iceman01 said:

Sigh... All I can say is it's like running a race, once you are a lap or two ahead you escape any meaningful interactions with the runners behind you.

I also have no idea how King (last 2 weeks winner, earth and void) or Heiachi (the week before) is solitaire. I can 'kind' of see how you think me playing Hilde, and doing everything right, ends up being me playing my deck as opposed to a game against my opponent's. But even this isn't at all true - trying to survive against a barrage of attacks isn't solitaire, it is me reacting against a bunch of different attacks. Trying to stay one control piece ahead to still get Hilde's enhance off isn't solitaire, it is me racing against an opponent to build a better staging area.

I can 'more so' see how my Dark Force mirage decks were solitaire, but they really weren't. There were plenty of ways to stop them and the interaction before the combo goes off is still a two player game, again it's not my fault the vast majority of our meta didn't win that initial card game which put me too far ahead and saw me then play a game all by myself...

- dut

dutpotd said:

It's not me you have to convince that you like to play solitaire. I have seen you run some version of aggresive decks with 12 attacks in them. I don't think I've seen you play with any more. Yah those two versions of your King deck is way to slow for a King deck. I playtested against Kevin. I was like this needs to be fast and more bang for the buck.

It could be worst and be playing a no brainer Astrid deck... I hate that character. I know it's not hard to beat her, or is it. Now Now it's not funny to say that you can out ride some of the players.

Lol glad alot of you guys do understand what i am talking about. I am gonna fool around with the deck and see whats going on with it. Gotta hurry. lol Store championships saturday.

The HAWK said:

I think we all understand. even someone like me who trys to tell you otherwise understands and more or less agrees that it can be frustrating when you've lost the ability to fight back. All this means though is that you have a time limit on your victory, you win your games against these characters early, and you need to be able to recognize the timeframe for victory. Doing so will enable you to fold game one of a best of 3 if you are doomed, i.e. so much reduction/defense out even the best draw and plays won't see you kill your opponent.

Just be glad life gain is gone, it used to be you could lose a bunch of life early, hit a somewhat equilibrium and then gain it all back...

- dut

dutpotd said:

Definately know what u mean. Dunno just need to learn to play it faster. If you could comment on my deck thats posted id rly appreciate it too.

iceman01 said:

pish posh, my agressive decks have 17 attacks, and my defenisve decks 12. Even my Hilde has 14... I think the fewest attacks I've run since block 4 was 12 (a Hilde). Anyone who knows me knows I ran 11+ attacks in all my block 3 decks as well, never any less, and usually I had more than most/all of the palyers around me wherever I finished in the standings.

I don't think my Kings were slow by any means, (fyi, earth one with 15 attacks, the void one with 16). I don't think King is a 'fast' character, he is average to fast, but it really depends if he gets path or other strong damage pump out. He is a character without any pump on him, sure tossing an extra attack a turn is nice and all, but if it is being blocked and dealing 2-3, it isn't going to make him a quicksilver or anything.

It's really all about finding your characters sweet spot, some are meant to be fast, some are meant to be steady, and some are meant to be slow. I'm not going to play every character agressively, they just aren't meant to be played as such in all cases.

It's not funny to say I play solitaire, but some of our playgroup seems to think it is. My response to that, that they are left behind and therefore only capable of watching, although blatantly asinine and egotistical, is a fair response - stone for stone.

- dut

iceman01 said:

Really? What's with all the Astrid hate

Hope my Astrid deck isn't a no brainer...

magicmint said:

Really? What's with all the Astrid hate

Hope my Astrid deck isn't a no brainer...

She's annoying.

Homme Chapeau said:

magicmint said:

Really? What's with all the Astrid hate

Hope my Astrid deck isn't a no brainer...

She's annoying.

Perhaps some elaboration?

dutpotd said:

If the distance between you and those around you is so vast why not teach them to be better players and assist in their growth? But then again you may not be the teaching type. Not everyone who knows can teach.

magicmint said:

Homme Chapeau said:

magicmint said:

Really? What's with all the Astrid hate

Hope my Astrid deck isn't a no brainer...

She's annoying.

Perhaps some elaboration?

The issue with Astrid is that she can build on her turn and abuse her reversal mechanic on her opponents turn making sure she can block and pummels smash reversal. When she character stacks it almost makes it an auto game over. You can't match her speed pumps at that time. There is only so much you can do when the average speed for attacks are 5-8 before additional speed pumps.

darklogos said:

magicmint said:

Homme Chapeau said:

magicmint said:

Really? What's with all the Astrid hate

Hope my Astrid deck isn't a no brainer...

She's annoying.

Perhaps some elaboration?

The issue with Astrid is that she can build on her turn and abuse her reversal mechanic on her opponents turn making sure she can block and pummels smash reversal. When she character stacks it almost makes it an auto game over. You can't match her speed pumps at that time. There is only so much you can do when the average speed for attacks are 5-8 before additional speed pumps.

darklogos said:

In Dut's defence he tries. However he has a number of players who want to play the game a certain way, bedamned anyones advice.

