I have a problem with the unnecessary, garbage rng that doesn't need to be in this game anymore than it already is (and not on this upgrade, which would be balanced without drawbacks)

See that's the part I was referencing. I think you spend more time on the boards then the table. Which isn't necessarily bad. But I think you are too quick to judge things. Without the drawbacks, the illicit wouldn't be like the other illicits and would honestly need to have the point cost increase to it.

IMO, more RNGness diminishes the skill element of the game. Permanent cloak is too powerful for an illicit? Then make it a single use cloak, not 'as many uses as your luck holds' cloak. Would be better IMO.

If you are worried about RNG in a dice game diminishing skill, you are playing the wrong kinda game.

I'm totes getting one of these tho...

I think it is landing in a better spot than the TAP. The TAP has the same stats as an A-wing with a slower dial. Sure different faction means there should be some applications but there already is an imperial counterpart to the A-wing. The TIE interceptor.

While the rebels and imperials are starting to double back on themselves with new X-wings and TIE Fighters Scum still has plenty of holes in their design space. One major hole will be filled after the Punishing One is out but as of now Scum is still behind the two original factions.

I agree on scum being behind and needing a few more toys.

But the A-Wing is closer in stats to the TAP than the Interceptor, and i don't think you can say it has a slower dial. The dial is pretty much the same, just the Greens are very slightly different.

That being said, i think it's going to be a ship like the E-Wing or T-70, where competitively there is only one pilot. And that will probably be the Inquisitor. Probably for the same reason we see not a lot of Epsilon FO's. They are by no means bad, but if you need a blocker you go with an Academy Tie. And Rudir seems okay, just PS6 and 2 AD vs the Inquisitor's 3 is not enough to cut it.

The Mist Hunter will probably have a difficult time, unless TLT disappears from the meta. I can't see that happening at the moment, maybe the fixed Defenders will be enough to scare them off with their Firepower. Otherwise i would only see the possibility that TLT would get limited for balancing issues... But that's pretty unlikely really (and i don't know if i would even want that)

I have a problem with the unnecessary, garbage rng that doesn't need to be in this game anymore than it already is (and not on this upgrade, which would be balanced without drawbacks)

See that's the part I was referencing. I think you spend more time on the boards then the table. Which isn't necessarily bad. But I think you are too quick to judge things. Without the drawbacks, the illicit wouldn't be like the other illicits and would honestly need to have the point cost increase to it.

IMO, more RNGness diminishes the skill element of the game. Permanent cloak is too powerful for an illicit? Then make it a single use cloak, not 'as many uses as your luck holds' cloak. Would be better IMO.

Also, if you don't want RNG, go play chess!

And for top level players it does not even matter that much apparently. Why else would we always see the same faces in worlds top 16 and how would Paul Heaver be triple World Champion?

I mean if RNG was that important in X-Wing, even his skill would not be enough to do this!

I think it is landing in a better spot than the TAP. The TAP has the same stats as an A-wing with a slower dial. Sure different faction means there should be some applications but there already is an imperial counterpart to the A-wing. The TIE interceptor.

While the rebels and imperials are starting to double back on themselves with new X-wings and TIE Fighters Scum still has plenty of holes in their design space. One major hole will be filled after the Punishing One is out but as of now Scum is still behind the two original factions.

I agree on scum being behind and needing a few more toys.

But the A-Wing is closer in stats to the TAP than the Interceptor, and i don't think you can say it has a slower dial. The dial is pretty much the same, just the Greens are very slightly different.

That being said, i think it's going to be a ship like the E-Wing or T-70, where competitively there is only one pilot. And that will probably be the Inquisitor. Probably for the same reason we see not a lot of Epsilon FO's. They are by no means bad, but if you need a blocker you go with an Academy Tie. And Rudir seems okay, just PS6 and 2 AD vs the Inquisitor's 3 is not enough to cut it.

The Mist Hunter will probably have a difficult time, unless TLT disappears from the meta. I can't see that happening at the moment, maybe the fixed Defenders will be enough to scare them off with their Firepower. Otherwise i would only see the possibility that TLT would get limited for balancing issues... But that's pretty unlikely really (and i don't know if i would even want that)

There is one thing the Myst hunter or the G1-ba(whatever) ship has going for it and that is the evade token. Now will it survive against TLT? The answer is only if it is at range 1. Really what the Myst hunter needs to make it completely safe from TLTs is a second evade token but then it starts getting to C-3PO+Falcon levels of defense. Though the TLT was designed to counter 2 hard defense and crackshot makes evade tokens I can tell you from experience getting only 2 hits/crits on a TLT happens quite a lot (even with Horton behind the guns WTF?!?!!?!?)

