3x Omega squadron pilot w/ juke + comm relay

Carnor Jax w/ VI + AT + shield upgrade

Antigrapist (Alex) loves this list.

By examining only average or mean die rolling, the analysis fails to see the real potential for Juke. The main advantage Juke has over Predator is that it can "stack" with a good roll.

Average rolls are interesting, but hits against ships revolve around offensive outliers. For example, that time you rolled 3 hits and poor Soontir rolled only one evade. In the case of Predator you receive zero benefit on your best rolls, because it can only affect "bad" dice. Predator is at its most powerful on poor rolls, rolls where you achieve less than 3 hits. Against PS 2, it only gets its "extra" goodness if you rolled 2 blanks (assuming focus). The odds of you rolling 3 hits with a focus are quite high, (approximately 42%), which is significantly higher than your odds of rolling 2 blanks (approximately 14%). That means if you have a focus, Predator is useless to you approximately 42% of the time, which is enormous, and of the other times only improves your offense if it can take your hits past the threshold established by your opponent's evade dice. Against a 3 Agility ship at Range 3, you generally only get hits when you roll all 3 hits, so having Predator take your 0 or 1 hit roll into a 1 or 2 hit roll often will not net you any additional damage and there are no style points for "near misses" vs. "complete misses".

Juke is at its best when you have "good" dice, for example when you roll 3 hits, because it can make an already powerful outlier even MORE powerful by reducing evades, and every extra hit at this point directly causes damage. It does less for you on "bad" rolls than Predator, but those rolls are less likely to cause damage regardless. If you were to roll 3 hits (remember, that is 42% of the time on 3 dice with focus) Juke will increase the damage dealt dramatically or force the expenditure of a Focus, where Predator would have done nothing at all.

The bottom line is that Juke is most effective on good rolls vs. difficult targets, which is where most of us are looking for accuracy (example, trying to punch through 3 Agility), and Predator is most effective on bad rolls vs. easy targets. If you anticipate trouble with PS 2 Y-Wings, or Decimators, then Predator is likely the better choice. Against more difficult targets Juke is generally far more effective.

Would you rather have +1 hit every time you roll 0 hits naturally (Predator), or +1 hit every time you roll 3 hits naturally (Juke)? Juke vs. Predator isn't quite that straightforward, but it's close enough that this is exactly the question you should be asking yourself.

This is a fantastic analysis, I have failed numerous times to properly explain how important outliers to other x wing players.

That said, my compulsive need to play Devils advocate compels me to expound upon one of quiet advantages of predator. Predator can actually be a defensive card. I ran wedge with predator in my list and pulled out a store championship win on saturday. If wedge is shooting at a target and the extra damage won't kill it, I'll save the focus for defense, this is mostly against generics, against harder targets I totally defer to KO on pushing for that outlier.

Its interesting how you mention predator defensively. I've viewed sensor jammer as a potential offensive card for similar reasons.

I don't think Juke will be a Pillar card like PTL or Predator, but it's extremely strong in the right settings and strong enough to shift the meta. It requires a lot of things for it to work which is why it won't be a top pick EPT. Still it will always have a place and is great on some ships.

Here's a full squad I have been toying with on paper. It's 100 points and weak vs PS9+ but otherwise should be pretty insane.

• Vader + Juke + x1 + ATC + Engine
• Omega Leader + Juke + Comms Relay + Hull Upgrade
• Vessery + Juke + x7

I love the idea of Juke on Vader, but I've tried it and I don't like how it works with in conjunction ATC (and I've mentioned this elsewhere, too). At that point, you've got two cards demanding both Vader's actions for full potential of those cards, not including engine, of course.

Like any good pirate, I'm always looking to find the most aggravating Scum list. The outpouring of discussion of juke definitely presents a challenge in this regard.

As they mentioned in the podcast, Palob is great for action denial to get the most out of juke but he is a poor platform to take the EPT on. Likewise the cloaking / SPA combo is fun but hardly practical means to get evade on ships that don't have it naturally. That leaves Scyk and G1-A. Biophysical's idea to combo Scyk with new JM5000 pilot may be interesting. I'll give it some thought. However, the G1-A offers very good options to combo with juke.

