On the Internet Boats, presumably.

Is that called 300 baud dialup?

I couldn't put it off any longer. Today was when I had to decide which campaign I'd be running next. If I'd decided to run a DH2 campaign, I'd have two choices:

- Declare that Enemies Without character creation options are not available to anyone.

- Allow them for players who make a new character after the PDF is released. Letting some players use character creation options I've denied to other players is too likely to cause drama at the table that I don't want.

As a result I decided to run a game in a different system. One where I wouldn't have to worry about that issue. One that I just purchased a supplement for. Which means I will not be buying Enemies Without for a while. Possibly never.

Congratulations FFG, by delaying the PDF you just got me to buy a supplement for a system that you have nothing to do with.

Getting fed up of waiting for this. Personally I feel if you're going to run a digital-only beta to pump funds into your business, then you should at least release the digital copies at the same time as the books. A month on from release and still no sign of this. My money will be going elsewhere I think

Out of curiosity, has FFG done a better job of optimizing their PDFs? I recall that some of their older ones filled with artwork would cause older computers and tablets to chug from trying to render them and it could take several seconds just to load a new page. This was a few years ago that I last experienced this, mind you.

The DH2ed PDFs I have all run very smoothly, so I think the optimization is fine, at least.

As for the delay in releasing the PDF, it certainly seems that based on this thread the decision is losing FFG business and rightly so.

When you download a illegal reproduction of the product, you are denying yourself a vote in the way the business runs. This is the reason I hate it when companies release "free" products. The products are not truly free, only that other people are paying for them. Businesses will do what the people paying them tell them what to do. It is stupid to surrender that power and live at the mercy of others.

There's so much wrong with that statement I don't know where to begin. I really don't mean any offense by that, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but it feels so completely out of touch with reality. I wished we lived in a world where it worked in the idealized way you think it does, but we don't. Not really. Maybe a tiny percentage of businesses out there work like that, but not most. FFG is certainly not one of them. I've given them quite a lot of money over the years and never have I once felt like they have ever genuinely listened to me as a customer or valued my contribution to keeping their company alive. Overall, I feel more abused than anything. And when a company treats you that way you stop buying. That is really the only voice you have. "I wanted to support you. I wanted to help you. I wanted you to succeed. But you wouldn't let me. You didn't value me." Buying doesn't give you a vote. Not buying does. In that context, Piracy is voting and it's also a warning sign for the company from the consumer to check themselves. "Hey, we want this product, but you aren't providing it to us. Don't you think you might be screwing up? Don't you want to succeed? We'd really like to support your game line. No? Maybe the next company will do better."

I can actually point you to major companies in the industry where if we were having this discussion on their forum somebody from the company would pop-in, acknowledge the discussion, and give genuine feedback (and not standard corporate drivel) from the company's perspective. That no one from FFG has done so yet, I think, is entirely indicative of the problem. Customers aren't just credit cards and profit margins. They aren't rage-beasts that exist to get upset at every decision made by your company. They are people who would like to be treated as such. I don't think that there's anything wrong with that.

To be fair, these forums have had their share of "Rage beasts". But that said, yeah, a month's a little long to wait! What about it Tim? You have any wisdom to share on the subject? I know you read these forums!

I just buy both.. I buy the book form because I like books , and like to have it on my self, and to flick through it, I will buy the PDF because it is easier to use and navigate for real games.

I'm really looking forward to being able to read the book, but this really worries me as to the future of the line. Will we have to wait in a similar manner when Enemies Beyond comes out? What about if there is another 2nd Edition line? Will we have to wait an additional month or more when Rogue Trader or Deathwatch (hopefully) gets that treatment?

I really love the 40k gamelines but my group and I only have so much time to play them. We have a timetable involving various games run by differing GMs, with a lot of system variation. By delaying products, they're effectively reducing the amount of utility I can feasibly get out of them and making them worth less to me in the long run. I might only get to play DH2e for a few more months and I would really like as much content as possible to play around with. If I don't get it within that window, besides the fantastic art and lore, it becomes almost useless to me.

