N0-1_H3r3 said:

True but the Space Marine commander has the option to build the mini with a stormbolter in one hand and a melee in the other one, which caused my question.

True but the Space Marine commander has the option to build the mini with a stormbolter in one hand and a melee in the other one, which caused my question.

Bolded for emphasis.

Cifer said:

Fair enough =P It's also true the same mini has the selection of combis in the same place..

Cifer said:

Also, in the 40k wargame, a character can carry either 2 one handed weapons, or 1 one handed weapon and 1 two handed weapon. The Stormbolter in that case would be a two handed weapon, allowing the Commander to wield an extra 1 handed weapon. The Stormbolter, however, would not count as an additional weapon in melee (so no bonus for 2 close combat weapons).

MILLANDSON said:

Weapon carrying limits appear to be getting more relaxed these days - the average Chaos Space Marine or Space Wolves Grey Hunter carries a Bolter, Bolt Pistol and Chainsword, along with both frag and krak grenades, and normal Tactical Marines only lack the Chainsword from that selection of equipment.

Characters are still a little more restricted in how many weapons they can carry, but that's more to limit weapon combinations than a matter of practical limitation.

True but I asked because I don't have RT yet and don't know if it's listed as Pistol or Basic weapon =/ I'm starting to feel like a drug addict looking for fix waiting the **** package lol

Still, at least the Storm rules have been explained. It's just a shame that the explaination is nothing like what is written in the book.

Something else for the errata maybe ? =P

MILLANDSON said:

Actually, this is exactly how I understood the book to mean when I read it. I only asked the question because others read it differently. The only thing 'new', is the double ammo cost, which Sam admitted wasn't stated in the book. So, it could have been worded better in the rules, sure. I don't think I'd go so far as to say it is nothing like what is written, though.

dvang said:

question : where is it defined that rof, is not the same as hit?

normally, 1 success, is the same as 1 hit, and 1 rate of fire.

here 1 success, is the same as 2 hits, and 1 rate of fire in what you are saying..

but would not 2 shots fired, be counted as 2 rof?
or said, where is it said that 1 shot is not 1 rate of fire?

i have bolded the line that is the one that casts doubt...

duckforceone said:

As I understand it, from what dvang has said, the Storm quality is also supposed to double the RoF (ammo used) of a weapon with that quality (with hits being doubled and capped at the RoF used). The RoF gives an upper limit on the number of hits that may be scored with a shot/burst from a given weapon such that a Storm weapon fired on 'single' shot actually fires two rounds and can thus score 2 hits with a 'single' shot.

(Storm can also be worded as taking effect after the (original) RoF limits of the weapon with double ammo expenditure, but the net effect is the same - the number of hits cannot exceed the number of rounds fired)

As Khouri said. A better context from my question was pointing out that if Storm applies before the ROF limits ie, in single shot only a single hit can ever occur, making Storm useless for single shot, and reducing the need for successes with semi and full auto to reach max ROF. This would make the Storm bolter more accurate, since in essence you are giving the Storm Bolter an extra degree of success. Specifically, with a ROF of S/2/4 .. firing on semi you don't need any degrees of success to reach the ROF of 2, since just succeeding would reach 2 hits. Sam points out in his reply, that the Storm bolter is not more accurate, it simply puts out more rounds.

So, as his reply states, 2 hits for the first round, and two hits for each degree of success. The "up to the ROF" applies to the number of degrees of success the SB can achieve, before applying Storm. Before you can apply the Storm quality, you need to know how many successes and hits you have. So, treat the Storm Bolter as a normal weapon (ignoring Storm for the moment) and find out, based upon firing mode, how many degrees of success and how many hits are caused. Then, double the number of hits for the Storm quality and expend twice the ammo listed.

To do otherwise, contradicts where Sam said that the first hit causes 2 hits, since in single shot this could never happen.

I presume Dodge interacts with the Storm quality after it has been applied?

For example if A shoots B and rolls a simple success B will need to pass their Dodge test by 1 degree in order to avoid both shots (as opposed to a simple success avoiding the original hit that would then be doubled by the Storm quality).

Easy way to work Storm in with every rule:

1) FIRST calculate the attack as if the weapon doesn't have Storm. Calculate the attack's DoS, the target's dodge, and everything else normally.

2) AFTER everything else is figured, double the hits generated and the ammo consumed.

I would apply Dodge after Storm, personally. After all, you need to know how many hits total are generated before rolling to dodge. I could see going the other way, too, though. There are advantages and disadvantages to both methods. However, it seems more in line with "more rounds downrange" to have dodge apply after Storm so each degree of success negates one hit, rather than each degree of success negating 2 hits.

I consider it analogous to Dual Shot (successful Dodge Test negates both hits) and thus will go with HappyDaze's interpretation. As success automatically means a double hit, both bolters have to fire synchronously. Following the Dual Shot approach, successful dodging negates both hits as both bolts would hit the same spot.

Dodge vs. Storm:

Simple, you negate one hit per DoS...

So 7 rounds hit you, you would need 6 DoS to be safe...

Santiago said:

Can you explain why exactly each "storm" hit is a double hit in another way than I explained it?

So with Storm, you are always seeing double. A single shot is a single from each side of the gun. No wonder a certain Sororitas in my DH game wants one.

Hey, if I'm going to be the only one in the group with a weapon that can fire full-auto, I might as well get the best. Well, since I can't take heavy weapons, anyway.

Comparing Storm with Twin-Linked would seem to make Storm pretty lackluster unless Dodge removed hits after Storm takes effect.

Unless I think of a good reason otherwise, I will be resolving DoS, RoF, and hits first, then applying Storm, then applying Dodge and ammo consumption.

My interpretation of the twinlinked rule is to always apply the +20 bonus, even to suppressive fire, and only add the extra hit/2DoS to single shot. Single +20 BS, 1 extra hit if 2DoS (max 2 hits total).
Semi +30 BS, extra hits for every 2DoS (max 2*rof).
Full-auto +40 BS, extra hits for every DoS (max 2*rof).
Suppressive +0 BS, extra hits for every 2DoS (max 2*rof).

Storm qualtiy doubles number of hits and ammo expenditure after everything else is calculated (including number of hits and dodge).

The effect of this is that twinlinked weapons waste a lot of ammo but usually hit something and that storm weapons if they hit put more bullets in the target.

Should a double-barrelled shotgun have the Storm quality?

It'd depend if it's set up to fire both shells at once, or a trigger for each barrel.

If both barrels are fired at once, a S/-/- with Scatter and Storm could be really nasty at Point Blank Range!

And to get really silly, a Double-Barrelled Assault Shotgun with S/3/- Scatter and Storm! OK, not very realistic, but stil...