2 questions: Storm and crew quality

By Bilateralrope, in Rogue Trader Rules Questions

The questions are unrelated.

First the storm quality on page 117. If I'm reading it right then the storm bolter on full auto gives you:

- 1 hit with a success.

- 3 hits with one degree of success.

- 4 hits with two or more degrees of success as you hit the max fire rate.

It just seems a bit odd that it gives an odd number of hits until you reach the maximum fire rate. Am I reading this right ?

Also is there any way to upgrade crew quality (pg 193) after ship creation ?

For the starting ship I haven't found anything. If the PCs are buying a new ship, it looks like the quality of the crew would alter the SP cost of the ship, and thus alter the roll.

As to upgrading the crew I see 2 main ways. First is a acquisition roll based off of number you need, quality you want, and availability (do your recruiting at a hive wold). The second is through gameplay and GM decision. He could decide that after all those battles you have been through the crew has in general become better. Or perhaps your characters can embark on a training regime for your crew (much like in real life navies) running exercises and drills etc to sharpen them up. With the GM deciding when/if you are successful.

Obviously this could be built on alot and there come to mind plenty of ideas involved on how to make it part of an endevour:)

Bilateralrope said:

First the storm quality on page 117. If I'm reading it right then the storm bolter on full auto gives you:

- 1 hit with a success.

- 3 hits with one degree of success.

- 4 hits with two or more degrees of success as you hit the max fire rate.

It just seems a bit odd that it gives an odd number of hits until you reach the maximum fire rate. Am I reading this right ?

The way I read it each hit is doubled. So on full-auto a single success will score two hits and each degree of success thereafter will score an additional two hits up to the RoF of the weapon used.

Khouri said:

The way I read it each hit is doubled. So on full-auto a single success will score two hits and each degree of success thereafter will score an additional two hits up to the RoF of the weapon used.

Which was exactly what Bilateralrope said - afterall, you still get 1 hit for simply passing the Ballistic Skill test, before you consider any Degrees of Success.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Khouri said:

The way I read it each hit is doubled. So on full-auto a single success will score two hits and each degree of success thereafter will score an additional two hits up to the RoF of the weapon used.

Which was exactly what Bilateralrope said - afterall, you still get 1 hit for simply passing the Ballistic Skill test, before you consider any Degrees of Success.

But what I was saying is that you get two hits for simply passing the BS test with a storm weapon when fired on semi/full-auto burst.

No Bilateralrope is right, that is how I read it...

Storm = double the hits inflicted on the target.

A storm weapon will inflict two hits in single shot mode, regardless.

So, on full auto you go:

Pass the BS test = 2 hits

Pass with a degree of success = 4 hits.

That point, you have to decide whether the RoF detrmines shots or hits. If it is shots, you could go up to 4 for 3 degrees of success for a total of 8 hits, if hits, you stop at 1 degree of success.

Little Dave said:

Storm = double the hits inflicted on the target.

A storm weapon will inflict two hits in single shot mode, regardless.

So, on full auto you go:

Pass the BS test = 2 hits

Pass with a degree of success = 4 hits.

That point, you have to decide whether the RoF detrmines shots or hits. If it is shots, you could go up to 4 for 3 degrees of success for a total of 8 hits, if hits, you stop at 1 degree of success.

Incorrect. The Storm trait means, when used in fully automatic , every DoS gives you two hits.

This means, on single shot mode, only a single shot is fired, not two.

Then, on full auto, it goes:

Pass test = 1 hit

1DoS = 3 hits

2DoS = 5 hits (though only actually 4 hits, since that's the max rate of fire for the weapon).

That is because just passing the test gives zero DoS, and the Storm quality only doubles hits for DoS. Either way, you only have to roll half the number of DoS for all 4 shots to hit, which is good.

MILLANDSON said:

Incorrect. The Storm trait means, when used in fully automatic , every DoS gives you two hits.