I'm really looking forward to being able to read the book, but this really worries me as to the future of the line. Will we have to wait in a similar manner when Enemies Beyond comes out? What about if there is another 2nd Edition line? Will we have to wait an additional month or more when Rogue Trader or Deathwatch (hopefully) gets that treatment?

I really love the 40k gamelines but my group and I only have so much time to play them. We have a timetable involving various games run by differing GMs, with a lot of system variation. By delaying products, they're effectively reducing the amount of utility I can feasibly get out of them and making them worth less to me in the long run. I might only get to play DH2e for a few more months and I would really like as much content as possible to play around with. If I don't get it within that window, besides the fantastic art and lore, it becomes almost useless to me.

This will be the case for all FFG games. They've never seemed to be too keen on PDFs (they also have some of the most expensive PDFs in the industry). Consider yourself lucky you're not playing the Star Wars game line, which, due to an issue with the license (PDFs get counted as "electronic games" which are instead licensed to a richer video game company), those game lines have no and will never have PDFs. The Warhanmer Fantasy rpg had a bunch of components including cards which were never made available in PDF form by FFG and effectively doomed the system to only be available to as many people as they printed copies of the game. It has PDFs, but they're missing half of the content released in the physical packages.

And they finally released it on DriveThruRPG. Wonderful.

It is out

Praise the Omnissiah!

Still baffled as to why it took so long, but am also still willing to throw money at it.

So everyone help me remember when this happens again with Enemies Beyond, the answer is "about a month and a half".

Is 6 weeks correct? That sounds like a nice number...

Link for the lazy:
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/168180/Dark-Heresy-Second-Edition-Enemies-Without

Is 6 weeks correct? That sounds like a nice number...

The first announcement in these forums (at least that I saw) that it was available was made on Oct 27th; which if I'm not mistaken, was in fact exactly 6 weeks before yesterday.

By jove I think we have it!

They had released the PDF a week or two after the launch of the book before.

Bought it, love it!

I do prefer the hardcopies but living in Australia in can take some time to get my paws on a copy so I do like them making the PDFs available as soon as possible to allow me to start delving in.

I'm not the happiest with Enemies Without, myself. It doesn't really have much information on a lot of the aliens; a lot of the stuff veterans to the setting may know but others have no clue on. There's only maybe a sentence or two talking about 'strange Ork physiology meaning you have to scorch the earth to prevent their return in a generation,' for example. I wrote a two-page 'explanation' of Orks for the guy who takes over my Dark Heresy game every couple months so I have time to write up fresh stuff. He pointed out almost none of it was mentioned. No stats for Necrons besides some weapons? A pair of 'these might be Tyranids?' No more information on Miandrothe, the local Craftworld and source of almost all normal Eldar in the sector? I had to figure out their colors by a small, undetailed piece of art; no Craftworld sign, no 'here are how they mobilize' except 'they are a very sparsely populated Craftworld.'

I love the new CC options, the weapon stats, and a number of the interesting tidbits thrown out as adventure hooks and planetary information, but the information about the Enemy Without is too sparse.

And Ace is still hobbled by a lack of decent vehiciles, and not having the right Apitudes with many backgrounds to get cheap Operate ranks (unless you houserule stuff).

And Ace only has one aptitude for the Operate skill, meaning you have to choose your homeworld/background specifically so you can do what your Role entails, pilot vehicles really well.

Which is pretty stupid. Frankly I don't think that Fieldcraft should be an Apitude for Operate. It should be Agility/Tech instead, which any Ace would get. And it would make the Tech aptitude slightly better as a bonus.

Which is pretty stupid. Frankly I don't think that Fieldcraft should be an Apitude for Operate. It should be Agility/Tech instead, which any Ace would get. And it would make the Tech aptitude slightly better as a bonus.

That's exactly what I ended up houseruling.

Now I want a vehicles book.