Yes, I mean it's less automatic. You have to attack to get your momentum

(Even with Mishima Zaibatsu out, if the opponent doesn't care for momentum, it might as well be a blank card.)

However, War Between Sisters and Mishima Zaibatsu Leader shut down PotE very easily. Actually, it's sad that it's shut down that easily, so if PotE is the game-changer that you say, then Air, Chaos, Death and Void just gained new staples. How about From the Mouse, Humility, which is Chain Throw E on a stick, also shutting down PotE?

Getting two momentum for PotE is only ever anything RESEMBLING easy through Death. Order and Void decks will die before they get the chance.

I'll wait until the next set drops to make a more informed decision, but as it stands, PotE would be a game-changing card if it were possible to play.

guitalex2008 said:

Which is **** sad in it's own right. All symbols should have some benefit with having some momentum. Not a lot, but SOME.

With rotation, there's not much Fire needs with a momentum. The one Powerful attack off of Fire I remember is Lightning Horn, if it's at less than printed damage. Multiples? Fury of the Ancients, who Zi Mei doesn't care if there's momentum because she'd rather blow crap up and add to All Life is Gay.

Momentum costs? Maybe on Steve Fox, who gets shut down by a Pommel Smash.

Temujin's Powerful:3 is the only possible use for momentum in Fire.

Momentum should have a say in the way the game is going. But other than magically having 2 and a PotE in hand, not much momentum CAN do.

guitalex2008 said:

In PotE's symbols - off Void you have King of the Ring and Body of Souls. Off Death/Evil... I don't remember.

Off Death you have Flexible Body.

ShippuJinrai said:

...why would you run Two Deadly Rings?

@Shinji- It's one of the most cost effective pokes in the format at essentially free, fantastic utility, mid that leads into launcher breaker combo, breaker 2 on a mid block, synergizes well with need to destroy, is basically free momentum unless an opponent wants to burn a block on it, fuels path very well as the symbol spread usually matches two with a character that would chose to run it, and... has cool art. Card has been very good for us in testing and we heart it. Very solid in death. Give it a shot! Youll love it.

2 deadly rings is a really great card, it does wonders in many decks, from Nina to Heiachi. Stun 2, Breaker 2, 2 difficulty attack = very useful and playable after a sting of multiples.

- dut

dutpotd said:

Off of Death, especially off of Nina... it can also do wonders.

More often than not, I find the best Death line-up to be:

4x Knight Breaker
3x Midnight Launcher
4x Leg Slash
3x Crushing Embrace of the Jotun
3x Flooded-Nile Throw

Or something to that effect.

MarcoPulleaux said:

Thats a fine lineup, but the thing with flooded nile is its only ever a 4 to 2 damage attack. No real added utility. 2drt shines in that it provides excellent utility (akin to wheel kick) and really gives you the same payoff without running the risk of having to commit a foundation to pass it. Its block is more useful on the back of breaker, opponents are much more skeptical towards blocking it, and all around it just provides more options than flood nile. Neither attack can be pumped by unstoppable warrior either so its not like youre missing out on that damage.

And 4 midnight launchers... every time. Aboslutely no reason not to run one of the best attacks in death as a 4 of. Death has trouble with their kill turn anyways. No sense in gimping yourself in damage. And besides, nobody ever says "aw yeah i drew 3 LEG SLASH THIS TURN! Youre dead as ****." That is a frequent occurrence with Launchers.

ShippuJinrai said:

Makes me laugh, I would say that with Leg Slash - not many low blocks around ^^

We had this death lineup issue discussion in my meta and the dude took out the nile throw on my advice, but didn't replace it with rings. He ended up losing the next day almost definately becuase he didn't have a throw and couldn't get early game momentum as often. So, there are pros and cons to each (keep in mind, your lineup looks like it doesn't need momentum, his lineup had multiple attacks as well)...

