This sounds more like a problem with the player than the character to me, try to remind him "this isn't what astartes do really do you want to do this?" when he draws a weapon for no reason in front of the Emperor for all intents and purposes

Something I occasionally do is give the PC a roll of, for instance, common lore adeptus astartes with a big bonus. Then, when and if he makes it, you (the GM) tell the player his character knows he is not to do this. That will give you an idea of whether the player is jerking you around. In SOME case, and I'm not saying that is the case here, players are unfamiliar with the way things work outside of a video game (actual roleplaying) and need to nudged along. I believe that is for the GM to decide.

Regarding getting in a fight with the keeper, should the keeper have realized how the librarian intended to use the force sword?

More fun! I don't think that being unfamiliar with Adeptus Astartes is really an issue here. Each player has two characters and he also plays a Devastator that is far more conventional and not a way to troll the GM than the Librarian is.

The character has now digged himself far deeper into the pit. The Librarian I mentioned before was told that he wasn't allowed to use his psychic powers outside the Librarium's wards by direct order of the ship's Keeper. This "naturally" led him to go there, bring a couple of serfs with him and test the system to the point of standing outside the Librarium, in full view of a camera on the wall, and push until he got a Peril of the Warp to break the camera. When the Keeper showed up with a psy-dampener, and two more Space Marines to put the psy-dampener on him they were met with a scene which I think the player made 100% to troll me, and when they told him that he would wear the psy-dampener and advanced on him, he attacked them with a pushed Smite and did great damage to them and gav one of the Space Marines a critical damage. After this the three Space Marines jumped the Librarian, kicked the living **** out of him, and put the psy-dampener on. If I recall these events have cost his character two Fate Points so far. Sooner or later, he will run out of Fate Points and he can either die or be shipped back home in disgrace.

The Librarian is now reduced to now being allowed to leave his cell when not on a mission, has -9 in Renown, not allowed any weapons but a combat knife and a bolter with standard ammunuition and will await further penance once the ship returns to Erioch. His Kill-Team is pretty pissed with him, to say the least.

More will without a doubt follow.

Ooooh, boy, that's trolling all right. I don't even know what to say, the laundry list of calculated infractions, disobediences and outright offences is getting too long for trying to play it straight anymore. So, well, troll him back A penitent tattoo on his face jumps to mind, its shape of course entirely up to you, and let's not forget the long and invasive physical and psychic checkups awaiting (while wearing a gimp suite). He now lives basically on the Keeper's sufferance, so anything goes.

As for keeping it straight, the Keeper at this point will doubtlessly suspect corruption, because ignorance and stupidity can be forgiven at some point, but disobeying direct orders and wantonly attacking brothers and officers is something totally different. If he absolutely must use the Libby, I have no doubt the rest of the Kill-Team will have standing orders to put a bullet in the back of his head if he so much as sneezes without express orders, and I'd wager they will happily oblige.

Everyone who knows of his actions will regard him as a probable Traitor. At best, he's a Marine who's snapped and lost it in a major way.

He should be stripped of armor when not on mission*, and wearing the equivalent of one of those explosive collars that get issued to penal legions at all times - possibly as an implant. Hardened against psychic activity and/or rigged to automatically go off if it detects the wearer using psychic powers unless the controller has authorized power use (authorization can be manually revoked and if not manually revoked or extended, authorization auto-lapses after a short period of time, and any powers being sustained set it off). Being too far away from the controller sets it off - and even if in range, the controller needs to be given the right code or set of codes every period of time. Attempting to tamper with the controller automatically sets off the explosive charge(s).

*Assuming that he's even allowed to go on missions - his actions are such that he's arguably far enough gone that he wouldn't be allowed out on normal operations. The Blood Angels keep the fellows that succumb irretrievably to the Primarch's Curse locked up except when they get let out for suicide missions, right? Something along those lines? Something like that is very much on the table - near the top of the list, actually.

This character is pretty far gone into "remove from play" territory. If he continues that kind of behavior, the character should be removed from player control as an NPC, and locked up until he can be returned to his home Chapter. Assuming, of course, he isn't terminated for treason.