Obviously, having the evade for juke is not enough on its own, so action economy is key. Fire Control System is great option to provide offensive modification.

Enemy action denial. As Theorist said, 4-LOM crew offers a cheap means to ensure against enemy focus albeit at a price. The most important aspect is that you don't need to rely on another ship to block or stress-lock the Mist Hunter's target.

Pilot skill is crucial. If you can fire first, you don't have to make tough decision between saving focus and spending it to avoid damage. Zuckuss has PS7 which is fairly low on the ace totem pole. Enter Mux. While cross-ship synergy is not ideal, Mux can definitely toss a wrench in enemy target priority.

Making it count. Zuckuss' ability can make a bad situation worse for your opponent offering one of Scum's trademark 4-5 dice attacks.

Rounding out the list.

*Toolboxy*

G-1A Starfighter: · Zuckuss (28)

Juke (2)

Fire Control System (2)

· 4-LOM (1)

· Mist Hunter (0)

Tractor Beam (1)

YV-666: Trandoshan Slaver (29)

Gunner (5)

· Bossk (2)

Tactician (2)

Inertial Dampeners (1)

HWK-290: · Torkil Mux (19)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

Tactician (2)

-- TOTAL ------- 100/100p. --

This setup gives all aces headaches while having enough hit points, firepower, and area denial to be strong take all comers squad. Doesn't like swarms due to low agility but I can erase ships before they fire quite well.

Thoughts? Perhaps much of this is dwelling on the obvious but I see lots more Imperial ideas being thrown out than Scum.

Tie Bomber - Gamma Sq. Veteran with Tie Shuttle title, Ysanne, Recon spec. and Juke

28 points

Here's a full squad I have been toying with on paper. It's 100 points and weak vs PS9+ but otherwise should be pretty insane.

• Vader + Juke + x1 + ATC + Engine
• Omega Leader + Juke + Comms Relay + Hull Upgrade
• Vessery + Juke + x7

I love the idea of Juke on Vader, but I've tried it and I don't like how it works with in conjunction ATC (and I've mentioned this elsewhere, too). At that point, you've got two cards demanding both Vader's actions for full potential of those cards, not including engine, of course.

I wonder if jammer/juke is a combo on Vader. You lose a lot not going ATC on him tho.

Here's a full squad I have been toying with on paper. It's 100 points and weak vs PS9+ but otherwise should be pretty insane.

• Vader + Juke + x1 + ATC + Engine
• Omega Leader + Juke + Comms Relay + Hull Upgrade
• Vessery + Juke + x7

I love the idea of Juke on Vader, but I've tried it and I don't like how it works with in conjunction ATC (and I've mentioned this elsewhere, too). At that point, you've got two cards demanding both Vader's actions for full potential of those cards, not including engine, of course.

I had 7 extra points to spend, so Hull Upgrade and Engine Upgrade seemed like the obvious choice. You're certainly paying for flexibility with Engine. Vader here ideally wants to target lock + evade when he needs a lock (like round 1), then focus + evade all other rounds. If you talk to Jeremy Howard, he will tell you the exact same thing anyway. He doesn't even run Engine on Vader, and he made Worlds Top 4, further than any other Palp Fel Vader player.

Here's a full squad I have been toying with on paper. It's 100 points and weak vs PS9+ but otherwise should be pretty insane.

• Vader + Juke + x1 + ATC + Engine
• Omega Leader + Juke + Comms Relay + Hull Upgrade
• Vessery + Juke + x7

I love the idea of Juke on Vader, but I've tried it and I don't like how it works with in conjunction ATC (and I've mentioned this elsewhere, too). At that point, you've got two cards demanding both Vader's actions for full potential of those cards, not including engine, of course.

I wonder if jammer/juke is a combo on Vader. You lose a lot not going ATC on him tho.

I think AC is the way to go with Juke. Juke Vader AC is better at taking down lists with a higher number of ships, while ATC Vader (w/ ept to taste but not juke) is ideal against lists with fewer ships. I think AC makes him slightly less offensive but significantly more defensive since he never needs to modify attack dice and can turtle up and save both tokens for defense.

