From the front page. In the descriptor, more info regarding DotDG & Rogue Trader

http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=257

Thanks for the heads up, Wu. Will give this a listen.

Post interview notes:

Rogue Trader & Death Watch are in the works, all games will be compatible with Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader will allow for DH charcters to progress up to higher ranks. DH described as Tier 1 level PCs, RT Tier 2 type PCs and DW as Tier 3 PCs (Sorry, the implication was no SM just normal humans working in support of Marines.)

Rogue Trader is looking to start players out at the higher ranks or allow for a DH charcter to move from their DH rank into higher ranks, So it looks like all three will be compatible and all three games are planned to be done. Also it seems that the other games can be used as 'expanding' your character past DH ranks or as a stand alone type of game in itself.

Wasn't that always the plan, though? that was the distinct impression I got back when BI were handling it (although the "Humans in support of Marines" thing for Deathwatch is new).

Sounds interesting, but I don't listen to interviews and rarely to podcasts

I listened to this podcast earlier and found it interesting. Though his words were not that definitive. When he referred to no Space Marines it was after he was asked if "characters from Dark Heresy could progress and carry on/cross over to Rogue Trader or Death Watch" and his answer was "Yes. They wont be Space Marines, but Space Marines need support too."

To me that doesnt rule out Space Marines as DW characters, but implies that Dark Heresy characters are not going to turn into Space Marines.

Also, about the Tiers he mentioned. He said Tier One was sort of starting out competent at your job, already talented and skilled at your profession. TO ME that implies that RT characters will be starting off perhaps at the equivalent of Rank 3 or 4, which makes sense as they will already be world travelers (multiple world travelers even) and it will expand to higher levels of play, again, that doesnt necessarily sound to me like you will start at Rank 9 and go to rank 16, but start at rank 3 to 5 equivalent and your career will still have the 8 ranks, but taking the total up to rank 10 or 12 or something ranks per career.

I assume DW will start equivalent to maybe Rank 6, 7 to 8 and have upwhere to what would be rank 15 if starting at Dark Heresy.

Seems highly influenced by old school D&D with Basic, Expert, Companion, Masters, Immortal sets of rule, each one building off the previous. But with the 40K line the rules for the complete game will be in the core book for each edition/expansion.

Which would be cool, cause in the future that would open them to Xenos RPG settings and so forth.

Well I think it was until recently unconfirmed whether FFG was going to or planning on continuing everything that BI had anounced or stated they were going to do. Just nice to get a bit more 'soild intelegence' on the matter. Although I was a bit suprised to hear of a Death Watch with no Marine PCs although I guesse that fits the theme thus far you have the DH with no Inquisitors as PC and Rogue Trader with no Rogue Trader as PCs (the interview was stating you play as the crew / 'acolytes' of a RT) Still its nice to know theer are plans at least for a good many supplmenst and exspansions.

Hey guys, thanks for listening.

I misspoke slightly in regards to Deathwatch: when you play a Deathwatch game, you will DEFINITELY be playing Space Marines.

I was responding to Veronica's comment about playing a character through all three books, in which case it will be unlikely that specific character will be a Space Marine.

Hopefully that clears things up!

Wu Ming said:

I don't actually recall putting it quite like that. All I can say for now is that Rogue Trader is going to be very different from Dark Heresy in a lot of ways...and that includes what kinds of characters you play!

Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3 game?!?

History doesn't repeat itself, but sometimes it rhymes...in this case its a direct sample...

Its like putting on your gandfather's coat.

This takes me back to the origins of RPing 30 years ago.

I've had to check i'm not having an acid flashback or an episode of dementia...

D&D was originally produced as five 'sets'*, each taking the PCs to the 'next level of power'...and here we are, 30 years later at the cutting edge of RPing with a game derived from BRP and releasing three 'sets', each taking the PCs to the 'next level of power'...

Oh dear...made me giggle.

They do say if you sit on your doorstep long enough the whole world will go by eh?

