Dont you just hate those people who just buil and build and build, like were still playing legacy? I hate people who turtle the whole game and then just wait and spam you with like a barrage of attacks, or even just one that you just cannot freaking block!!!

Like turtling with Hilde until you can dualweild someone for game..... Wow sounds like fun times to me. I started playing again this format because i heard assholes werent gonna build the whole game and that OMG attacks were going to be played in a fighting game.

What exactly is the point of stalling...... It makes the game less fun and makes new people not wanna play. If you were told you were playing a fighting based game whould you wanna sit and play a turtle Hilde deck, or any other charecter like that??

There is one person at our store that consistently doing it EVER week and low and behold he wins...... WTF

P.S. Who made Astrid???? Did they quit?

Stalling and building currently is a lot harder to do than in block 3. I know in my play group it almost doesn't exist. Most games are over after 4 or 5 turns max, unless playing Astrid in which case it could go on longer than that. Heihachi, King and Paul Phoenix are very popular here, and usually games don't last all that long. I guess the trick is to try and kill your opponent before they can get a chance to turtle.

Yeah, buddy, i hear you. However, i have to agree that "Turtling" is a lot harder to do in NewFS than it used to be. Aggro is the name of the game right now, and i wonder at which characters are run in your store besides Hilde and Astrid, and what those set ups look like. There are plenty of characters out there right now that can run over a turtling Hilde, and even Astrid.

Do not confuse me with saying that Hilde and Astrid are not good; that is NOT what i'm saying.

However, these decks come to mind when i think of T2 or T3 kills: Stun Paul Phoenix, Chaos Heihachi, Jin Kazama (Chaos w/The Rites), Siegfried off Good, Fire Zi Mei with Furies...

I played at my store championships yesterday...had a bad-day myself, but saw plenty of decks that killed by T2, including Siegfried. Chaos Omar and Good/Life Lu Chen were the top 2 decks at our store, and finished ahead of two Dual Wielding Hilde decks.

Step 1 : Play King

Step 2 : Throw her ass each turn.

Step 3 : Win.

RockStar said:

I hear what ur saying. But idk we msut be doing something wrong, Every other deck there is Agro. We have pretty awesome builds of Jin, Kazuya, Steve fox, King even ocasionally. But its seems like Astrid and Hilde just turtle and turtle. Or he just gets a super sick start. I mean our store isnt a bunch of scrubs and one good player, We have good decks, and really good players. It just seems like those decks are pretty over powered.

And yeah playing king sound like a good strategy but, no thx. Good tip though

The HAWK said:

And yeah playing king sound like a good strategy but, no thx. Good tip though

Another thing you can do is use the patent pending Target X strategy of "What's a board?"

Hunger for Souls 2nd turn is nasty awesome.

Homme Chapeau said:

The HAWK said:

And yeah playing king sound like a good strategy but, no thx. Good tip though

Another thing you can do is use the patent pending Target X strategy of "What's a board?"

Hunger for Souls 2nd turn is nasty awesome.

HAHAHA... I love that strategy... wait a second... no I don't.

There are only a few ways to beat Astrid...

1) outbuild her

2) only throw attacks that can't be blocked, and keep enough cards to block with if at middle/late game

3) be Astrid

4) be King

5) torn hero helps

6) wait for her to attack and exhaust herself then counter with a 0TK of your own (see 1 above, play the 'right' number of attacks and foundations so you have the ability to 'build'. Many decks out there run so many attacks they have turns where they draw into 4 of them and only have 1-2 foundations...)

Ok... obviously this is a very pessimistic view of Astrid. And there are many characters (practically all) that can and do beat her in the right circumstances, but hardly '50%' of the time.

If you can't beat Hilde you aren't throwing enough damage early or using enough attacks with stun on them... Hilde is one of the few characters that can do 1) above, and because of this it isn't surprising that after turn 3 you are going downhill with your damage potential. Your deck needs to have a way to toss out a lot of damage in one turn and some sort of tech to help you draw into or pull it off.

This game isn't simply play attack, play attack, sometimes block attack, = random winner. There are still characters that are by and far better at things other than attacking. Astrid, oddly enough has a huge damage pump ability and support that helps her build quite quickly, the best of both worlds phenomenom is what stacks everything in her favor.