The player should then be advised to make a new, replacement character who is a book-Chapter, probably not a Librarian, and definitely a more congenial/less confrontational Chapter. Assuming, of course, that you want to keep the player.

he attacked them with a pushed Smite and did great damage to them and gav one of the Space Marines a critical damage.

First, I'm a bit surprised they surviving a pushed smite... tough guys. (Or his psy rating is ****)

Second, I'm surprised the librarian survived this. If one of my players would attack other loyal marines with a pushed smite (without obvious reasons) they wouldn't kick the **** out of him, they would blast his head off. Without discussion.

On the other hand, I don't know your player, so if he's trying to troll you, maybe you should show him that you are the game master and troll back till he's sick of trolling ;-)

On the other hand, I don't know your player, so if he's trying to troll you, maybe you should show him that you are the game master and troll back till he's sick of trolling ;-)

I agree. Don't forget there's always the perennial classic Flying Amazonian ***** Fish option

For those unfamiliar with the creature, the fish is used as an example in an article about character building on 1d4chan: "Don't be afraid to give the GM things like enemies or a bad rep that will **** you over in play. If you have trouble bringing yourself to do this, look at it this way: The chances are that the GM already knows about the Amazonian ***** Fish, and he already has the power to **** you over in any way he likes, up to and including Flying Amazonian ***** Fish. So when you write that you have a powerful rival, don't think of it as giving him ideas about how to have that rival **** you; think of it as distracting him from the Amazonian ***** Fish option."

More fun! I don't think that being unfamiliar with Adeptus Astartes is really an issue here. Each player has two characters and he also plays a Devastator that is far more conventional and not a way to troll the GM than the Librarian is.

The character has now digged himself far deeper into the pit. The Librarian I mentioned before was told that he wasn't allowed to use his psychic powers outside the Librarium's wards by direct order of the ship's Keeper. This "naturally" led him to go there, bring a couple of serfs with him and test the system to the point of standing outside the Librarium, in full view of a camera on the wall, and push until he got a Peril of the Warp to break the camera. When the Keeper showed up with a psy-dampener, and two more Space Marines to put the psy-dampener on him they were met with a scene which I think the player made 100% to troll me, and when they told him that he would wear the psy-dampener and advanced on him, he attacked them with a pushed Smite and did great damage to them and gav one of the Space Marines a critical damage. After this the three Space Marines jumped the Librarian, kicked the living **** out of him, and put the psy-dampener on. If I recall these events have cost his character two Fate Points so far. Sooner or later, he will run out of Fate Points and he can either die or be shipped back home in disgrace.

The Librarian is now reduced to now being allowed to leave his cell when not on a mission, has -9 in Renown, not allowed any weapons but a combat knife and a bolter with standard ammunuition and will await further penance once the ship returns to Erioch. His Kill-Team is pretty pissed with him, to say the least.

More will without a doubt follow.

Has the librarian character tried to defend his actions in any way? Given any sort of explanation? And has he been interrogated for an explanation regardless?

Honestly, I'm surprised he hasn't been locked into a psy-warded cell, awaiting further investigation or execution.

Ooooh, boy, that's trolling all right. I don't even know what to say, the laundry list of calculated infractions, disobediences and outright offences is getting too long for trying to play it straight anymore. So, well, troll him back A penitent tattoo on his face jumps to mind, its shape of course entirely up to you, and let's not forget the long and invasive physical and psychic checkups awaiting (while wearing a gimp suite). He now lives basically on the Keeper's sufferance, so anything goes.

As for keeping it straight, the Keeper at this point will doubtlessly suspect corruption, because ignorance and stupidity can be forgiven at some point, but disobeying direct orders and wantonly attacking brothers and officers is something totally different. If he absolutely must use the Libby, I have no doubt the rest of the Kill-Team will have standing orders to put a bullet in the back of his head if he so much as sneezes without express orders, and I'd wager they will happily oblige.