I'm away from my copy of RT atm, but I thought the first line of the Storm trait was that hits counted double. The remaining text then expanded on this point explaining that, as a result, each DoS would grant two additional hits up to the RoF limit of the weapon as usual.

Well the storm quality doesn't say it's only when used in full auto that you double the hits, in fact it says in the first sentence that "A weapon with the Storm Quality doubles the amount of hits inflicted on the target." - No mention of only for full auto. It does then go on to talk about full auto, but only as an example. Nor does it say anywhere that you only double hits for degrees of success.

You could say you're limited to 1 hit for single shot regardless though, since 1 is the max rate of fire for that mode. Then on semi-auto you only need to pass the BS test and you land 2 hits, any further degrees of success are wasted. In full-auto you get 2 hits for passing the BS test, and another 2 for getting one degree of success.

Landing 1/2/4 hits like that seems okay to me. It makes the weapon no more powerful in single shot, but easier to score multiple hits with in semi-auto and full-auto. It would be great to treat it as two boltguns firing at once (which to my mind it pretty much is), and have the rate of fire as 2/4/8, but I think that's going a bit far!

Landing 1/2/4 hits like that seems okay to me. It makes the weapon no more powerful in single shot, but easier to score multiple hits with in semi-auto and full-auto. It would be great to treat it as two boltguns firing at once (which to my mind it pretty much is), and have the rate of fire as 2/4/8, but I think that's going a bit far!

Considering the availability, I think it's meant to be going far.

To quote the book:
When firing a weapon with the Storm special ability on full auto, each degree of success will yield 2 addtional hits on the target (Up to the weapons firing rate, as normal)

So making as basic hit, eg. making the test by 9 or less will yield 1 hit, one degree of success will yield 1 + 2 successes, 3.

One might argue the RoF of the Stormbolter is to low, is this I agree but the Storm ability works as explained above.

I would suggest the RoF be S/4/6 or S/2/6

Santiago said:

To quote the book:
When firing a weapon with the Storm special ability on full auto, each degree of success will yield 2 addtional hits on the target (Up to the weapons firing rate, as normal)

So making as basic hit, eg. making the test by 9 or less will yield 1 hit, one degree of success will yield 1 + 2 successes, 3.

One might argue the RoF of the Stormbolter is to low, is this I agree but the Storm ability works as explained above.

I would suggest the RoF be S/4/6 or S/2/6

Yes but the first line of the Storm Quality states "A weapon with the Storm Quality doubles the amount of hits inflicted on the target" and then cites an example using fully automatic mode. When you pass a BS test you score a hit, the storm quality doubles this to 2 and will double any additional hits scored from semi or fully automatic bursts.

EDIT: I should add that as always you cannot exceed the RoF used, so a single shot with a Storm weapon wouldn't score two hits.

llsoth said:

As to upgrading the crew I see 2 main ways. First is a acquisition roll based off of number you need, quality you want, and availability (do your recruiting at a hive wold). The second is through gameplay and GM decision. He could decide that after all those battles you have been through the crew has in general become better. Or perhaps your characters can embark on a training regime for your crew (much like in real life navies) running exercises and drills etc to sharpen them up. With the GM deciding when/if you are successful.

Obviously this could be built on alot and there come to mind plenty of ideas involved on how to make it part of an endevour:)

I'm going to be the gm when the game starts. So now I need to figure out some way to allow the players to feel like they are training/replacing tens of thousands of crew members.

My players will be wanting to upgrade the crew when they realise that I'm applying that skill level to the rolls of the ships medics. Those medics will be assisted by two others, and there will be enough medics to avoid penalties for treating multiple patients, but that still means that a medicae roll of 90+ will hurt them for a crack crew.

Storm is supposed to be a better form of twin linked, but I do not know how the two compare directly, bit tired to run some numbers. Plus I'm not sure the Storm bolter has a 'single shot' mode, one pull of the trigger would be a shot per barrel = 2. I think each shot is worked out as if were a single shell, for number of hits and rate of fire, then is doubled as it effectively two shells going where one would. Storm bolters are meant to be very nasty.