Personally (and I'm not going to tell others to follow this) I don't often run 4X of any attack. I can't bear to unless the attack is absolutely pivotal to me winning. The way I look at it is a 4X is a card I will play first turn of the game, the reason there are 4 and not 3 is solely so I draw into that opening turn more often than not. I rarely, if ever, intend to attack first turn, as such you don't see many 4X of attacks in a dutpotd deck. Maybe a bad thing?

- dut

Ever since I've been playing MTG from friggin ALPHA (yes, ALPHA) onwards, I'lve always loved 3x of a card more than 4x, for purely mathematical reasons since I can run 4 different cards at 3x or 3 different cards at 4x, and I like moar cards! So I feel you there.

However, with certain attacks in my decks, the consistency factor tends to outweigh the dead card factor and that's why I run 4x of critical attacks if I can. Like in Hata I absolutely need 4x Hammers because it wins me the game or does serious effing damage every time I draw it, so why not? Also, the blocks on some attacks are so **** good that it also has to be a factor. Not with Launcher, obviously, but in general that's my thinking.

Plus, I'm less afraid to pitch attacks early if I need more grey/green in my staging area since I know I have 4 copies to potentially see.

VikramS said:

Yup, I'd say Knight Breaker is also something I'd almost always 4 of... It is that pivotal of a control, damage, and defensive card.

It really all depends though and fairly minor to overall sucess, that said it is these tweaks for comfort and for final percentages that distinguish a really good from a great deck ^^

- dut

I dont know Vik. I have a long history with ccgs too and ive always liked the aspect of having as many opportunities to draw a specific card as possible. The way i see it, if i dont want to see it every game, why play with it? I had people telling me constantly when i was tossing around king builds to not run 4 potm. My response: Hell naw! I want to hit key cards in EVERY game i ever play. So in order to do that i want to run as much redundancy/tutoring as possible. Bloodline rebellion was more like 3 more copies of path/close throw ( WHEN I WOULD ******* HIT WITH IT) than a damage pump. I certainly see where you and Dut are coming from. Flexibility is crucial in deck building. However, i guess my school of thought (and the school of thought of my playgroup and team) really stress more redundancy than anything. To each their own i suppose.

And besides Vik, youre a 2-3 luck sacking scrub that sacks his way to pertinent regional wins. Why should anybody listen to you anyways?

ShippuJinrai said:

Definately 2 schools of thought. I actually like winning with different methods and often, it really forces the opponent to change their defensive posture becuase they don't know what to expect. i.e. most of my decks will have these attack numbers 3-3-2-2-2-2-2 = 16. The 3 of cards are usually defensive or both o and d minded, and the 2s are all able to kill and in different ways shapes and forms.

I agree with 4 of key cards though, even assets. I run 4X two different unique assets in many decks as long as the character has a 7hs. If it is a 6hs character I like to run one 4X and 2 2X. Or maybe 2 3X, it all depends.

- dut

The only reason I don't like 4x Midnight Launcher is because I still remember the days of 4x Shoulder Rush in 6 handers of days past.

Never worked too terribly well for them =/

Mostly in UFS I do prefer 4x of a card, as is apparent with the Hata deck, but I will do sneaky stuff like the 1x PtP, and the 3x copies of non-critical foundations, and so on and so forth.

In MTG, I'm am far more likely to use 3x of a card than 4x because of personal preference, no other really overriding reasons. I mean if I'm playing a combo deck like Elf Ball or something that's different, but I like stuffing the most different cards as possible into MTG decks.

Also I'm used to playing EDH the last few years, that makes it simpler - there can be only one!!!

Highlander variants in UFS are so fun. And they make deck-building so much nicer! You get to put in ALL the different cards you want, and a few more to boot!

ARMed_PIrate said:

VikramS said:

yeah until you build a deck that cant be beat and then it kind of gets boring...we had 4 uber-highlander events at my store and i won every single one with ****Raphael**** wind rush (uber meaning banned cards were legal)