Its interesting how you mention predator defensively. I've viewed sensor jammer as a potential offensive card for similar reasons.

I think it was the philosopher and sage Kobe Bryant who said "you should always keep your defense offensive"

Here's a full squad I have been toying with on paper. It's 100 points and weak vs PS9+ but otherwise should be pretty insane.

• Vader + Juke + x1 + ATC + Engine
• Omega Leader + Juke + Comms Relay + Hull Upgrade
• Vessery + Juke + x7

I love the idea of Juke on Vader, but I've tried it and I don't like how it works with in conjunction ATC (and I've mentioned this elsewhere, too). At that point, you've got two cards demanding both Vader's actions for full potential of those cards, not including engine, of course.

I had 7 extra points to spend, so Hull Upgrade and Engine Upgrade seemed like the obvious choice. You're certainly paying for flexibility with Engine. Vader here ideally wants to target lock + evade when he needs a lock (like round 1), then focus + evade all other rounds. If you talk to Jeremy Howard, he will tell you the exact same thing anyway. He doesn't even run Engine on Vader, and he made Worlds Top 4, further than any other Palp Fel Vader player.

Don't you really want Omega Leader's Hull Upgrade on Vessery (maybe Stealth Device, depending on preference)? Vessery is dangerous to everybody. Omega is dangerous to one ship.

Like any good pirate, I'm always looking to find the most aggravating Scum list. The outpouring of discussion of juke definitely presents a challenge in this regard.

As they mentioned in the podcast, Palob is great for action denial to get the most out of juke but he is a poor platform to take the EPT on. Likewise the cloaking / SPA combo is fun but hardly practical means to get evade on ships that don't have it naturally. That leaves Scyk and G1-A. Biophysical's idea to combo Scyk with new JM5000 pilot may be interesting. I'll give it some thought. However, the G1-A offers very good options to combo with juke.

Obviously, having the evade for juke is not enough on its own, so action economy is key. Fire Control System is great option to provide offensive modification.

Enemy action denial. As Theorist said, 4-LOM crew offers a cheap means to ensure against enemy focus albeit at a price. The most important aspect is that you don't need to rely on another ship to block or stress-lock the Mist Hunter's target.

Pilot skill is crucial. If you can fire first, you don't have to make tough decision between saving focus and spending it to avoid damage. Zuckuss has PS7 which is fairly low on the ace totem pole. Enter Mux. While cross-ship synergy is not ideal, Mux can definitely toss a wrench in enemy target priority.

Making it count. Zuckuss' ability can make a bad situation worse for your opponent offering one of Scum's trademark 4-5 dice attacks.

Rounding out the list.

*Toolboxy*

G-1A Starfighter: · Zuckuss (28)

Juke (2)

Fire Control System (2)

· 4-LOM (1)

· Mist Hunter (0)

Tractor Beam (1)

YV-666: Trandoshan Slaver (29)

Gunner (5)

· Bossk (2)

Tactician (2)

Inertial Dampeners (1)

HWK-290: · Torkil Mux (19)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

Tactician (2)

-- TOTAL ------- 100/100p. --

This setup gives all aces headaches while having enough hit points, firepower, and area denial to be strong take all comers squad. Doesn't like swarms due to low agility but I can erase ships before they fire quite well.

Thoughts? Perhaps much of this is dwelling on the obvious but I see lots more Imperial ideas being thrown out than Scum.

I know it is significantly more expensive but I wonder if FCS, Gunner, Juke on Zuckuss might be a solid option. Four dice (5 at range 1) with Juke to try and strip focus on the first attack (you don't need to) if you want to swing for the fences on the second attack. It sort of plays into KO's outlier idea, both by adding dice and potentially removing evades you shift the distribution of damage quite a lot. Of course the outliers are still fairly low probability, but you're doing quite a bit to increase the chances.

When playing with Juke in Scum, Pablo is almost an auto include (as if he wasn't for Scum already) with Fel, Poe and Comms Boosters (with or without Juke) running rampant.