*Actually the first release in 1974 was a single book, but 'Basic D&D (1st Revision)' in 1977 was five 'sets' (Basic lvl 1-3, Expert lvl 4-14, Companion lvl 15-25, Master lvl 26-36, Immortals (levels? Who needs 'em; we're GODS!)

Its like no one ever reads my posts. Sheesh.

Ha ha I was correct about Death Watch and Ross' comment regarding PC Space Marines.

1977 only saw basic being released, then again in 81, Expert in 81 and again in 83, companion in 85 and Immortals 87 with all 5 in one in 91. I wiki'd it.

I liked it that way, at least for the first two sets, after all, Expert went to level 15 and after that the game just got boring. Ill probably get Death Watch, but never use it.

Nice to hear your sticking with the old Black Industries ideas Ross, was really interesting hearing the interview, keep up he good work!

Peacekeeper_b said:

Sorry Peacekeeper . I leapt straight in from the podcast before reading through the thread...

Then having settled down and read your post...well the lovely new board doesn't let you edit your posts after 5 mins does it....

Good news on the Deathwatch front at least...putting a 40k icon into the PCs hands...should've been from page 1 of DH but there you go*...

And i must say i'm eager for Rogue Trader as it sounds like it'll come the closest to providing an actual 40k RPG, rather than a 'narrow slice' as Ross put it. However, following the entree that was DH, i'm expecting disappointment so that i will hopefully be very pleasantly surprised to be 'proved wrong'...

*Actually i suppose you do get 'icons' like tech priests...they're just nascent and card-board cut out versions...

While space marines are truly iconic when it comes to 40k, I have serious trouble seeing how the could be challenging and even fun to roleplay. But I'm seriously looking forward to Rogue trader!

Jackal_Strain said:

Depends on how you view them i suppose.

The Bloodquest comic shows a very good example of how they could be played, if you see them basically as human.

Personally i see them rather more like 'robots'. Outside of their function (combat, obviously), they really struggle to cope. Put a marine in a local tavern and he quite literally won't know what to do...

Now THAT seems like an interesting character to play...

Why do you think they wouldn't be challenging or fun to play?

I think Space Marines and characters on that level could be fun, just as I think Acolytes at low levels can also be fun.

I just prefer middle ground (you know, D&D 3rd-7th level, when you are fairly competent but not super high and mighty, or street level super heroes). So hopefully Rogue Trader solves all my wants and desires.

I am also pleased to see that Im not the only one who recalls the old boxed editions of D&D. Ahh good times.

Man I feel old.

Luddite said:

It would probably depend on the Chapter. Space Wolves or a similar Chapter would probably be better in a tavern than most others. But an Ultramarine would be better amongst nobility.

I may have mispoken when I said space marines wouldn't be challenging to play. I think they might be too challenging and restricitve for most roleplayers to play (at least according to my vision of them).

Space marines are warrior monks, deeply dedicated to their monasthic side as well as their martial. They are the best trained and equipped soldiers in the imperium and they can fight enemies no one else can. So far this sounds like great fun, but when it comes to their personal motivations, the things that make them tick, I find that the thing that makes them space marines is also what makes them unsuitable as pc's.

When they are not off fighting the enemies of the emperor on a mission or campaign, the spend their days training, praying or maintaining their equipment. They don't go to the bar to blow off some steam. They don't dream of settling down one day and establishing a family on some distant agriworld. In short, they live, breathe and die for the chapter and thats it. They have no aspirations outside being the best soldier they can be. They are not human anymore. They are (in my opinon) one step up from robots

Jackal_Strain said:

Wouldn't that describe acolytes of the Inquisition though?

I mean its not like an acolyte phones in and says, 'sorry Inquisitor i'm going to be late in this morning, i've got to take the kids to the dentist. Karen was doing it but she's got the flu so...i'll be in about 10am. Can we delay the raid until this afternoon?'

