First of all, hello all from Spain, after a couple of months reading this forum I want to participate actively in this healthy and growing community.

That is the question: with the current meta, it seems to be two strong facts: TLTs, and its counter, autothrusters. Let me explain briefly: ships with little defense and TLT, or ships with high defensive capabilities (AT, PTL) or regeneration (regenPoe, Miranda) are in vogue right now (and then we have stressbot, and other particulars, but I'm not talking about that here). With that, there are a few ships in a hard spot: z95 (very useful blockers, but not the named ones), and B-wings, suddenly dissapeared with TLT spam.

This makes me worry about the arrival of Mist Hunter: the dial and stats seem to be similar to B-wing, and Scum doesn't have defensive solutions for this ship. Ilicit cloaking device only adds 2 dice for defense (and it's not a phantom), you won't be able to attack and, eventually, it will break easily... Do you think that this ship is going to land in nowhere land? After the first hype-games, will it be competitive or will it be forgotten in the shelves until the next plot twist?

Please, please enlighten me! And sorry for poor wording-spelling-grammar...

I'm not so sure I am with you on that. B-wings with Sensor Jammer can make TLTs have a bad day. That being said I think the Mist Hunter will fall into a similar role.

I think TLTs/Autothruster dynamic is going to be a meta thing. You are either making them irrelevant via HP or via AGI. Most of the lists I have seen locally or the one Store Champ posted in the US, seem to bear this out. Z's still have a place, but only in terms of a true swarm. They can counter TLTs very well, since there isn't enough damage to stop them all, and depending on the PS you may lose a Ywing before you even get to shoot your TLT.

Hope it helps. 8)

It's a Juke-capable small ship with a built-in System and Crew slot. For one point, the title ship can also Barrel Roll and gains a Tractor Beam.

We also haven't actually seen the dial on this thing yet, so we really have no idea what it's capable of. I suspect we'll have a better idea on Friday, though I also think FFG will hold back on spoiling the dial. They usually hold back one dial per wave, and the Punishing One's assymetrical dial will probably be a featured part of its article.

It's a Juke-capable small ship with a built-in System and Crew slot. For one point, the title ship can also Barrel Roll and gains a Tractor Beam.

We also haven't actually seen the dial on this thing yet, so we really have no idea what it's capable of. I suspect we'll have a better idea on Friday, though I also think FFG will hold back on spoiling the dial. They usually hold back one dial per wave, and the Punishing One's assymetrical dial will probably be a featured part of its article.

I agree with this. There just isn't enough info yet but what we know looks promising, especially the new crew and thermal detonator!!

I think the scum b-wing will be fine they've hopefully learnt from past mistakes.

I'm not so sure I am with you on that. B-wings with Sensor Jammer can make TLTs have a bad day. That being said I think the Mist Hunter will fall into a similar role.

I think TLTs/Autothruster dynamic is going to be a meta thing. You are either making them irrelevant via HP or via AGI. Most of the lists I have seen locally or the one Store Champ posted in the US, seem to bear this out. Z's still have a place, but only in terms of a true swarm. They can counter TLTs very well, since there isn't enough damage to stop them all, and depending on the PS you may lose a Ywing before you even get to shoot your TLT.

Hope it helps. 8)

I see your point. Anyway, if you try to swarm by numbers or HP, you can't pack BBBBZ with Sensor Jammer, so you'll have to drop one ship or SJ. And for the Z swarm, I didn't see any of these here, nor in Worlds, currently I see one or two Zs as good blockers.

Maybe this leads to another question... how many defense dice are enough to counter TLT? Only one with Sensor jammer is enough (B's and Mist Hunter, and for me, the answer is "no")? Two dice without defensive upgrades? Two dice with AT are better than three without any help? (for the last one, my answer is "yes")

What do you think?

I actually agree with the concern.

B-wings suffer when facing TLTs. It's probably the biggest pity of the TLT era, because B-wings were pretty solid. The Mist Hunter looks like its cheapest generic at PS3 is going to be 1pt more than a Blue pilot (And if not, the dial is going to be even worse; I'm not sure which I'm more worried about), so will lose out on raw guns-per-squad-point efficiency even further.

That said, should the meta shift again, and B-wings start making a comeback... the Mist Hunter will do so too, assuming they're as similar as I suspect them to be.

The generic one might be a good tactician carrier.

I think it is landing in a better spot than the TAP. The TAP has the same stats as an A-wing with a slower dial. Sure different faction means there should be some applications but there already is an imperial counterpart to the A-wing. The TIE interceptor.