- dut

y does astrid have her own teir?

ubber broke totaly not balanced with other characters reversaling with any weapon just because.The pumping its damage by 1 for every 2 weapons in your discard. What the hell is up with foundations being weapons what u cant hit me with a foundation. ne way a astrid player dosent even really have to have a good build by just using her support u can pawn people. She can draw cards stack to get free speed on top of the fact that ur getting reversaled by pommel smash for +12 damage effectively ruining your turn and make it all the more easy to run you over next turn with a bassicaly free enhance maybe she should commit for +12 damage i dunno maybe its just me maybe it should b ok for one character to just own face maybe ... maybe ill make an astrid deck and be a ****** just had to get that out im sure ive kinda strayed from the topic.

also hilde + duel weilding + wrath of heaven = gg

not a fan of two card combos

Sean Matsuda said:

Astrid shares a tier with King, and is very close to Zi Mei, Hilde, Hata, Heiachi, etc. There is always going to be a character that stands out... Yes, the abilities on her are 'almost' impossible to address without a change in playstyle. Sadly, a change in playstyle does beat and compete with her and often.

The combo with Hilde is 25 damage and requires a) 2 checks in deck, b) passing a 8 and then a 5 (usually we are talking turn 3), c) likely means you are using a good deck or else you aren't playing much after the attack. 25 damage won't kill most characters, and by turn 3 most characters will have Hilde defense out, i.e. thier own damage reduction, one of the many answers to Hilde's one-shots, or will have killed her turn 3 (if they went first).

Every character has combos, or strong combinations of cards that win games. King+path, Ivy+path, Zi+path, Heiachi+spinning demon, Astrid+weapon attack, etc.

You should be glad the 2 card combo that the Hilde you are quoting runs 2 check and 4 check, involves the use of an action card, and two cards, neither of which have block modifiers... Why haven't you killed her yet?!?!

- dut

dutpotd said:

18 vitality?

That shouldn't last longer than T3. If you can't do 18 in three turns,you deserve to lose.

dutpotd said:

Im sry but honestly u'd know why they arent dead yet. It's the reason he started the discussion. Getting built upon over and over again while this person keeps easy blocks in their hand and clogs ur pool with know when to talk. I mean i do understand that she has really low life. But either ur wrong with the 25 dmg or this person is cheating like a beast. That's just how i feel.

Wow, I must be the oddball Astrid player. I don't turtle. None of us at my venue really do. We tend to end games by no later than T4. If a game goes longer than that, we're having a bad day. How, and more importantly, why, are people trying to turtle with Astrid? I find it much more effective to just keep attacking after T2.

As dumb as I may sound for saying this, they turtle with Astrid by... doing nothing.

Crazy concept as that may be, an Astrid off of Fire has Shadowar, Stand Off, Toughest in the Universe, The Ultimate Team and Paid to Protect ideally (that's how I would build it if I had the cards for it). Additionally she may run Valkyrja's Shield for more damage reduction, meaning she will probably not take damage from attacks she chooses not to block.

Let's talk blocking now. Paid to Protect makes it so she can block any speed attack. With nearly nonexistent reusable speed pump aside from Eisserne Drossel and Robes of the Grandmaster, she will probably use it to block the one attack she wouldn't be able to block due to the speed pumps. Then what happens? Reversal with any weapon.

It can be something simple and crippling, such as a Pommel Smash (to thankfully commit the troublesome card X and also stun 1) or something painfully obvious and blatantly game-ending like a Raven's Claw (I have no effing idea why people still don't use this **** thing!) or Odin's Wrath, or for all we care, a Cleave. Proceed to (probably draw off of Relentless or ditch cards from the top with Envoy of the Queen) speed up with Glanzende Nova and Frischer Himmel, pump with Astrid, block or die. You'd think she could only do this once a turn, but oh no. She can donut your first few attacks, then decide to block, reversal with deadly damage for nearly unblockable speed and call it good game.

So tell me, what sort of attacking strategy did she have, then? She just sat there and abused her continuous effect to have reversals ALWAYS in hand, all while building enough foundations to block and reversal multiple times if needed, using the draw power of Financial Troubles and Glanzende Nova and Frischer Himmel to build faster than her opponent.

Astrid is a turtle. Sure, her E could be played in an aggro deck, but having that one continuous ability makes her a big fat turtle. *insert whatever sound a turtle makes* weeerrrhllp?

There is only 1 way to defeat turtle Hilde. Using the might power of ASTAROTH!!!!!!!!! (trademark).

If youre fighting against a turtle then he has massive damage pump on the cheap, oh i only have 5 cards in my staging area and you have 15? sure, ill take +10 damage on my throw for commiting 1 foundation.

Hilde is too fragile. She can be T1'd with the rites (4,4,5 for checks) and in a perfect world so can astrid if you add an ascending zephyr. The stun1 on 1st rite helps that early on, especially since most astrids like to an asset T1.

Also if you are having a problem with hilde/astrid...build rasho. He says "no" to both of them.

dutpotd said:

That cracked me up, dude.