I think it is landing in a better spot than the TAP. The TAP has the same stats as an A-wing with a slower dial. Sure different faction means there should be some applications but there already is an imperial counterpart to the A-wing. The TIE interceptor.

While the rebels and imperials are starting to double back on themselves with new X-wings and TIE Fighters Scum still has plenty of holes in their design space. One major hole will be filled after the Punishing One is out but as of now Scum is still behind the two original factions.

I agree on scum being behind and needing a few more toys.

But the A-Wing is closer in stats to the TAP than the Interceptor, and i don't think you can say it has a slower dial. The dial is pretty much the same, just the Greens are very slightly different.

That being said, i think it's going to be a ship like the E-Wing or T-70, where competitively there is only one pilot. And that will probably be the Inquisitor. Probably for the same reason we see not a lot of Epsilon FO's. They are by no means bad, but if you need a blocker you go with an Academy Tie. And Rudir seems okay, just PS6 and 2 AD vs the Inquisitor's 3 is not enough to cut it.

The Mist Hunter will probably have a difficult time, unless TLT disappears from the meta. I can't see that happening at the moment, maybe the fixed Defenders will be enough to scare them off with their Firepower. Otherwise i would only see the possibility that TLT would get limited for balancing issues... But that's pretty unlikely really (and i don't know if i would even want that)

There is one thing the Myst hunter or the G1-ba(whatever) ship has going for it and that is the evade token. Now will it survive against TLT? The answer is only if it is at range 1. Really what the Myst hunter needs to make it completely safe from TLTs is a second evade token but then it starts getting to C-3PO+Falcon levels of defense. Though the TLT was designed to counter 2 hard defense and crackshot makes evade tokens I can tell you from experience getting only 2 hits/crits on a TLT happens quite a lot (even with Horton behind the guns WTF?!?!!?!?)

That was my initial concern about MH. In this way, I'm thinking something like Juke+SensorJammer for Zuckuss: always get an evade as action, and at least you will be able to mitigate 1-2 TLT shots, and if you are very lucky and attack dice are failing, perhaps you can survive 1-2 extra turns. If it is going to be a knife-fighter, it has to be in the range 1 bubble, but if it's a slow fighter it will struggle against slamming k-wing or unhinged y-wing.

Double post

I have a problem with the unnecessary, garbage rng that doesn't need to be in this game anymore than it already is (and not on this upgrade, which would be balanced without drawbacks)

See that's the part I was referencing. I think you spend more time on the boards then the table. Which isn't necessarily bad. But I think you are too quick to judge things. Without the drawbacks, the illicit wouldn't be like the other illicits and would honestly need to have the point cost increase to it.

IMO, more RNGness diminishes the skill element of the game. Permanent cloak is too powerful for an illicit? Then make it a single use cloak, not 'as many uses as your luck holds' cloak. Would be better IMO.

What? Why? The Cloak is totally fine, and unlike the Phantom's cloak it is limited and random! So this will not break the game, although on Guri it might be hilarious to play!

Also, if you don't want RNG, go play chess!

And for top level players it does not even matter that much apparently. Why else would we always see the same faces in worlds top 16 and how would Paul Heaver be triple World Champion?

I mean if RNG was that important in X-Wing, even his skill would not be enough to do this!

I never argued X-wing currently has so much RNG skill no longer matters, merely that with every piece of extra RNG you add, the player skill matters a little less.

Just curious, why do you think a random cloak is better than a single use (or 2 use) one?

Just curious, why do you think a random cloak is better than a single use (or 2 use) one?

I'll answer this. You are basically paying for a one time use cloak, anything else is gravy. Much like stealth device, you are expecting it to only help you that one time, but know it will fail eventually. Personally? I prefer HU over stealth every time. Cloak though? Even if its just once to get guri into position is worth it. Anything else after just makes the points spent that much sweeter.

Just because we don't see it yet doesn't mean there can't be a good reason behind a random cloak.