A pentinent tattoo would be really nice. Maybe a "I am a ****" should be tattooed across his face or, "kick me!". I'm feeling he's kind of going for that level in this character.The idea of giving the squad the right to execute him if they consider it necessary.

Everyone who knows of his actions will regard him as a probable Traitor. At best, he's a Marine who's snapped and lost it in a major way.

He should be stripped of armor when not on mission*, and wearing the equivalent of one of those explosive collars that get issued to penal legions at all times - possibly as an implant. Hardened against psychic activity and/or rigged to automatically go off if it detects the wearer using psychic powers unless the controller has authorized power use (authorization can be manually revoked and if not manually revoked or extended, authorization auto-lapses after a short period of time, and any powers being sustained set it off). Being too far away from the controller sets it off - and even if in range, the controller needs to be given the right code or set of codes every period of time. Attempting to tamper with the controller automatically sets off the explosive charge(s).

*Assuming that he's even allowed to go on missions - his actions are such that he's arguably far enough gone that he wouldn't be allowed out on normal operations. The Blood Angels keep the fellows that succumb irretrievably to the Primarch's Curse locked up except when they get let out for suicide missions, right? Something along those lines? Something like that is very much on the table - near the top of the list, actually.

This character is pretty far gone into "remove from play" territory. If he continues that kind of behavior, the character should be removed from player control as an NPC, and locked up until he can be returned to his home Chapter. Assuming, of course, he isn't terminated for treason.

The player should then be advised to make a new, replacement character who is a book-Chapter, probably not a Librarian, and definitely a more congenial/less confrontational Chapter. Assuming, of course, that you want to keep the player.

I agree that the social penalties will be severe, but he's already doing his best to freak out or piss off everyone around him. At one point while on a mission the Techmarine was fixing a Land Speeder that had caught some hits from a couple of Ork Big Shootas. The Librarian, now with a psy-dampener, sneaked in and took an oppertunity to spread some dead and crushed small birds over the Land Speeder. I don't recall if this was some kind of offer to the machine spirit or if the Librarian thought it made the Land Speeder prettier. Needless to say the player of the Techmarine sighed, then the Techmarine swept the stuff off the Speeder and told the Librarian to **** off.

In regards to dying, I've decided that when someone does something stupied that would have them sent home, locked up or whatever, it costs a Fate Point for them to not go into this punishment, and so the character is burning Fate Points like crazy compared to everyone else.

There's been some talk of a replacement character and the player has mentioned a Tactical Marine, but no Chapter yet, so he might pick the Minotaurs or Flesh Tearers or some other crazies for all I know.

he attacked them with a pushed Smite and did great damage to them and gav one of the Space Marines a critical damage.

First, I'm a bit surprised they surviving a pushed smite... tough guys. (Or his psy rating is ****)

Second, I'm surprised the librarian survived this. If one of my players would attack other loyal marines with a pushed smite (without obvious reasons) they wouldn't kick the **** out of him, they would blast his head off. Without discussion.

On the other hand, I don't know your player, so if he's trying to troll you, maybe you should show him that you are the game master and troll back till he's sick of trolling ;-)

Well, its was a Rank 1 Librarian who attacked three fully geared up Space Marines, one on rank 2, one on rank 3 and one on rank 5. And he didn't roll very well.

On the other hand, I don't know your player, so if he's trying to troll you, maybe you should show him that you are the game master and troll back till he's sick of trolling ;-)

I agree. Don't forget there's always the perennial classic Flying Amazonian ***** Fish option

For those unfamiliar with the creature, the fish is used as an example in an article about character building on 1d4chan: "Don't be afraid to give the GM things like enemies or a bad rep that will **** you over in play. If you have trouble bringing yourself to do this, look at it this way: The chances are that the GM already knows about the Amazonian ***** Fish, and he already has the power to **** you over in any way he likes, up to and including Flying Amazonian ***** Fish. So when you write that you have a powerful rival, don't think of it as giving him ideas about how to have that rival **** you; think of it as distracting him from the Amazonian ***** Fish option."

Flying Amazonian ***** Fish? They got those in a holding cell of Erioch, right? I'm kind of waiting to try them out on him.

