Ghaston Grey and Bodyguards

By Babarock, in Rules Questions

What would happen if Ghaston Grey is sacrificed to remove a card with a Bodyguard attached to it?

I'm only asking because GG's text box says "Cannot be saved" and Bodyguard mentions saving a character.

If the character is in fact returned to its owner's hand, what happens to the bodyguard card?

- The "cannot be saved" text on Ghaston Grey means that you are not allowed to attempt to save a character from its effects, so since "cannot" is absolute in this game, no "save" effect can be triggered in an attempt to avoid the results of your opponent using GG.

- Even if you could trigger save effects against Ghaston Grey, Bodyguard specifically says "when attached character would be killed or discarded from play...". GG does neither of those things (it returns cards to hand - NOT the same as discarding or killing), so the play restriction for Bodyguard wouldn't be met, anyway. You couldn't trigger it.

- Like all attachments that do not have the "Terminal" keyword, Bodyguard is returned to your hand when the attached character leaves play.

Duplicates can save against anything that would make a character leave play (unless it says cannot be saved). Bodyguards are somewhat limited and can only save against kill and discard.

"Would leave play" includes absolutely any effect that starts with a card in play and ends with it in any out of play location (hand, deck, discard pile, dead pile, etc.).

"Discarded from play" is only an effect that uses the term "discard" to take a card in play and move it to the discard pile.

So, all "discard from play" effects are "leave play" effect, but not all "leave play" effects are "discard from play" effects. Kind of like all thumbs are fingers, but not all fingers are thumbs.

In Play and Out of Play

The cards (generally characters, locations, attachments,

duplicates, and the faction card) that a player controls in

the play area, the title card a player currently bears in a

melee game, as well as a player’s revealed plot card, are

considered “in play.”

“Out of play” refers to all other cards and areas involved

in the game environment, including: cards in a player’s

hand, deck, discard pile, dead pile, plot deck, used pile,

agendas, and any cards that have been removed from

the game.

xx A card enters play when it transitions from an out of

play origin to a play area.

xx A card leaves play when it transitions from a play

area to an out of play destination.

xx A player’s faction card cannot leave play.

xx Outside of the process by which a player reveals a

new plot his or her previously revealed plot card

enters the used pile, a player's plot card cannot

leave play.

Discard Pile

The discard pile is an out of play area. It is distinct

from the dead pile.

xx Any time a card is “discarded” (from play or from

an out of play area such as a hand or deck), it is

placed faceup on top of its owner’s discard pile.

xx Each player’s discard pile is open information, and

may be looked at by any player at any time.

xx The order of the cards in a discard pile may not be

altered unless a player is instructed to do so by a

card ability.

xx If multiple cards are discarded simultaneously, the

owner of the cards may physically place them into

his or her discard pile one at a time, in any order.

Basically, "Discard" is just one type of way that a card can leave play. If a card is discarded, it leaves play. If it would be returned to hand, it leaves play. If it's killed, it leaves play. A duplicate can save the card from leaving play for any reason--a "save" basically just keeps it in play--unless an effect like Ghaston Grey specifically prohibits you from trying to save the card at all.

(It's worth noting that even though duplicates can normally save a card from being returned to hand, they don't help against Ghaston Grey because of the "cannot be saved".)