They did a great job in the past. Let's trust them on their judgement.

Just curious, why do you think a random cloak is better than a single use (or 2 use) one?

I'll answer this. You are basically paying for a one time use cloak, anything else is gravy. Much like stealth device, you are expecting it to only help you that one time, but know it will fail eventually. Personally? I prefer HU over stealth every time. Cloak though? Even if its just once to get guri into position is worth it. Anything else after just makes the points spent that much sweeter.

I'm going to have to agree with Fickle on this one. The rng on cloak is bull.

I tested it out a bunch today on Xizor. It completely changes the way that you can use your ship. Until it goes away. Which frankly is a problem. It's already a unique upgrade that could have really helped out scum aces like Talonbane and Xizor.

If it was a one-point one use, I could see the point. If it was a 3-point always use, I could also see that. Glitterstim is pretty much better in every way at 2 points. The rng makes it impossible to try and put into a serious list. You cannot practice with it, because it may or may not die after first use. There's no other upgrade in the game that is this unreliable (outside of that one godawful droid). It's stupid design, and there's no reason for it to have been this way. I'm sure as hell not going to take it to a tournament, I'm going to take something that I know exactly how it will perform.

Just because we don't see it yet doesn't mean there can't be a good reason behind a random cloak.

They did a great job in the past. Let's trust them on their judgement.

FFG largely does a great job, but they do produce a fair amount of 'duds', by intent or not.

Not saying cloak is a dud (might be good actually), just unhappy about the random element.

I think it is landing in a better spot than the TAP. The TAP has the same stats as an A-wing with a slower dial. Sure different faction means there should be some applications but there already is an imperial counterpart to the A-wing. The TIE interceptor.

While the rebels and imperials are starting to double back on themselves with new X-wings and TIE Fighters Scum still has plenty of holes in their design space. One major hole will be filled after the Punishing One is out but as of now Scum is still behind the two original factions.

I agree on scum being behind and needing a few more toys.

But the A-Wing is closer in stats to the TAP than the Interceptor, and i don't think you can say it has a slower dial. The dial is pretty much the same, just the Greens are very slightly different.

That being said, i think it's going to be a ship like the E-Wing or T-70, where competitively there is only one pilot. And that will probably be the Inquisitor. Probably for the same reason we see not a lot of Epsilon FO's. They are by no means bad, but if you need a blocker you go with an Academy Tie. And Rudir seems okay, just PS6 and 2 AD vs the Inquisitor's 3 is not enough to cut it.

The Mist Hunter will probably have a difficult time, unless TLT disappears from the meta. I can't see that happening at the moment, maybe the fixed Defenders will be enough to scare them off with their Firepower. Otherwise i would only see the possibility that TLT would get limited for balancing issues... But that's pretty unlikely really (and i don't know if i would even want that)

There is one thing the Myst hunter or the G1-ba(whatever) ship has going for it and that is the evade token. Now will it survive against TLT? The answer is only if it is at range 1. Really what the Myst hunter needs to make it completely safe from TLTs is a second evade token but then it starts getting to C-3PO+Falcon levels of defense. Though the TLT was designed to counter 2 hard defense and crackshot makes evade tokens I can tell you from experience getting only 2 hits/crits on a TLT happens quite a lot (even with Horton behind the guns WTF?!?!!?!?)

Practice tells us that Falcon is protected against TLTs only using Boost.

the tokens aren't that effective when you're a 1-evade trunk.

It takes 2-3 to actually have decent chances.

I tested it out a bunch today on Xizor. It completely changes the way that you can use your ship. Until it goes away. Which frankly is a problem. It's already a unique upgrade that could have really helped out scum aces like Talonbane and Xizor.

If it was a one-point one use, I could see the point. If it was a 3-point always use, I could also see that. Glitterstim is pretty much better in every way at 2 points...

Wait a minute - let me get this straight.

You're saying that you think being able to completely change the way you use your ship is only worth 3 points? One point less than, say, an Engine Upgrade?

You think that Glitterstim - a 2 point, one use illicit upgrade that stresses you - is totally worth it, but a 2 point, maybe one use, maybe more illicit upgrade which completely changes the way you use your ship and doesn't stress you - somehow isn't?

OK.