While the rebels and imperials are starting to double back on themselves with new X-wings and TIE Fighters Scum still has plenty of holes in their design space. One major hole will be filled after the Punishing One is out but as of now Scum is still behind the two original factions.

Something to remember is that the base pilot is PS3, so there's a native advantage over 4xTLT lists.

Something to remember is that the base pilot is PS3, so there's a native advantage over 4xTLT lists.

Unless they charge you for that extra PS; 22pts isn't bad (It's the same as a B-wing/E2), but it all but limits it to being a 'tech' platform you take so you can put select upgrades on top of (like, say, the B-wing/E2...).

TLT is possibly the single most overrated card on the forums

Let's face it, they're great. They're not, however, the fist of god himself splattering low agi into a pulp. If anything, Bs should run right through opposing ywing TLTs given higher jousting efficiency.

One thing people heavily missattribute to tlts is the true strength of the card: the raw flexibility it gives to the Y.

Unlike the slower B, the TLT Y doesn't have to worry about its arc and, with TLT being a 2-3 double shot weapon, it can actually challenge ATs at range 3.

The B's 3 dice is potent, but without full mods it'll patter off of soontirs and aggressors. Plus, there's the arc to worry about, which is real frusturating to overcome only to fall to **** dice

TLT is powerful because it is flexible, far more so than your average generic. On the forums, however, it gets elevated to a satirical level of power. It is not that difficult to control engagements with opposing Us. Hell, Tie Fighters have no issue especially after the initial brush when doughnut diving becomes key

So where does this leave the hunter. Well, at PS 3 with modifiers available from some very potent upgrade slots, it should have little issue concetrating fire and butchering a Y before it activates

So where does this leave the hunter. Well, at PS 3 with modifiers available from some very potent upgrade slots, it should have little issue concetrating fire and butchering a Y before it activates

I mean, I'm sure it can be done, it's just not as easy as you're implying.

It's pretty easy

Their dials are identical apart from the 3 banks and speed of K (except b has more greens but that doesn't matter much when you're not jousting) and, as you said, they fear a joust

Us aren't fat PWTs. They're slow, predictable and relatively immobile. Concentrating fire on them is very easy compared to anything with a post manuever move

The only B that TLT has invalidated are the pricey, squishy named pilots that don't give you enough firepower to smash through opposing TLTs

Sure, better players play better, but these aren't fat Hans and the forum sometimes treats them as such

TLT boats are not what I fear with B-Wings. What I fear with B-Wings and traditional 'jouster' ships in general are Acewing ships and Fat Turrets because those ships can usually solo down an equal amount points wise of traditional 'jousters'.

Y-Wings with TLT didn't push B-Wings from the meta because they're good against B-Wings (honestly I'd have no clue how that fight would go, haven't seen it), but because they fill the B-Wing's role better. The current meta necessitates that you have some way to deal with hypermobility and the easy mode nature of TLT's provides that while B-Wings actually have to get something in arc.

So these things will be DOA because they're not Acewing bull and they can't carry turrets. Since Scum gets their own Dash and regular dash gets an entirely green dial in the wave these things come in they'll be tried once or twice and then shelved.

These things will move once, do one action (maybe), and attack once (maybe because no turret). They do not have a place in this game's meta anymore. It's a shame.

So an expensive ship that can solo a similar number of points is a problem? Makes sense to me... 50 points should be able to beat, equal, or come very very close to beating another 50 points of another style. As should 100 points vs 100.

I'm with FGD. TLT's are powerful but far from unbeatable. Their weakness is their strength: they attack repeatedly, but fold to repeated attacks. It's easy for 2-3 TLT's to overpower a single ship with lots of HP, because that ship can only attack once. But, if 4 Daggers or G1-As get into Range of 4 TLT's, one of those Y-wings is likely destroyed before it fires. And then, they do not have enough concentrated firepower remaining to clear one of the B-wings/G1-As.

as above

Han died the gruesome death he deserved because he's a fat ass piece of **** with only 3 dice with anti-ace tech (gunner) but no "blimey, that's a lot of hull + shield!" tech

TLTs, which are far less disadvantaged against his boosting bull, swiss cheese him with ease. Good god **** riddance

Bs are not such easy prey

TLT boats are not what I fear with B-Wings. What I fear with B-Wings and traditional 'jouster' ships in general are Acewing ships and Fat Turrets because those ships can usually solo down an equal amount points wise of traditional 'jousters'.