I like your idea with Mux but can't help wishing it was Roark instead for guarantee first shot with Zuckuss.

My first riff on your theme would be:

Here's a full squad I have been toying with on paper. It's 100 points and weak vs PS9+ but otherwise should be pretty insane.

• Vader + Juke + x1 + ATC + Engine
• Omega Leader + Juke + Comms Relay + Hull Upgrade
• Vessery + Juke + x7

I love the idea of Juke on Vader, but I've tried it and I don't like how it works with in conjunction ATC (and I've mentioned this elsewhere, too). At that point, you've got two cards demanding both Vader's actions for full potential of those cards, not including engine, of course.

I had 7 extra points to spend, so Hull Upgrade and Engine Upgrade seemed like the obvious choice. You're certainly paying for flexibility with Engine. Vader here ideally wants to target lock + evade when he needs a lock (like round 1), then focus + evade all other rounds. If you talk to Jeremy Howard, he will tell you the exact same thing anyway. He doesn't even run Engine on Vader, and he made Worlds Top 4, further than any other Palp Fel Vader player.

Don't you really want Omega Leader's Hull Upgrade on Vessery (maybe Stealth Device, depending on preference)? Vessery is dangerous to everybody. Omega is dangerous to one ship.

You could go either way putting the hull on Vessery or Omega Leader. I have to run the numbers, but I don't think I'm as much a fan of Stealth Device on Defenders, simply because with 6 hull/shields, for most of their life they won't be utilizing it.

Technically the jousting numbers look better by 1 point if you put it on Vessery, but the general idea is to make them all about equally difficult to kill. Vessery already has 6 hull/shields, but Omega Leader only has 4. Without Hull Upgrade on either one, Omega Leader is actually slightly more of a glass cannon than Vessery. (Assuming Omega Leader only takes shots from ships that DON'T have him target locked).

Here's a full squad I have been toying with on paper. It's 100 points and weak vs PS9+ but otherwise should be pretty insane.

• Vader + Juke + x1 + ATC + Engine
• Omega Leader + Juke + Comms Relay + Hull Upgrade
• Vessery + Juke + x7

I love the idea of Juke on Vader, but I've tried it and I don't like how it works with in conjunction ATC (and I've mentioned this elsewhere, too). At that point, you've got two cards demanding both Vader's actions for full potential of those cards, not including engine, of course.

I had 7 extra points to spend, so Hull Upgrade and Engine Upgrade seemed like the obvious choice. You're certainly paying for flexibility with Engine. Vader here ideally wants to target lock + evade when he needs a lock (like round 1), then focus + evade all other rounds. If you talk to Jeremy Howard, he will tell you the exact same thing anyway. He doesn't even run Engine on Vader, and he made Worlds Top 4, further than any other Palp Fel Vader player.

Obviously, Vader wants to ideally take those actions and I'm sure that his advice is sound, but I'd bet that's not how it played out all the time, especially since he was rolling with Lone Wolf and Palpatine, additional methods to modify Vader's dice. That would allow him to take more shots than most Vaders. I think you'll find you have ATC and Juke active less than you'd like, or you'll be losing him more quickly. I've flown him a ton and had success at local tournaments, including before the Raider, and that's been my experience but maybe you'll make it work!

I love the idea of Juke on Vader, but I've tried it and I don't like how it works with in conjunction ATC (and I've mentioned this elsewhere, too). At that point, you've got two cards demanding both Vader's actions for full potential of those cards, not including engine, of course.

Yeah, I felt action starved with Vader, Juke, ATC, EU. Feels odd saying that about Vader, but there it is.

I like the idea of this list (no testing yet, though):

Colonel Vessery (35)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Tractor Beam (1)

XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE/D (0)

Valen Rudor (22)

Juke (2)

Cluster Missiles (4)

Guidance Chips (0)

TIE/v1 (1)

The Inquisitor (25)

Juke (2)

Cluster Missiles (4)

Guidance Chips (0)

TIE/v1 (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Tractor with a TL, followed by 5x 3 red die attacks, one of which with a free TL, two with chimps, and four with juke. Somebody gonna get hurt real bad.