More fun! I don't think that being unfamiliar with Adeptus Astartes is really an issue here. Each player has two characters and he also plays a Devastator that is far more conventional and not a way to troll the GM than the Librarian is.

The character has now digged himself far deeper into the pit. The Librarian I mentioned before was told that he wasn't allowed to use his psychic powers outside the Librarium's wards by direct order of the ship's Keeper. This "naturally" led him to go there, bring a couple of serfs with him and test the system to the point of standing outside the Librarium, in full view of a camera on the wall, and push until he got a Peril of the Warp to break the camera. When the Keeper showed up with a psy-dampener, and two more Space Marines to put the psy-dampener on him they were met with a scene which I think the player made 100% to troll me, and when they told him that he would wear the psy-dampener and advanced on him, he attacked them with a pushed Smite and did great damage to them and gav one of the Space Marines a critical damage. After this the three Space Marines jumped the Librarian, kicked the living **** out of him, and put the psy-dampener on. If I recall these events have cost his character two Fate Points so far. Sooner or later, he will run out of Fate Points and he can either die or be shipped back home in disgrace.

The Librarian is now reduced to now being allowed to leave his cell when not on a mission, has -9 in Renown, not allowed any weapons but a combat knife and a bolter with standard ammunuition and will await further penance once the ship returns to Erioch. His Kill-Team is pretty pissed with him, to say the least.

More will without a doubt follow.

Has the librarian character tried to defend his actions in any way? Given any sort of explanation? And has he been interrogated for an explanation regardless?

Honestly, I'm surprised he hasn't been locked into a psy-warded cell, awaiting further investigation or execution.

He has escaped the logical consequences of his actions by burning Fate Points so far. But he'll run out of them sooner or later.

In regards to explinations I don't think that the Librarian has done much but laughed like a freak and smiled like a creep. The player tried to angle it with self-defense in that the other three Space Marines were coming against him and that left him no voice but to resort to violence. The previous history of his insubordination and breaking direct orders and the Keeper's legal status as an officer of the Deathwatch on his own ship were not considered enough as factors to be taken into account. I however recall essentially laughing off his explination, telling him how flawed it was, then that he would have to burn another Fate Point he if wanted his character to remain.

Flying Amazonian ***** Fish? They got those in a holding cell of Erioch, right? I'm kind of waiting to try them out on him.

They hold all manner of vile xenos, why wouldn't they have the most evil of all , in every single version, flying type included?

Your Librarian guy must be a good friend - based on what you told us so far, I'd boot the character from the game. I wouldn't let one player ruin the fun of all the others with arbitrary bullcrap like that, but admittedly we don't know all the circumstances or the dynamics of your group. Anyway, if you ever need further ideas to mess with him, we're here for you

To be honest, I'd step it up a notch; if he's essentially under house arrest when not on mission, and at basically zero reknown, then take the logical next step. The next time the Kill-team returns to Erioch, a chaplain from his home chapter is waiting for him, with an honour guard bodyguard.

He has this chance to persuade them not to drag him back in penitent chains. And no, he needs to do it by roleplaying, not burning off a fate point.

I can see the use of fate points to avoid things apart from outright death. I've allowed players to burn them to avoid as-good-as-dead fates such as mutation. So I can see a justification for a character "pushing his luck" in universe (i.e. burning fate points to avoid the appropriate level of punishment he's earning).

That said, the player seems determined to have his character commit suicide-by-proxy. It's baffling to me. I think Magnus' suggestion would be an apt one, whether or not the character is on his last fate point or not.

(assuming you can talk to the player, figure out what's up, and have a reason to keep him in the group) Give the character an offer he can't refuse.

For the OP character. "In light of your achievements, personal abilities, etc etc" promote him to squad leader of a squad of all Space Wolf scouts. Embarrassment of being treated as one of them, not something he can really protest over since it is promotion, and he gets to hang out with Marines who can drink him under the table and still perform their duties. Maybe even have the other players play the scouts, do a mission or two, then have the character go back to the regular group.