Y-Wings with TLT didn't push B-Wings from the meta because they're good against B-Wings (honestly I'd have no clue how that fight would go, haven't seen it), but because they fill the B-Wing's role better. The current meta necessitates that you have some way to deal with hypermobility and the easy mode nature of TLT's provides that while B-Wings actually have to get something in arc.

So these things will be DOA because they're not Acewing bull and they can't carry turrets. Since Scum gets their own Dash and regular dash gets an entirely green dial in the wave these things come in they'll be tried once or twice and then shelved.

These things will move once, do one action (maybe), and attack once (maybe because no turret). They do not have a place in this game's meta anymore. It's a shame.

well, Ties still have a meta place

lovely lovely crack Ties

got the crack to beat green dice; the PS and the dice to murder Ys

and that's all you need to do to be viable in a TLT environment if you're not a super ace

TLT is possibly the single most overrated card on the forums

Let's face it, they're great. They're not, however, the fist of god himself splattering low agi into a pulp. If anything, Bs should run right through opposing ywing TLTs given higher jousting efficiency.

One thing people heavily missattribute to tlts is the true strength of the card: the raw flexibility it gives to the Y.

Unlike the slower B, the TLT Y doesn't have to worry about its arc and, with TLT being a 2-3 double shot weapon, it can actually challenge ATs at range 3.

The B's 3 dice is potent, but without full mods it'll patter off of soontirs and aggressors. Plus, there's the arc to worry about, which is real frusturating to overcome only to fall to **** dice

TLT is powerful because it is flexible, far more so than your average generic. On the forums, however, it gets elevated to a satirical level of power. It is not that difficult to control engagements with opposing Us. Hell, Tie Fighters have no issue especially after the initial brush when doughnut diving becomes key

So where does this leave the hunter. Well, at PS 3 with modifiers available from some very potent upgrade slots, it should have little issue concetrating fire and butchering a Y before it activates

True, TLT won't win you the game, and as it is mentioned in your name sake, dice fail... a lot!

But as mathwingers that already crunching the probability statistics TLT is better than 3 PWT at ranges 2-3 which is more area than range 1. So in terms of red dice TLT > 3 PWT. Not by much and there are ways to counter TLT just like you can counter Super Dash or Whisper but it is very difficult.

However the Mist Hunter is heading into a tough meta much like the Punishing One. If the Punishing one was released in Wave 7 before the large ship nerf it would be all that more potent. but the mist hunter is entering a meta full of arc-dodging Soontirs and Corrans which loves to eat up B-wings. Jousting firing arcs don't do that well against backstabbing acr-dodgers.

TIEs do not have a place anymore unless you're flying 8 of them. 7? Nope, not enough.

Crackshot TIEs definitely have a place, it's just that FFG gave them their own version of power creep in the form of Crackshot. With this they actually have a chance against Acewing lists.

TLT's are powerful but far from unbeatable.

Can confirm: got beat today.

So an expensive ship that can solo a similar number of points is a problem? Makes sense to me... 50 points should be able to beat, equal, or come very very close to beating another 50 points of another style. As should 100 points vs 100.

Sorry, didn't word my statements well enough.

It's a problem when you have ~48 points of normal ships like TIEs or whatever that autolose to a 48 point Corran. 60 points of normal ships such as TIE Fighters autolose to a 58 point Dash.

It's not actually all that close most of the time. You have half of your normal ship list left vs half of your opponent's Acewing/Fat Turretwing list and you're losing.

So an expensive ship that can solo a similar number of points is a problem? Makes sense to me... 50 points should be able to beat, equal, or come very very close to beating another 50 points of another style. As should 100 points vs 100.

Sorry, didn't word my statements well enough.

It's a problem when you have ~48 points of normal ships like TIEs or whatever that autolose to a 48 point Corran. 60 points of normal ships such as TIE Fighters autolose to a 58 point Dash.

It's not actually all that close most of the time. You have half of your normal ship list left vs half of your opponent's Acewing/Fat Turretwing list and you're losing.

And you can't block them once with your net of numerical superiority? Really, if you block them up once, you beat them.

TLT is possibly the single most overrated card on the forums

Let's face it, they're great. They're not, however, the fist of god himself splattering low agi into a pulp. If anything, Bs should run right through opposing ywing TLTs given higher jousting efficiency.

One thing people heavily missattribute to tlts is the true strength of the card: the raw flexibility it gives to the Y.

Unlike the slower B, the TLT Y doesn't have to worry about its arc and, with TLT being a 2-3 double shot weapon, it can actually challenge ATs at range 3.