'The guardians of a society can never belong to that society', etc.

Humans still have wants and desires, though. Space Marines, reputedly, don't. This obviously isn't a clear cut case, but it's largely true. My main concern with Space Marines as characters is that they're used purely as killing machines. You don't call in the marines to stand guard. You don't call them in to uncover heretical activity. You call them down when you know where the enemy is and want him eliminated, or when there's a breach that's just too tough for any mere human to hold. A pure space marine game would be very much epic battle after epic battle.

A Deathwatch kill-team attached to an Inquisitor could work, however. I remember reading one comic about just such a thing. There was some interesting interactions between the team, especially the marines of the Space Wolf and Dark Angel chapters. It did quickly boil down to "lots of killing needs to be done, epic foes to be faced," however, which is pretty much the marines' style. But I could see them essentially functioning in the Deathwatch RPG as Guardsmen do in DH, so there's no real problem there. But an entire group playing nothing but space marines still strikes me as somewhat limited in it's scope.

Snidesworth said:

That's not neccessarily the case.

The Ultramarines actually govern a secotr of the Imperium. They presumably are therefore more than 'mere killing machines'?

The Red Hunters appear to spend a lot of time helping out the Inquistion, presumably not just with the strength of their bolters.

The Bloodquest comic sets the precedent of 'quests' for the Blood Angels at least.

Our view of SPESH MAAHRINES comes largely from the TT game. A WARgame. OF course the majority of fluff to date, and therefore the current view of marines is largely focussed on their killing ability. Its why my current personal view of them is as 'innocents' and 'juveniles' in social terms away from the field of battle.

However, its clear that Ultramarines at least must be highly competent politicians and governors.

And moving into a roleplaying game requires the areas not previously thought about, focussed on, or included in the WARgame background to be explored and expanded.

So i'm quite prepared to look at space marines as highly complex and interesting characters...

Why don't they have other duties? Emissaries, or advanced scouts. Military advisors to planetary or sector governors.

Why don't they have roving 'investigator' teams?

Who knows what secrets the chapters hold? Who knows what their agenda is? For sure the Dark Angels and Blood Angels have hidden agendas that would justify such teams roaming the imperium and beyond in search of answers. Who knows what politicking and questing the Ultramarines might get up to?

And WHAT roleplaying opportunities!!

So many possibilities once you start to think beyond the cardboard cut-out SPESH MAAHRINE combat-munchkin model...

So you're telling me that the acolytes in your game only acts upon their mission parameters and never on their personal goals and ambitions?

Yup and there goes the classic Space Marine vapid, killing machine vs. Super bad assed person debate, I knew something was missing from the old forums...

Anyway back to the originally topic. For those like Charax that cannot deign to actually listen to an interview, and for those like me who can misunderstand things, I've transcribed some of the 'releveent' parts of the pod cast here you go ... I was suprised at how many times Veronica said 'Cool'.

==========================================

Veronica: Sooo originally when the 40K RPGs were announced, there were three that were proposed, what's the status of that original idea?

Ross: OK well Black Industries came out when they had the license and they said they were going to do three interconnected games Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, and Death Watch. And the status is that Fantasy Flight is planning to do all three of those games.

Veronica: Cool

Ron: Very Cool.

Ross: I think it's awesome. I'm so psyched about the things we're doing with this license. It's just incredible.

Ron: And they all cover really different parts of the 40K universe if I remember correctly.

Ross: Absolutely. Dark Heresy as I said is a very narrow but deep slice of the setting and it shows you things that are related to the Inquisition and while big in the setting is not nearly as broad as some of the other concepts you'll find in Rogue Trader or Death Watch. So yeah, it will be a completely different game experience for each of those three.

Veronica: So next up would be Rogue Trader?

Ross: That's Right! We announced it at GenCon this year that it will be out at GenCon 2009.

Veronica: Ew cool. Is there anything you could tell us about that in advanced?