For a Librarian, so many possibilities. Send him to a small one-person watchpost, cause the person in it needs to be able to communicate psychically. No force weapon, no armor, "post is too small to put up a fight, so all you get is this self-destruct button" The kill team could deliver him. Or when he runs out of fate points, he is obviously corrupted by Chaos so have him possessed by a Tzeentch demon, or turn him into a chaos spawn. The kill team has to stop it before too much damage to the ship.

There is two reasons for such a thing to happen.

Reason A: The player has no clue or there are actuall RP reasons to act like that.

Reason B: The player is just destructive.

As for reason A you can work with a lot of things and it depends only partially on the player. Just because you are new you cant get away with everything. There is a core rulebook full of advice how to play a Marine and if you are still unsure you keep the ball low and dont pressure for extremes. Also this is the fair approach to other players. In that regard there are many penances you can enact and being reduced to the minimum equipment is nice, adds flair and makes a newcomer think. For extreme cases renown should be stripped and access for certain classes too. A trouble maker will never be a Chaplain or a Champion. For that kind of duty you are a paragon with a pure white vest.

Outright attacking another Astartes, even worse an Officer WITH the intent to kill will get you executed. No questions asked.

And you cant imagine the kind of letter his Chapter will recieve after this. Quite likely they will "gift" quite a lot of wargear to the Deathwatch to keep up the good fight and stay on good terms with the ******* Ordo Xenos. Not everyone can pull a Space Wolve move without sanctions.

For Reason B there is only one way: Have a friggin clear word with that player. If he does not change ditch him. Seriously. Trolling forth and back destroys the entire game and wont achieve anything. Either you play Deathwatch or just some pumpin dudes with big guns.

To fall out of character is always bad yet that is why I would make sure that every player understands what an astartes is beforehand. The trouble is that, intentionally or not, this always destroys RP.

If someone behaves like that you as a GM AND THE OTHER PLAYERS have two choices. React accordingly and that might have dire consequences for the troublemaker or not react accordingly, yet at that point they suffered for they had to limit their own character already and as a GM i always protect the players that CAN play their role and want to do so just as I expect it myself as a player. If that results in shooting someone may it be.

In such circumstances I would not even allow fatepoints. Once you crossed a certain line there is no way to get out. They wont just let your body lie there and act the next day like nothing ever happened.

Flying Amazonian ***** Fish? They got those in a holding cell of Erioch, right? I'm kind of waiting to try them out on him.

They hold all manner of vile xenos, why wouldn't they have the most evil of all , in every single version, flying type included?

Your Librarian guy must be a good friend - based on what you told us so far, I'd boot the character from the game. I wouldn't let one player ruin the fun of all the others with arbitrary bullcrap like that, but admittedly we don't know all the circumstances or the dynamics of your group. Anyway, if you ever need further ideas to mess with him, we're here for you

Thanks. Next time he's in Erioch, its time for the Amazonian fishes. We'll see what more fun stuff I can get together from him.

To be honest, I'd step it up a notch; if he's essentially under house arrest when not on mission, and at basically zero reknown, then take the logical next step. The next time the Kill-team returns to Erioch, a chaplain from his home chapter is waiting for him, with an honour guard bodyguard.

He has this chance to persuade them not to drag him back in penitent chains. And no, he needs to do it by roleplaying, not burning off a fate point.

That would work for a sensible Chapter but the character plays a custom Chapter and has specifically stated that they don't give a **** about what the Deathwatch, inquisition or anyone else thinks of them. Yes, that's the player's deal on them. So effectively no response from his Chapter, expect that possibly they will complain to the Deathwatch of the Librarian being treated unfairly and according to the player could well threaten the Deathwatch to withdraw support entirely if they don't get their way. I'm not sure the Deathwatch would consider it a loss, however.

I can see the use of fate points to avoid things apart from outright death. I've allowed players to burn them to avoid as-good-as-dead fates such as mutation. So I can see a justification for a character "pushing his luck" in universe (i.e. burning fate points to avoid the appropriate level of punishment he's earning).