I have a problem with the unnecessary, garbage rng that doesn't need to be in this game anymore than it already is (and not on this upgrade, which would be balanced without drawbacks)

See that's the part I was referencing. I think you spend more time on the boards then the table. Which isn't necessarily bad. But I think you are too quick to judge things. Without the drawbacks, the illicit wouldn't be like the other illicits and would honestly need to have the point cost increase to it.

IMO, more RNGness diminishes the skill element of the game. Permanent cloak is too powerful for an illicit? Then make it a single use cloak, not 'as many uses as your luck holds' cloak. Would be better IMO.

What? Why? The Cloak is totally fine, and unlike the Phantom's cloak it is limited and random! So this will not break the game, although on Guri it might be hilarious to play!

Also, if you don't want RNG, go play chess!

And for top level players it does not even matter that much apparently. Why else would we always see the same faces in worlds top 16 and how would Paul Heaver be triple World Champion?

I mean if RNG was that important in X-Wing, even his skill would not be enough to do this!

Have you actually looked at Paul Heaver's list this year? He seems to be doing his best to mitigate the RNG (HP and Authothrusters rather than naked greens,Poe's ability, TLT, the stresshog that stresses regardless whether it hits).

I never argued X-wing currently has so much RNG skill no longer matters, merely that with every piece of extra RNG you add, the player skill matters a little less.

Just curious, why do you think a random cloak is better than a single use (or 2 use) one?

So i will remind you the list whith which Paul won in 2014. Which had R2D2 Crew on a Falcon!

The last time i checked, with R2D2 Crew, you risked flipping up crits at a 3/8 chance on your ship.

Also while i know the list he took this year very well, the fact behind a triple world champion is that he somehow managed to trump luck with skill every time. For me that means that you can lose games to abd RNG, yes, but the better you play the less this will happen.

Also RNG makes the game fun. I am a pretty decent player, and i have won a decent number of tournaments in the region. But it will still happen that i lose to bad dice rolling. Yes even when playing with tons of HP, maximized actions etc. you will lose games to that. I will give you an example. I have a 4 HP Poe with Focus at R1 of a freshly stressed K-Turned Y-Wing on 1 HP. I shoot first, doing 4 blanks. He retaliates, 1 hit, 2 crits. I blank on the greens again and take a direct hit... In the final game of a tournament. Now what will you do against that?

At first it is something where you could rage for hours about RNG and odds and whatnot, but then you realize, that it's a game, and without the randomness there is no salt in it. I don't enjoy games like chess where it's pure skill deciding. So after such a game, that's what i need to tell myself.

RNG is not garbage! It is what brings a lot of fun to any dice or card game!

And the cloaking device is pretty great for the measly 2 points it costs. You don't risk a lot with it really. The chances are 2/8 that you need to throw it away, and by that you don't risk a lot! Decloaking move or just staying where you are in the end phase. So you are guaranteed to get your movement once at least (Just saying, Inertial Dampeners cost one point less and you have to always toss them away after use for one special movement option, and they don't add defense or are reusable under circumstances). The only disadvantage that has is that you need to decloak before next turns maneuvers are made. But you can react to that as well as your opponent. and if i get it right, if you don't mess up your roll, you can cloak again, which is pretty nice as long as it lasts.

This thing on Guri will be **** great if you ask me. He will go up to 5 greens and if you ptl still have an action. If he is R1 and has no shot anyway you get a focus on top of that. This is Soontir levels of defense. People take Stealth devices on Interceptors all the time, but the Cloak which has a decent chance of surviving the game, and adds even more nice effects is a bad pick?

Oh, and you can even combine it to a stealth device, or (if you are willing to take the risk of another wasted 2 points), a Stygium Particle Accelerator!

Tis or similar builds are just a pain in the backside to kill. And a BIG one!

Guri (30)

Push the Limit (3)

Sensor Jammer (4)

Cloaking Device (2)

Autothrusters (2)

Virago (1)

Total: 42

Mark my words, this thing will see play. It's pretty powerful, and that's why it is limited too!

I have a problem with the unnecessary, garbage rng that doesn't need to be in this game anymore than it already is (and not on this upgrade, which would be balanced without drawbacks)

See that's the part I was referencing. I think you spend more time on the boards then the table. Which isn't necessarily bad. But I think you are too quick to judge things. Without the drawbacks, the illicit wouldn't be like the other illicits and would honestly need to have the point cost increase to it.