Dut's approach to the game is fundamentally different then many folks. His awareness and knowledge of the depth of the game is fundamentally strong.

He's someone who in the space of a year went from "New Player" to consistent Top cut finisher in major events.

Garret and I could sit down and play endless "Grey War" games, and we'd both love it. The meta that he comes from has a disdain for grey war. They found a way to play aggro while everyone else was playing the aforementioned Grey wars. The comments about him play solitare, and then the corresponding comments about skill level come from him taking complex intricate turns where he's thinking 6 or 8 cards down the line on that turn. Where as a whole, his playgroup would rather not play games on that level.

That's just the point of view from an outsider looking in.

Antigoth said:

Better that than having the entire meta being completely mental.

I pick up a bunch when play with dutpotd. Hope I can one day pick up on what makes him such a good player.

magicmint said:

After the game, if there's something that he did that you're not sure why he made that decision, ask him.

You'll probably find the answer is enlightening.

The HAWK said:

I've posted a thoughtful response in your deckbuilding thread.

To end this thread, there are still characters that can defend, they just can't do it nearly as well (i.e. in all stages of the game). A fighting game isn't only about offense, anyone who has played a fighting game at a high level understands games that go to time, chip damage, and all sorts of lovely stuff that happens when evenly matched offense meets defense, let alone 2 defensive characters face off... = we are playing a Fighting Game, one with 3 dimensions, not some wild button masher...

And Jon, your Astrid isn't a no brainer. It is however a case of a character with very strong abilities and when run with a brain (which you definately have) it overshadows many of the other viable characters played with equal skill and effort. And, you don't need to 'pick up' on what makes me a good player, it should be obvious - what makes anyone a good player is their desire to improve, add in some personal flair that isn't easily sacrificed for common bests and you have an interesting player.

- dut

dutpotd said:

I look forward to see how you place in the next big event in your area then.

Garrett doesn't need to place high in his area. He has consistently topped in events this year.

He got 5th place at US Nationals 2009 and 3rd place at US Worlds 2009.

He's one of the best, sir. He won the "Most Improved Player" award in 2009.

Not trying to offend anyone but I always hated the whole "this is suppose to be a fighting game" thing. This is not a fighting game, this is a collectable card game based off of fighting games. If there was a CCG that truly translated how a fighting game worked it would be so craptastic you wouldn't want to touch it with a ten foot pole (no foundations, no assets, yeah you get the point plain and boooooooooring). I love to play CCGs because of the strategy. I didn't mind the grey wars myself, although yes it was ridiculous in the end of block 3. Some decks try and save for the big attack, what’s wrong with that? I think its better when a game has a bunch of different deck types out there. Otherwise it will be boring if all decks are just blindly chucking attacks. If that is your style then cool. But I don’t see anything wrong if someone uses a slower deck. You play to win, if I’m building a deck I’m not going to go “I need 20 attacks in this deck” if it doesn’t fit my plan then I’m not going to just throw in attacks because this is a “fighting game”. If my deck works fine with only 8 attacks then I’m only going to play 8, it might be a little slower but if it works it works. I like decks that play 20+ attacks, I like decks that play very few attacks, and I liked decks that played no or almost no attacks (go mill!). It all just part of the game.

Shaneth said:

How in the heck do you get "most improved player"? How do you even gauge that?

A deck with no attacks would be like an opponent who never attacked

Exactly.

MarcoPulleaux said:

Unless it's Lu Chen doing his The Peaceful Way thing sidestepping and redirecting your momentum to fall on your face. You gotta "Know when to talk..." "...and When to Fight" [/badpun]

It's not that an "exhaustion" isn't a valid game win, it shouldn't be the only way to win in the deck. It's like fighting Buzz Killington. He'll sidestep (Stand Off) then continue to enlighten you on how evidence of the earliest production of high carbon steel in the Indian Subcontinent was found in Samanalawewa area in Sri Lanka.

guitalex2008 said:

Pardon but my French

BUT HOLY ******* ****

Did you just make a Buzz Killington reference on MY forum? Dude, you sir, you sir get like, 20 shillings. Bonus props to you man. Bonus props.

Anyways

Lu Chen is a BAMF because he has to balance being extremely annoying with his otherwise lack of aggressive options (which will change in the future, I'm sure). Also, it's not like Lu Chen is a mill character; even he has to attack to win.

Like I said, never in a fighting game will somebody not attack. Even those who turtle for time have to attack to get the health advantage and thus win.

Buzz Killington is awesome. And a huge buzz kill.

Regardless, once the next set drops, assuming by this point that Amy and Xianghua's support have water, I'm going to take a gander at a Lu Chen build but I'm unsure of how it will turn out at the moment.