That said, the player seems determined to have his character commit suicide-by-proxy. It's baffling to me. I think Magnus' suggestion would be an apt one, whether or not the character is on his last fate point or not.

See above. I'd love to do it, but its an essentially fish-Malkavian Chapter so, reason is kind of out through the window.

(assuming you can talk to the player, figure out what's up, and have a reason to keep him in the group) Give the character an offer he can't refuse.

For the OP character. "In light of your achievements, personal abilities, etc etc" promote him to squad leader of a squad of all Space Wolf scouts. Embarrassment of being treated as one of them, not something he can really protest over since it is promotion, and he gets to hang out with Marines who can drink him under the table and still perform their duties. Maybe even have the other players play the scouts, do a mission or two, then have the character go back to the regular group.

For a Librarian, so many possibilities. Send him to a small one-person watchpost, cause the person in it needs to be able to communicate psychically. No force weapon, no armor, "post is too small to put up a fight, so all you get is this self-destruct button" The kill team could deliver him. Or when he runs out of fate points, he is obviously corrupted by Chaos so have him possessed by a Tzeentch demon, or turn him into a chaos spawn. The kill team has to stop it before too much damage to the ship.

Main problem is that the player hates the Space Wolves due to a crush on the Thousands Sons and Tzeentch. Sending him on "mission" could also work, but I might see if he can't be fitted with the Space Wolves as he seems to kind of be like someone they could tolerate better than most other Chapters would.

There is two reasons for such a thing to happen.

Reason A: The player has no clue or there are actuall RP reasons to act like that.

Reason B: The player is just destructive.

As for reason A you can work with a lot of things and it depends only partially on the player. Just because you are new you cant get away with everything. There is a core rulebook full of advice how to play a Marine and if you are still unsure you keep the ball low and dont pressure for extremes. Also this is the fair approach to other players. In that regard there are many penances you can enact and being reduced to the minimum equipment is nice, adds flair and makes a newcomer think. For extreme cases renown should be stripped and access for certain classes too. A trouble maker will never be a Chaplain or a Champion. For that kind of duty you are a paragon with a pure white vest.

Outright attacking another Astartes, even worse an Officer WITH the intent to kill will get you executed. No questions asked.

And you cant imagine the kind of letter his Chapter will recieve after this. Quite likely they will "gift" quite a lot of wargear to the Deathwatch to keep up the good fight and stay on good terms with the ******* Ordo Xenos. Not everyone can pull a Space Wolve move without sanctions.

For Reason B there is only one way: Have a friggin clear word with that player. If he does not change ditch him. Seriously. Trolling forth and back destroys the entire game and wont achieve anything. Either you play Deathwatch or just some pumpin dudes with big guns.

To fall out of character is always bad yet that is why I would make sure that every player understands what an astartes is beforehand. The trouble is that, intentionally or not, this always destroys RP.

If someone behaves like that you as a GM AND THE OTHER PLAYERS have two choices. React accordingly and that might have dire consequences for the troublemaker or not react accordingly, yet at that point they suffered for they had to limit their own character already and as a GM i always protect the players that CAN play their role and want to do so just as I expect it myself as a player. If that results in shooting someone may it be.

In such circumstances I would not even allow fatepoints. Once you crossed a certain line there is no way to get out. They wont just let your body lie there and act the next day like nothing ever happened.

Well option A is out of the question due to earlier experience and option B won't be done due to earlier out-of-game stuff. As I think that I've mentioned, we go back many years and I owe him for out-of-game stuff he's done for me. And the other players have actually somehow gotten used to him as well. I ain't no walk in the park but this is what I've got to work with.

Anyway, last session went fairly well as the Librarian didn't cause troubles, outrages or something else like it for many, many hours of playing. I was actually, mistaken as it had turned out, thinkinig that he was starting to get his act together, untill he reverted to earlier behavior. The Novamarine squad leader said that he wasn't sure what the codex would have him do in a situation after a failed roll. And then the Librarian cut in and said that "Roberto Guilleman can show his Codex Astartes upp his tight ass. Sons of the Night (Librarian's Chapter) are better than Roberto Guilleman in every way. Roberto Guilleman is marginally better than the Traitor Primarchs and Horus but that's it!" and the player did so while gleefully laughting and smiling. You could tell the player found this hilarious. To this also came that he a few moments later told the Techmarine that Techmarines are unclean, have polluted their bodies and their existance is an insult to the God-Emperor.