I know it is significantly more expensive but I wonder if FCS, Gunner, Juke on Zuckuss might be a solid option. Four dice (5 at range 1) with Juke to try and strip focus on the first attack (you don't need to) if you want to swing for the fences on the second attack. It sort of plays into KO's outlier idea, both by adding dice and potentially removing evades you shift the distribution of damage quite a lot. Of course the outliers are still fairly low probability, but you're doing quite a bit to increase the chances.

When playing with Juke in Scum, Pablo is almost an auto include (as if he wasn't for Scum already) with Fel, Poe and Comms Boosters (with or without Juke) running rampant.

I like your idea with Mux but can't help wishing it was Roark instead for guarantee first shot with Zuckuss.

I considered and like gunner, but it limits the other ships in list due to expense. It also makes the G1-A too many points for a vulnerable target - evade every turn not withstanding.

Mux is nice because he allows the slaver to focus fire with Zuckuss.

Palob is great too, but relying on him to get the juke to work by denying actions is risky as opposed to Mux being cherry on top.

I know it is significantly more expensive but I wonder if FCS, Gunner, Juke on Zuckuss might be a solid option. Four dice (5 at range 1) with Juke to try and strip focus on the first attack (you don't need to) if you want to swing for the fences on the second attack. It sort of plays into KO's outlier idea, both by adding dice and potentially removing evades you shift the distribution of damage quite a lot. Of course the outliers are still fairly low probability, but you're doing quite a bit to increase the chances.

When playing with Juke in Scum, Pablo is almost an auto include (as if he wasn't for Scum already) with Fel, Poe and Comms Boosters (with or without Juke) running rampant.

I like your idea with Mux but can't help wishing it was Roark instead for guarantee first shot with Zuckuss.

I considered and like gunner, but it limits the other ships in list due to expense. It also makes the G1-A too many points for a vulnerable target - evade every turn not withstanding.

Mux is nice because he allows the slaver to focus fire with Zuckuss.

Palob is great too, but relying on him to get the juke to work by denying actions is risky as opposed to Mux being cherry on top.

Also, the Sensor/Crew combinations are so good. Gunner/FCS Outlaw Tech/AS K4/anything. Actually, the EPT/Sensor/Crew combinations are what truly make for amazing combinations.

My list had two double stress mechanics to hopefully avoid using 4-LOM

I still think the Inquisitor + Juke is going to be loads of fun at 31pts. So much room left to fill out a squad.

It's pricy dicey, but Guri + SPA + cloak + virago + juke + sensor jammer. Should be fun.

Now that would be an interesting title for a StarViper... Tech Upgrade!

EDIT: Bah! Nevermind... without an Evade it would be pointless... Juke is bad enough as it is without easy access to evade. This just forces a support ship.

My worry with 4-Lom is that you will ion yourself every time you use the ability. Yes, you can still take an evade action, but you'll be making yourself an easy target due to predictability. I like the idea of Gunner best, but maybe K4 or Outlaw tech could provide the action economy that Gunner/FCS offers, while saving a few points?

Also, the Sensor/Crew combinations are so good. Gunner/FCS Outlaw Tech/AS K4/anything. Actually, the EPT/Sensor/Crew combinations are what truly make for amazing combinations.

I hadn't really considered the impact of Sensor/Crew combos for Scum. 4-LOM with Stay on Target, Advanced Sensors and Outlaw Tech seems like a fun combo. Shame his pilot skill makes it harder to use Stay on Target super effectively against aces. I suppose there is always intel agent.

Alternatively, one of the other 'heavy fighters' with access to both elite pilot talents and systems slots is the E-wing.

You have limited access to elite pilot talents (although R2-D6 is an option), but then it's not like you can fit many in a squad anyway. I dunno.

The normal E-wing people use is Corran - Juke/Fire Control might work, giving him a boost to both shots and a defensive boost.

Juke/Sensor Jammer might be a nice call on Etahn A'baht - his primary job is to not die whilst the rest of the squad play the "free mangler cannons for everyone" game - Juke plus Sensor Jammer makes him a pretty hard target. Not sure who you'd support him with, though.