Homme Chapeau said:

Does nobody in your meta play any measure of defense? I love when people say stuff like this, as if there's no way someone could actually defend against attacks or perhaps Hilde's opponent did not draw into many attacks. I've had decks that were composed of 50% attacks and still not draw any until turn 3 or 4.

ROTBI said:

ALL defenses in B4 can be easily bypassed by any aggro deck worth it's salt.

The HAWK said:

The HAWK said:

Your not going to like Kilik then. Don't have a store championship. I will have to agree with what others have said about King. Nelson combo is hella strong and free throws just to throw is to good to be true. What I can tell you is that need to post what your playing for us to see if there is an issue with your deck. Key elements that were revealed latter need to be exposed about the other players deck. The first is what symbols is he playing off of. Second what are the key foundations, attacks, and assets is he using. Lastly it seems you want an easy fix to the situation. Sadly I don't think there is any.

ROTBI said:

Sounds about right to me. Im pretty sure me not winning by turn three doesnt make me a bad player. And yeah Not drawing into attacks definately can and does happen. And dont get me wrong i didnt start the post to auto hate and state that hilde is broke, I dont think that even a little. Its about people turtleing and shellling. And if the longer they turtle and shell the less effective an agro deck is gonna be against them. Thats my opinion i guess.

And Logos not really looking for a major immediate solution. My deck is posted though. Its an ALL Steve Fox deck. Its a really good build from what i can see and i honestly have no interest in changing charecters, so the king solution, though effective, not for me.

ROTBI said:

Outside of Dut himself? No. They're a bunch of fun loving guys who are all about balls out aggro.

We have a meta exchange program. I've gone there. They've come here. We've hung out at Can Nats and Worlds. Great guys, they're a blast to play UFS with.

Building Steve Fox, and you can't destroy a Hilde deck?

Let me go take a look at your decklist.

I would totally kick it up to 20x attacks, and it might lend itself to being more aggressive to the point where they can't block as easily. Especially when blocks are only on attacks for the most part, you can force their own attacks out of their hand.

I LEARNED IT BY WATCHING YOU ALRIGHT!? I LEARNED IT BY WATCHING YOU!

Does nobody in your meta play any measure of defense? I love when people say stuff like this, as if there's no way someone could actually defend against attacks or perhaps Hilde's opponent did not draw into many attacks. I've had decks that were composed of 50% attacks and still not draw any until turn 3 or 4.

Defence... what's that???

Seriously though, where I play we don't really have a lot of defensive decks. There is the occasional White Crane, Astrid who tends to play somewhat slowly and I play Rashotep regularly (even my build is pretty much aggro) but most of the decks that are played are spank happy, and by that I mean Heihachi, Tira, Astaroth and others who can hit hard and fast. I'm not saying that defensive decks don't exist, I just don't see a whole lot of them, especially since the game rotated.

The HAWK said:

I don't think not winning by turn 3 makes you a bad player. And your deck is pretty solid. Problem is, of All you lose a lot of the insane damage pumps that Fire offers (and Chaos, to a much lesser extent with Steve anyway).

Yeah, people turtle and shell. Still. However, it's not nearly as bad as it could be. Not even close, really, especially if you remember Green/Grey Wall decks of old. And I do think overall, aggro is far far better. Even Hilde is a hybrid deck, not a pure control deck. I'm not sure there is such a thing as "pure" control in the format right now. It's all about pressure. Your deck maybe doesn't put enough pressure on Hilde. I would say currently most aggro decks me and J. have built consistently deal 12-15 damage in the 2nd turn. For Hilde, that's one step from death.

NOT saying you are doing anything wrong at all, merely suggesting that perhaps in your specific build of Steve Fox there are things you can do to speed up your kill. For example, I think Relaxing Model is okay at best, however for those same numbers Best Friends is far superior in your deck, every attack you have can make use of it and at worst it's a +2 damage pump. Maxing out on Bloodline Rebellions and POTMS if you have them help as well. And I usually run decks at 18 attacks these days, it makes drawing them much easier and killing that much faster.

Just some suggestions based on your decklist, without knowing how the Hilde ran, hope that helps.

Antigoth said:

Thanks for the kind words. We do have a bunch of guys that are balls to the wall. We also have some players that still like playing grey wars. I'm running close to 18-24 attacks in some of the decks that I have built in the last little while.

It's fun playing at Antigoth's group they are a great group of players. I wouldn't of mind going back for a visit in the near future to see how things have changed since NEWUFS

Also Dut normally plays a bit on the grey wars also. He has been to to play Orange war only if he knows that he can kill you in one shot. Turn 4-6.

Plus he is known by some of the other players as Solitaire Man. Likes to play games by himself while his opponent watches.