So consequences for this? Both Novamarine and Techmarine have pentitioned the Keeper of the ship they are based on for a duel of honor. I'm thinking that every Codex abiding character will probably treat the character like ****, those from divergent Chapters will hold him in contempt while those from unique organization Chapters will feel he crossed the line. Only the Space Wolves could possibly not feel anger at this blatant affrton to good customs among the Astartes. And that his renown will go down a great deal, but I'm not sure how much. Possiblyt 2d10 or something, or be at zero untill he has attoned for his words - which may take a many, many missions.

But most importantly, how would these duels of honor go? The two marines who wants duels of honor are going for "to death/fate point!" and the fight will be without armor and with combat knives. But I'd dearly like to hear more ideas about this. And also a different thing. Since two Space Marines are pentitioning for duelling the same guy, how will this go? Do only one of them get to fight or is there two duels in a row or what?

Looking forward to your replies.

You are in a rough spot here. The player is actively undercutting the fun in the campaign and not role-playing a space marine. I am sorry, anyone who openly calls Guillman a traitor and decries all techmarines as unclean is spouting heresy and should arrested and executed. I don't think this even calls for honor duels. At this point, the can just cut him down. If he is representative of his chapter where they 'just don't give a crap' about what other organizations think, then none of his chapter belongs in the Deathwatch because they cannot be trusted to maintain the secrets they learn there.

Honestly, the Imperium of Man is not forgiving about this kind of thing. His home-brew chapter as he has described it will not last for long with the enemies they are going to make. When you piss off the Ultramarines and all their related chapters, the Inquisition, and the Cult of Mars, that doesn't leave much in the way of friends to support you.

However, I get that you are in a rough spot here with your strong history with the player. However, if he is your friend, than he can show you enough respect to stop acting like an idiot. I get that he wants to feel powerful by playing an edgy character, but honestly the reasonable response to his actions is simple execution.

Good luck with this.

I wasn't going to wade in on this, but after watching this topic for some time, I am confused.

You are asking for advice on how to handle this player but you don't seem to want to use it, even though the advice is always the same: Kill the character or ditch your player and neither seems to happen - the reason given is that he's your friend and I dig that, but he seems to be doing it at the expense and goodwill of others and you are letting him quite literally get away with murder. You have to ask yourself - would you let other players do it? What would you do if ALL your players started doing it?

And it seems to me that is the issue - not a narrative one.

Please understand that I do not - and I seriously do not - mean any offence (and these observations are merely opinion) as I do not know you or the dynamics of your group, but from what you have described, all I can say at this point is that if I were one of your players I'd be thinking that this RP campaign is a one man show and what I do really has no bearing because it can be torpedoed immediately by a character and a player who basically has an immunity to the rules under which I agree to abide and honestly, I personally would leave.

There is nothing wrong with letting your friend have fun and get in on the action and a bit of madness in the Grimdark is always good but you're going to have to decide between being fair to the group or supporting your buddy.

A GM's life is never easy eh?

What's the progenitor Chapter/Legion for this guy? Use them as a counterweight to say, "you're disgracing us all".

Alternatively ... if this Librarian truly is representative of his Chapter ... it's quite likely, no, make that certain that they will/have done something to get declared Anathema, and either banished from the Imperium or labeled Excommunicate Traitoris and purged . Since he is in the Deathwatch, and wasn't directly involved with whatever the rest of his Chapter did, he has the opportunity to avoid getting summarily executed like the rest of his brethren ... if he gets his act together and keeps it that way.

Alternatively, the next time he calls for fire support, there's a "targeting identification error" and a "friendly fire incident".

Not going to answer every post this time but thanks guys!