FYI: I asked FFG about the Storm quality.

I can understand your confusion. The storm bolter inflicts two hits
for the first hit, and two hits for every additional degree of
success. It inflicts two additional hits per degree of success up to
the weapon's ROF. It also (and this is not explicitly mentioned)
expends double ammo.

Basically, the storm bolter is designed to put more shots on target,
not do so more accurately. It is a horrendously effective weapon,
though, which is why storm bolters are carried by Space Marine
Terminators.

So, the Storm quality takes affect after the ROF limitation.

A SB on Single-shot will, with a successful BS test, 'hit' once then doubled to 2 hits total.

A SB on semi-auto can 'hit' twice max due to ROF, equaling 4 hits total (double each hit)

A SB on full auto can 'hit' four times max due to ROF, equaling 8 hits total (double each hit)

It uses up ammo at a rate of: 2/4/8

Well that is one for the Eratta, figured something was wrong because the "normal" bolter in RT was about just as powerful...****

No it doubles the number of hits so 2 hits for a hit then 1 degree of sucess is 4 hits. The second sentence is just an example and should not be read as part of the rule.

Thats how I read it anyway.

Kaihlik

dvang said:

FYI: I asked FFG about the Storm quality.

I can understand your confusion. The storm bolter inflicts two hits
for the first hit, and two hits for every additional degree of
success. It inflicts two additional hits per degree of success up to
the weapon's ROF. It also (and this is not explicitly mentioned)
expends double ammo.

Basically, the storm bolter is designed to put more shots on target,
not do so more accurately. It is a horrendously effective weapon,
though, which is why storm bolters are carried by Space Marine
Terminators.

So, the Storm quality takes affect after the ROF limitation.

A SB on Single-shot will, with a successful BS test, 'hit' once then doubled to 2 hits total.

A SB on semi-auto can 'hit' twice max due to ROF, equaling 4 hits total (double each hit)

A SB on full auto can 'hit' four times max due to ROF, equaling 8 hits total (double each hit)

It uses up ammo at a rate of: 2/4/8

Neat, that more than makes up for a seeming lack of improved RoF when compared to a traditional bolter.

Going through 8 rounds of ammo per trigger pull in FA mode is going to leave your clips dry in a short time. Whatever you're firing at is going to be paste, but let's hope there's not too many of them.

OTOH, at least it doesn't take as long to reload as a **** Plasma Pistol.

HappyDaze said:

Going through 8 rounds of ammo per trigger pull in FA mode is going to leave your clips dry in a short time. Whatever you're firing at is going to be paste, but let's hope there's not too many of them.

OTOH, at least it doesn't take as long to reload as a **** Plasma Pistol.

The storm bolter has a clip of 60 with a full action reload.

7 rounds of full auto then. If what you're shooting isn't dead you either have my luck or you are using the wrong gun.

Since the size of the stormbolter is bigger then a bolt pistol but smaller then a bolter does it get -30 BS for firing in melee ?

The Storm Bolter follows the usual rules for Basic Weapons and is no smaller than the Boltgun. It's possible to take a Compact Storm Bolter, but otherwise it's a rather large Basic Weapon.

Lucius Valerius said:

Since the size of the stormbolter is bigger then a bolt pistol but smaller then a bolter does it get -30 BS for firing in melee ?

Technically, a Stormbolter should be bigger than a bolter - it is, afterall, two bolters stuck together with a single trigger. Terminators get to wield them one-handed because they're in Terminator Armour - they can wield assault cannons and heavy flamers one-handed, so a stormbolter is no problem for them. IMO, the best demonstration of a stormbolter wielded by a human is the Sister of Battle special weapons models , while the version carried by Commissar Yarrick is most likely a Compact one.