IMO, more RNGness diminishes the skill element of the game. Permanent cloak is too powerful for an illicit? Then make it a single use cloak, not 'as many uses as your luck holds' cloak. Would be better IMO.

What? Why? The Cloak is totally fine, and unlike the Phantom's cloak it is limited and random! So this will not break the game, although on Guri it might be hilarious to play!

Also, if you don't want RNG, go play chess!

And for top level players it does not even matter that much apparently. Why else would we always see the same faces in worlds top 16 and how would Paul Heaver be triple World Champion?

I mean if RNG was that important in X-Wing, even his skill would not be enough to do this!

Have you actually looked at Paul Heaver's list this year? He seems to be doing his best to mitigate the RNG (HP and Authothrusters rather than naked greens,Poe's ability, TLT, the stresshog that stresses regardless whether it hits).

I never argued X-wing currently has so much RNG skill no longer matters, merely that with every piece of extra RNG you add, the player skill matters a little less.

Just curious, why do you think a random cloak is better than a single use (or 2 use) one?

So i will remind you the list whith which Paul won in 2014. Which had R2D2 Crew on a Falcon!

The last time i checked, with R2D2 Crew, you risked flipping up crits at a 3/8 chance on your ship.

Also while i know the list he took this year very well, the fact behind a triple world champion is that he somehow managed to trump luck with skill every time. For me that means that you can lose games to abd RNG, yes, but the better you play the less this will happen.

Also RNG makes the game fun. I am a pretty decent player, and i have won a decent number of tournaments in the region. But it will still happen that i lose to bad dice rolling. Yes even when playing with tons of HP, maximized actions etc. you will lose games to that. I will give you an example. I have a 4 HP Poe with Focus at R1 of a freshly stressed K-Turned Y-Wing on 1 HP. I shoot first, doing 4 blanks. He retaliates, 1 hit, 2 crits. I blank on the greens again and take a direct hit... In the final game of a tournament. Now what will you do against that?

At first it is something where you could rage for hours about RNG and odds and whatnot, but then you realize, that it's a game, and without the randomness there is no salt in it. I don't enjoy games like chess where it's pure skill deciding. So after such a game, that's what i need to tell myself.

RNG is not garbage! It is what brings a lot of fun to any dice or card game!

And the cloaking device is pretty great for the measly 2 points it costs. You don't risk a lot with it really. The chances are 2/8 that you need to throw it away, and by that you don't risk a lot! Decloaking move or just staying where you are in the end phase. So you are guaranteed to get your movement once at least (Just saying, Inertial Dampeners cost one point less and you have to always toss them away after use for one special movement option, and they don't add defense or are reusable under circumstances). The only disadvantage that has is that you need to decloak before next turns maneuvers are made. But you can react to that as well as your opponent. and if i get it right, if you don't mess up your roll, you can cloak again, which is pretty nice as long as it lasts.

This thing on Guri will be **** great if you ask me. He will go up to 5 greens and if you ptl still have an action. If he is R1 and has no shot anyway you get a focus on top of that. This is Soontir levels of defense. People take Stealth devices on Interceptors all the time, but the Cloak which has a decent chance of surviving the game, and adds even more nice effects is a bad pick?

Oh, and you can even combine it to a stealth device, or (if you are willing to take the risk of another wasted 2 points), a Stygium Particle Accelerator!

Tis or similar builds are just a pain in the backside to kill. And a BIG one!

Guri (30)

Push the Limit (3)

Sensor Jammer (4)

Cloaking Device (2)

Autothrusters (2)

Virago (1)

Total: 42

Mark my words, this thing will see play. It's pretty powerful, and that's why it is limited too!

Guri IS a beast right now, even without cloaking device. I've paired her (crak+SensorJammer+AT) with Latts (Gunner+Bossk+Tactician) and cartel marauder or autoblaster y-wing... TONS OF FUN!! Everybody R1, Latts and Guri TL, then Guri gets free focus and attacks first, Latts spends TL to lower defense on Guris' defender. Then Latts follows, if she fails, Bossk+Gunner triggers (and if R2, tactician for double stress). Fry the remnants with autoblaster turret.