Ross: Ahhh, I wish I could --

Veronica: --That's OK.

Ross: All I can say is that we're doing a lot of really great work on it right now. And it is going to be; again it is going to be a completely different feel from Dark Heresy. And I guess the one thing I can say about it is this: Dark Heresy if you will is sort of Tier One. You are, In Dark Heresy you're just a normal guy whose been chosen by an Inquisitor and you will eventually become someone he trusts and a powerful member in the Inquisition. Rogue Trader, you're starting out as a competent, you know very competent and experienced member or example of whatever type of character that you are. So it's kind of Tier Two for Rogue Trader, and Death Watch is going to be basically higher than that, it's going to be Tier Three.

Ron: So will all the 40K RPGs be compatible with each other?

Ross: Ah, totally. That is one of our big design goals that if you are playing a Dark Heresy character and you want to join a Rogue Trader on his ship there will be rules n Rogue Trader telling you how to do that, and eventually when you get, when the next book comes out there will be rules for incorporating all the previous two as well in that one.

Veronica: Cool. So, so if you live long enough (Ross: laughing) than you can conceivably take a character all the way through all three levels?

Ross: Oh yes, yes. Absolutely.

Veronica: Very cool.

Ross: Although it's... you probably won't actually be a Space Marine; you'll probably just be hanging out with them, (laughing) in Death Watch.

Veronica & Ron: (Laughing)

Ron: Right.

Veronica: Standing behind them...

Ross: Well they need, you know, they need help and support too. So...

Veronica: very/way (?) cool. So what's coming up next for Dark Heresy?

Ross: I'm glad you asked. We just received a shipment of Disciples of the Dark Gods at Fantasy Flight which is the newest book and it's getting sent out to distributors like right away.

Veronica; Ron is over here doing a 'Happy Yes Dance' So--

Ross: --Very, very soon, very very soon on YOUR shelves Ron, very very soon you will see Disciples of the Dark Gods.

Ron: Awesome.

Ross: And in my opinion that's a great book, I know I'm very biased, so I, full disclosure here. Yes I'm biased in my opinion but-- (Veronica laughs) having been a gamer for a really long time I was, I was impressed by the content in this book it reminds me, very favourably, reminds me of the Delta Green Countdown book--

Ron: --Nice.

Ross: It’s a collection of conspiracies, cults, and secrets in the Calixis Sector. All these sort of organisations that a Game Master can use for the Acolytes, the Dark Heresy Acolytes to investigate. To destroy, to oppose, to threaten. And there's even a section in there for kind of a most wanted heretics of the C- of the sector, which is one of my personal favourites. Its got some really amazing cool bad guys in there and you can just flip to the page, even better its got this just fantastic artwork by Andrea Uderzo, you can turn to the page and show them here's, here's the guy you're looking for.

Veronica: Very, very cool.

Ron: It sounds like some good stuff there.

===================================

If I mis-transcribed anything sorry. I unlike Space Marines am only human.

You are telling me your acolytes stay within mission parameters? The essence of a living milieu is the players having the impression of being able to wander off the beaten path at will, instead of being fed back into the moebius strip of my plot... I will be mightily impressed if Ross and the team can convey playing as a space marine as anything other than a linear event.

By the way- nice one. Stopped me wondering when DotDG was coming out for 5 whole minutes...

Now that is comedy!

Jackal_Strain said:

Well, does that not mean they are really easy to play? If you get everything, ambitions, motivation and personality within the package should it not be easier to play? If someone says: Hey, I don't want to play anything complicated just your generic space marine and blow stuff into oblivion. Is that not a very easy character to play? You just have to scream a couple of lines attached to death, glory and the emperor when in combat and grunt other more controlled oneliners when in a social context. How hard can it be? Feelings are the hardest things to play in a belivable way, and not get embarresed in the process and if they are robots there are no feelings. Space Marines are the most easiest characters to play. It is like playing a Paladin or crusader and that don't seem to be any problems.