favorite of the saga. But I love it regardless. And it does a lot of things right.

Again: the extremely vapid backlash, that tries to present 'TPM is bad' simply as fact, is a fabrication that took place quite a while after the fact.

No. No, they weren't. Certainly not for me and I remember at the time the horrible disappointment. I took a girl I liked to see TPM and I almost died of embarassment. I cringed through AOTC. ROTS was OK except for "younglings" and Padme dying like a FIFA football player. "Oh I'm unwell EEEEERRKKK"

I said the prequels beat TFA on their merits. For example, the visual storytelling of the prequels is better than that of TFA.

*much unnecessary CGI gesticulating*

"The Banking Guild willl ALSO join your league, Count Dooku"

*much unnecessary CGI gesticulating*

*much unnecessary CGI gesticulting*

*CGI fiddles with broken knob to point out the fact that this is a CGI cyborg*

"The Techno-Union Army is at your DISPOSAL, Count"

*much unnecessary CGI gesticulating*

"Younglings"

When these crap moments are the standout moments for me, there's a problem.

Why is what I think about the PT so important to you? It is ultimately a subjective matter.

I stated it because it is important to my feelings about TFA, thats relevant to the discussion.

You know what? I will even agree that there was a lot to the PT, but for me not from a movie standpoint. Some of my favourite EU work + the great Clone Wars series have spawned from them and the worldbuilding was partialy done well.

It's the prequel bashing that matters to me. I think I already explained why, but apparently you only skimmed what I wrote.

This is a Star Wars forum, so I kind of expect Star Wars fans here. This is the last place where I would think that Star Wars movies are called crap. Is it strange that I care about these films? I've had it with the prequel bashing, so I am responding to your bull.

The Phantom Menace was a good film. Every prequel beats TFA on its own merits.

Well you explained it with "I don't like being told that people dislike movies I like so often". Which is fine, but just as subjective as any statement I make. My opinion on these movies isn't any more or less valid than yours, so I kind of take offense to you calling my opinion "bull", which is a niveau of discussion to which I don't intend to sink, a good day to you.

Yes, I call your opinion bull, entirely the level you were at with 'crap'. Maybe you hadn't noticed what 'niveau' (is that platt Deutsch also?) you had entered?

And why not?

Because I have no idea how you could think such things. It seems quite mad. I kinda get it when kids say they liked it (I'm willing to be Flight of the Navigator doesn't hold up like I think it does), but otherwise it's kinda baffling.

Here's one critic's perspective. I don't see what's so baffling about this.

Okay, lets look at the "crap" statement:

If people were saying that TFA was perfect I could understand all the complaining, but no one does that! People say it is an enjoyable Star Wars movie, nothing less, nothing more. It is not the highlight of the franchise by any strech, but it is decent enough that it makes most people look forward to Episode VIII in a genuinly positive way (unlike with the prequels were people were like "this one is the one, they are going to fix that crap and redeem the PT").

Most Rey and Kylo bashing is really nit picky and far-fetched. Not all of it, but most points that "da haterz" keep bringing up.

In case you didn't realize, that is a paraphrase. Most people I speak to went into the cinema with that feeling at that time, this doesn't equate to me calling the movies crap. You like the prequels, but you can't denie that there are people who didn't enjoy them.

And why not?

Because I have no idea how you could think such things. It seems quite mad. I kinda get it when kids say they liked it (I'm willing to be Flight of the Navigator doesn't hold up like I think it does), but otherwise it's kinda baffling.

Here's one critic's perspective. I don't see what's so baffling about this.

Because he thinks the idea of symbiosis is so amazing it redeems every other feature.

It doesn't make bad Star Trek movies good, and it's in every single one.

I liked Pacific Rim, which was a bad movie (wilfully bad). Other movies I think are good that others think are bad. Dune was pretty terrible and pretty amazing at the same time. But I think it's a stretch to say that, on technical merits, TPM is better than TFA. You can like the movie all you want, and you don't have to have a reason for liking it, and thinking it's good. That's OK. But remember you are talking about The Hobbit of the Star Wars franchise: considered by most a lukewarm movie.

Here's one critic's perspective. I don't see what's so baffling about this.

Because he's managed to ignore an awful lot of sins for a half-baked underlying concept.