Its of great worth to get confirmation from other sources that he's behaving like a jerk and I can offer third party views of this fact to him. I've formulate a plan to deal with him know and if that fails, it remains to see if I will continue as a GM in a group that includes him. I shall hopefully return with the tale of how this came about.

Gotta wonder what this guy, who is currently blatantly ruing your game experience by the sound of it, did for you in rl to warrant such loyalty from you.

Well, we told you everything sensible you could do. Speaking to him and saying he has tog et his act together is the only thing you can do by disregarding anything else.

Also a duel of honor is NO option.

You can only participate in such a Duel if you have some Honor to begin with yet that Librarian crossed the line to open Heresy. There is no way around this. Every, and I mean every - without exception - loyal servant of the Emperor would put him down. Permanently.

If you want to roleplay WH40k there is no way around of erasing that Character from your campaign. If you allow him to get through with this you just play some rebellious gary stue teenager fanfiction that has some dudes in power armor.

He is actively trying to destroy the entire Roleplay and enjoys to be an OUT OF CHARACTER destructive force. He does not play a character that is falling, he just plays a little brat that would have never become an Astartes in the first place.

Even the Space Wolves know when to keep some respect and they are a first founding chapter giving them some sort of tolerance.
If the chapter of your player acts like that they will get visited by the Minotaur and wiped out.

You cant, in any way, justify this behavior. You cant allow it. He crossed the line long ago and as of now he is an open traitor. Openly insulting a loyal Primarch? That is Category A+ Heresy.

I've got a plan to try on him. If that won't work I'll just resign any and all interest in this game and probably won't play as much with the group in general. I don't have much hope for finding another group but there are other things to do, like video games, reading etc.

EDITED: But I really appreciate your posts. It kind of reaffirms my conviction that he's a loose cannon. Once before I determined to stop GMing with this guy but somehow I was drawn in again. I think it may have been a mistake to change my earlier decision.

This is such a strange turn of events to me, I can't honestly grasp my head around it. So this guy is a ****, we can all agree on that. Yet you are also telling us that this guy, who shows so little respect for you that he would rather see you resign as GM than change his attitude, did something so important for you in the past that you are unable to even speak out against him?

I'm sorry, but this makes no sense to me.

Why not? I knew some mates in various gaming groups who were amazing (or at least normal) people when not gaming, but during gaming, they transformed to disruptive pieces of crap, because they thought playing their edgelord characters to the hilt is what "true roleplay" is. I think we're all familiar with the lines: "But I'm only doing what my character would do! How can you call that disruptive and bad roleplaying?" And also remember that if the player in question is embedded in the circle of friends and is a good company otherwise, it can be awfully hard to cut him/her from the gaming group, because it can have powerful ripple effects elsewhere. Resigning as a GM is keeping the friend with minimal collateral damage.

Also, are we really having a That Guy thread right now? I thought that's well within /tg/ territory

I've got a plan to try on him. If that won't work I'll just resign any and all interest in this game and probably won't play as much with the group in general. I don't have much hope for finding another group but there are other things to do, like video games, reading etc.

EDITED: But I really appreciate your posts. It kind of reaffirms my conviction that he's a loose cannon. Once before I determined to stop GMing with this guy but somehow I was drawn in again. I think it may have been a mistake to change my earlier decision.

It's grim when the actions of one person can wreck a game for everyone else. I'll continue to be confused as to why you can't have an upfront talk about the damage his character's actions are having on the campaign, everyone else's enjoyment, and your willingness to GM. It's not a barrel of laughs but it has to be better than burning out on GMing.

As for his chapter, they also seem intent on suicide-by-proxy given that description. Even the Space Wolves and Dark Angels have lines they won't cross, at least not with living witnesses. And their attitude is a lot less combative.

EDITED: I really got worked up but that won't solve anything and least of all this situation. Therefor I have deleted this content, mostly. I do regret this whole discussion as I let my tempers go off. I'm gonna try my plan, which is based on lots of verbal communication with him, and see where that goes. I don't at all feel as worked up as I was before.

Also note the rest of the group are probably fairly cool with him.