The B's 3 dice is potent, but without full mods it'll patter off of soontirs and aggressors. Plus, there's the arc to worry about, which is real frusturating to overcome only to fall to **** dice

TLT is powerful because it is flexible, far more so than your average generic. On the forums, however, it gets elevated to a satirical level of power. It is not that difficult to control engagements with opposing Us. Hell, Tie Fighters have no issue especially after the initial brush when doughnut diving becomes key

So where does this leave the hunter. Well, at PS 3 with modifiers available from some very potent upgrade slots, it should have little issue concetrating fire and butchering a Y before it activates

True, TLT won't win you the game, and as it is mentioned in your name sake, dice fail... a lot!

But as mathwingers that already crunching the probability statistics TLT is better than 3 PWT at ranges 2-3 which is more area than range 1. So in terms of red dice TLT > 3 PWT. Not by much and there are ways to counter TLT just like you can counter Super Dash or Whisper but it is very difficult.

However the Mist Hunter is heading into a tough meta much like the Punishing One. If the Punishing one was released in Wave 7 before the large ship nerf it would be all that more potent. but the mist hunter is entering a meta full of arc-dodging Soontirs and Corrans which loves to eat up B-wings. Jousting firing arcs don't do that well against backstabbing acr-dodgers.

probably not the intention, but I have to respond to the wording

TLTs and PWTs are very different beasts

TLTs have punch, PWTs have mobility. TLTs do not have mobility, you do not counter them like you would Dash or Whisper. Seriously, the only thing easier to predict than a TLT Y is z-95 or X-wing. Low PS + no respoitioning + "Range 1 no bueno" = easy dial work

you do not counter the two in the same way, although you can outjoust both

and literally everything apart from pre-fix tie advance or defender (or something dumb like turret-less HWK) has a better jousting value than a 3 dice pwt, apart from 2 dice pwts

always remember, you cannot outfly a PWT you can only throw more dice at it and hope to not get unlucky (much easier when it's only 2 dice to the point where the ship must do something else to not suck). You can certainly outfly TLTs

the point v aces is valid, though. Only thing Misty has there is crew slot + k4 for beautiful immediate (unlike FCS) full modifiers which hurt even at long range. Still have four scum crew to go through and see if they'll help misty at all in that department, though

So an expensive ship that can solo a similar number of points is a problem? Makes sense to me... 50 points should be able to beat, equal, or come very very close to beating another 50 points of another style. As should 100 points vs 100.

Sorry, didn't word my statements well enough.

It's a problem when you have ~48 points of normal ships like TIEs or whatever that autolose to a 48 point Corran. 60 points of normal ships such as TIE Fighters autolose to a 58 point Dash.

It's not actually all that close most of the time. You have half of your normal ship list left vs half of your opponent's Acewing/Fat Turretwing list and you're losing.

And you can't block them once with your net of numerical superiority? Really, if you block them up once, you beat them.

Sorry, before you post a response I just want to say I'm not looking to start a flame war. That last comment I left was needlessly snippy. Just like to spark some discussion.

Your match up will inevitably have an affect on your game, but the way you fly it still matters. Block Corran with one of your Crack TIEs, and let the other ones snort their crack. Corran will fold.

So an expensive ship that can solo a similar number of points is a problem? Makes sense to me... 50 points should be able to beat, equal, or come very very close to beating another 50 points of another style. As should 100 points vs 100.

Sorry, didn't word my statements well enough.

It's a problem when you have ~48 points of normal ships like TIEs or whatever that autolose to a 48 point Corran. 60 points of normal ships such as TIE Fighters autolose to a 58 point Dash.

It's not actually all that close most of the time. You have half of your normal ship list left vs half of your opponent's Acewing/Fat Turretwing list and you're losing.

And you can't block them once with your net of numerical superiority? Really, if you block them up once, you beat them.

Sorry, before you post a response not I just want to say I'm looking to start a flame war. That last comment I left was needlessly snippy. Just like to spark some discussion.

Your match up will inevitably have an affect on your game, but the way you fly it still matters. Block Corran with one of your Crack TIEs, and let the other ones snort their crack. Corran will fold.

I'm not talking about Crackshot. Honestly Crackshot is OP and it's allowed 2 attack dice ships to compete with Acewing bull. I don't mind that it's OP but 6 Crackshots is really the only type of 'jouster' list that has a chance in this meta besides for Panic Attack.

But if you're flying 5x Kirahxz or BBBBZ you've already lost once you get to that, "I have 3 Kirahxz's left vs. Super Dash" situation that happens very often. There is just nothing you can do, you have 60 points left and your opponent has super 58 points left.