First of all, hello all from Spain, after a couple of months reading this forum I want to participate actively in this healthy and growing community.

That is the question: with the current meta, it seems to be two strong facts: TLTs, and its counter, autothrusters. Let me explain briefly: ships with little defense and TLT, or ships with high defensive capabilities (AT, PTL) or regeneration (regenPoe, Miranda) are in vogue right now (and then we have stressbot, and other particulars, but I'm not talking about that here). With that, there are a few ships in a hard spot: z95 (very useful blockers, but not the named ones), and B-wings, suddenly dissapeared with TLT spam.

This makes me worry about the arrival of Mist Hunter: the dial and stats seem to be similar to B-wing, and Scum doesn't have defensive solutions for this ship. Ilicit cloaking device only adds 2 dice for defense (and it's not a phantom), you won't be able to attack and, eventually, it will break easily... Do you think that this ship is going to land in nowhere land? After the first hype-games, will it be competitive or will it be forgotten in the shelves until the next plot twist?

Please, please enlighten me! And sorry for poor wording-spelling-grammar...

4BZ didn't disappear with TLT spam. 4BZ eat TLT spam for breakfast.

Also, if the PS3 generic cost 22 points and the dial is good, you will see 4GZ builds because even if you lose the Barrel Roll, you gain Evade which just make the ship even more sturdy than a B-Wing and you are out of Predator range and also you shoot before 4BZ.

So my fingers are crossed really really hard in hope that the PS3 generic cost 22 points

[/b] Mark my words, this thing will see play. It's pretty powerful, and that's why it is limited too!

It probably will, but most people playing it competitively will probably rely on it as a 'one use' device, with the chance to use it agaon being just a bonus, nice when it happens, but not something to build around.

I'm liking the Cloak on the Mist Hunter a lot, the more I think about it. The Mist Hunter title grants a Barrel Roll. Myself and others have already suggested an Advanced Sensors/PTL/K4 Security Droid build as long as there is a modest amount of greens, and for 4-LOM, you don't even need that. On the opening engagement, you can Cloak, giving up your Range 3 shots, but getting vastly more survivability against stuff like TLTs. If you decide to take Stygium (questionable, maybe, but it's an option), you get an Evade, and can PTL to get a Focus. That's much more long-range defense than B-wings are capable of. After the first exchange, maybe your Cloaking Device breaks. You can decloak and adjust your move getting closer to your target, and making sure that next turn you slot in at Range 1. You're in great shape, because with Advanced Sensors, PTL, and a Barrel Roll, you are a close-range nightmare. You don't care about blocking, or can simply avoid it, and you're throwing 4 dice (maybe five with Zuckuss) with lots of modifications. You can Barrel Roll and/or intentionally bump to avoid arcs. If you're flying 4-LOM, you hand out a stress, too. This doesn't even require a good dial. A HWK-290 dial would be sufficient to make this Mist Hunter build really nasty up close. The main point is that even if it breaks the first time, the Cloaking Device has allowed this ship to mitigate one of the big the problems of almost all the elite B-wings: Focus fire at long range.

Let's say you get average luck, and your Cloak still works, you decloak, and can keep the cloak in your back pocket for a round when you might be out of position and need the extra defense.

High End Zuckuss Build:

Zuckuss 28

PTL 3

Advanced Sensors 3

Mist Hunter + Tractor Beam 1

K4 security droid 3

Cloaking Device 2

Total: 40

Admittedly, this is a big chunk, but this is a tough ship, able to generate defensive tokens and get out of the way of a lot of arcs. I could see it fitting in in a 2-ship build, where the other ship is a totally loaded out Boba or Kath or IG88B (Bombs!). I could also see it operating along with a larger 3-5 ship squad. The ship hits really hard. If you flank with it, and the enemy squad goes after it early, you pop the cloak and token up and get the rest of your squad in position. If they ignore it, you start hurling 5 or 4 red dice with Focus/TL, and this pushes the target to save a token for defense to try and get the most out of their extra green, so whoever their target is has a little more defense.

I tested it out a bunch today on Xizor. It completely changes the way that you can use your ship. Until it goes away. Which frankly is a problem. It's already a unique upgrade that could have really helped out scum aces like Talonbane and Xizor.

If it was a one-point one use, I could see the point. If it was a 3-point always use, I could also see that. Glitterstim is pretty much better in every way at 2 points...

Wait a minute - let me get this straight.

You're saying that you think being able to completely change the way you use your ship is only worth 3 points? One point less than, say, an Engine Upgrade?

You think that Glitterstim - a 2 point, one use illicit upgrade that stresses you - is totally worth it, but a 2 point, maybe one use, maybe more illicit upgrade which completely changes the way you use your ship and doesn't stress you - somehow isn't?

OK.

Last I checked engine upgrade still allows you to attack. It also isn't unique. It is also a modification, which means by definition it is overcosted. Yes I do think 3 points is reasonable for a non-rng card.

Glitterstim is by far one of the most efficient upgrades in the game. You can use it anytime you wish, and it can be worth many other upgrades. It also isn't random, you know exactly what it is going to do for you when you put it in your list.

The "maybe more" is the part that frustrates me. You don't lose R2-D2 when he makes you flip up a card. He just does something suboptimal. A better way to have done cloak would be to have the die roll decide whether you had to decloak during this end phase or normally. Not entirely lose the upgrade outright. It could still screw you over if you wanted to remain cloaked that turn, and would broadcast your intentions otherwise. Given the mindgames with cloaking, that would certainly be a downside.

[/b] Mark my words, this thing will see play. It's pretty powerful, and that's why it is limited too!

It probably will, but most people playing it competitively will probably rely on it as a 'one use' device, with the chance to use it agaon being just a bonus, nice when it happens, but not something to build around.

Yes, but even then it's a totally fair price tag at 2 points, so it's really a win/win more situation

I have a problem with the unnecessary, garbage rng that doesn't need to be in this game anymore than it already is (and not on this upgrade, which would be balanced without drawbacks)

See that's the part I was referencing. I think you spend more time on the boards then the table. Which isn't necessarily bad. But I think you are too quick to judge things. Without the drawbacks, the illicit wouldn't be like the other illicits and would honestly need to have the point cost increase to it.

IMO, more RNGness diminishes the skill element of the game. Permanent cloak is too powerful for an illicit? Then make it a single use cloak, not 'as many uses as your luck holds' cloak. Would be better IMO.

What? Why? The Cloak is totally fine, and unlike the Phantom's cloak it is limited and random! So this will not break the game, although on Guri it might be hilarious to play!

Also, if you don't want RNG, go play chess!

And for top level players it does not even matter that much apparently. Why else would we always see the same faces in worlds top 16 and how would Paul Heaver be triple World Champion?

I mean if RNG was that important in X-Wing, even his skill would not be enough to do this!

Have you actually looked at Paul Heaver's list this year? He seems to be doing his best to mitigate the RNG (HP and Authothrusters rather than naked greens,Poe's ability, TLT, the stresshog that stresses regardless whether it hits).

I never argued X-wing currently has so much RNG skill no longer matters, merely that with every piece of extra RNG you add, the player skill matters a little less.

Just curious, why do you think a random cloak is better than a single use (or 2 use) one?

So i will remind you the list whith which Paul won in 2014. Which had R2D2 Crew on a Falcon!

The last time i checked, with R2D2 Crew, you risked flipping up crits at a 3/8 chance on your ship.

Also while i know the list he took this year very well, the fact behind a triple world champion is that he somehow managed to trump luck with skill every time. For me that means that you can lose games to abd RNG, yes, but the better you play the less this will happen.

Also RNG makes the game fun. I am a pretty decent player, and i have won a decent number of tournaments in the region. But it will still happen that i lose to bad dice rolling. Yes even when playing with tons of HP, maximized actions etc. you will lose games to that. I will give you an example. I have a 4 HP Poe with Focus at R1 of a freshly stressed K-Turned Y-Wing on 1 HP. I shoot first, doing 4 blanks. He retaliates, 1 hit, 2 crits. I blank on the greens again and take a direct hit... In the final game of a tournament. Now what will you do against that?

At first it is something where you could rage for hours about RNG and odds and whatnot, but then you realize, that it's a game, and without the randomness there is no salt in it. I don't enjoy games like chess where it's pure skill deciding. So after such a game, that's what i need to tell myself.

RNG is not garbage! It is what brings a lot of fun to any dice or card game!

And the cloaking device is pretty great for the measly 2 points it costs. You don't risk a lot with it really. The chances are 2/8 that you need to throw it away, and by that you don't risk a lot! Decloaking move or just staying where you are in the end phase. So you are guaranteed to get your movement once at least (Just saying, Inertial Dampeners cost one point less and you have to always toss them away after use for one special movement option, and they don't add defense or are reusable under circumstances). The only disadvantage that has is that you need to decloak before next turns maneuvers are made. But you can react to that as well as your opponent. and if i get it right, if you don't mess up your roll, you can cloak again, which is pretty nice as long as it lasts.

This thing on Guri will be **** great if you ask me. He will go up to 5 greens and if you ptl still have an action. If he is R1 and has no shot anyway you get a focus on top of that. This is Soontir levels of defense. People take Stealth devices on Interceptors all the time, but the Cloak which has a decent chance of surviving the game, and adds even more nice effects is a bad pick?

Oh, and you can even combine it to a stealth device, or (if you are willing to take the risk of another wasted 2 points), a Stygium Particle Accelerator!

Tis or similar builds are just a pain in the backside to kill. And a BIG one!

Guri (30)Push the Limit (3)Sensor Jammer (4)Cloaking Device (2)Autothrusters (2)Virago (1)Total: 42

Mark my words, this thing will see play. It's pretty powerful, and that's why it is limited too!

Guri IS a beast right now, even without cloaking device. I've paired her (crak+SensorJammer+AT) with Latts (Gunner+Bossk+Tactician) and cartel marauder or autoblaster y-wing... TONS OF FUN!! Everybody R1, Latts and Guri TL, then Guri gets free focus and attacks first, Latts spends TL to lower defense on Guris' defender. Then Latts follows, if she fails, Bossk+Gunner triggers (and if R2, tactician for double stress). Fry the remnants with autoblaster turret.

Guri plus 2 TLT Y-Wings plus Z-95 is a pretty nasty list. Very difficult to handle because of the reliable TLT damage plus the hard to kill Guri!

You know, I see all this discussion on ships and them being relevant and I keep seeing lists that are maxed out with one ship type. People are talking about 4 x TLT's or BBBBZ and basing all relevance on that. Does the Mist Hunter have to be maxed out to be useful? Look at Paul Heaver's list and see that he's got a well balanced list with different ship types. Perhaps the Mist Hunter can be used well in a well balanced list and work out alright?

I try not to look at the best way to use something by maxing out as many of them as I can in a list. I know there is the idea that you can really become powerful if you maximize an advantage, but it then leaves you weak to the counter. What about a list that has various tools to beat numerous lists?

[/b] Mark my words, this thing will see play. It's pretty powerful, and that's why it is limited too!

It probably will, but most people playing it competitively will probably rely on it as a 'one use' device, with the chance to use it agaon being just a bonus, nice when it happens, but not something to build around.

Yes, but even then it's a totally fair price tag at 2 points, so it's really a win/win more situation

imo, it's overpriced at 2 with the rng stripulation

it's balanced at 2 with just cloak, as cloak is an incredibly situational action without Advanced Cloaking Device

it's also just the fact that rng is about the worst way to introduce a drawback, as it has absolutely nothing to do with player choice. It's just pure random luck.

RNG is necessary in this game, as it adds variance to dice exchanges, but in this instance it is completely excessive and simply lazy. The failure condition of the cloaking device could have been literally any number of things that would be more appropriate for "a miniature game of tactical space combat"

flubbing on damage taken (dice related, but mitigated through positioning)

flubbing on overlap with obstacle/enemy (completely positioning related)

hell, self harm on rng failure wouldve been fine, as at least you can mitigate the impact of said damage through positioning

this is just dice, and that makes it impossible to play with reliably to any extent. This is upsetting because it's wasted design space that could've been used to add variety to pilots such as Cobra, who could've been an awesome unique ace with cloaking + stygium in addition to being an incredible crackgun

that said, the Mist Hunter is probably the only platform that doesn't care too much about losing the device. The bump in agility is incredibly underwhelming, and the ship is chuncky enough to not need it (as opposed to something like an expensive K-fighter, ala Cobra). Most importantly, that slingshot maneuverability is most likely something it will sorely lack otherwise

it's still dumb, poor game design in its current implementation, but let's just say there's probably a reason it came packaged with and features the Mist Hunter on its art