Create a different thread for this "setting up an RPG campaign" stuff. Not because I'm playing Moderator Magistrate, but because I want to participate in this discussion and I think it deserves it's own thread .

Sadly the forums here have no board for the L5R RPG stuff... but I guess FFG don't want us to talk for years about 4th edition while they decide how to approach the L5R RPG.

We could always do a makeshift tag system put [RPG] in the title or something?

I *think* it's okay to post RPG threads in this forum? One of things that help keep the hype (and in turn, keep the community glued together) are often RPG talks, because there is always someone playing a game, looking for ideas, or wanting to share his homebrew.

Well, they've said that FFG doesn't come to their own forums, so as long as we aren't overtly breaking TOS or being obnoxious, how could it hurt? Worst case scenario is that someone comes in and tells us we can't talk about it. That'd be interesting.

I *think* it's okay to post RPG threads in this forum? One of things that help keep the hype (and in turn, keep the community glued together) are often RPG talks, because there is always someone playing a game, looking for ideas, or wanting to share his homebrew.

Well, they've said that FFG doesn't come to their own forums, so as long as we aren't overtly breaking TOS or being obnoxious, how could it hurt? Worst case scenario is that someone comes in and tells us we can't talk about it. That'd be interesting.

This is pretty much what I was going to say. I mean, X-Wing even has an off-topic subforum with topics ranging from other Star Wars games to music you like to Games Workshop stuff to video games. Considering an L5R RPG thread would be moderately on topic in this forum, I would definitely go ahead and start one without a worry.

I would have loved to play during Lotus Edition's hay day just for how ridiculous it was.

Ironically one of my favorite ever strongholds was during Lotus: City of Lies. It was bizarre and quirky, but not at all overpowered in and of itself, and completely eclipsed by the Soshi ninja box. It's just the only stronghold that encapsulated exactly my preferred playstyle (military with political support) though the parajimbos came close.

My 2 Cents.

Back to Second Day of Thunder?
Nope. Seriously, there's so much water under that bridge, I'd have trouble finding a troll to live there.
There's so many opinions of those days that it'll just end up scaring away half the new players attracted to the game with colour-coded samurai.
Just imagine some kid getting a lecture by a grognard about why Hida Kisada did the right thing in the ORIGINAL Clan War.

Soft Reboot like NuWho?
Hells to the yes. Jump twenty years into the future, maybe even a hundred, clear the slate and allow the players to make some fresh memories.

Story?
I admire Disney for doing what they did. I strongly object to doing that to L5R. Here's why:
Mostly it is due to the fact that the Killing of the Expanded Universe was announced as soon as there was announced there would be new movies. In other words, they ripped the band-aid off with a swift stroke.
FFG has already given "hope" to the fans that their efforts wouldn't be in vain, and to do it now would seriously damage their creditability with the L5R brand.
I can understand why there would be a limiting factor when dealing with story in a LCG, but I cannot say how sad I would be if they straight up cut away the thing that made L5R unique among card games. The interactivity of story.
Of course, the foundation has to be freaking solid, so the game should be mechanically sound enough for the players to enjoy just playing the game for what it is.
I doubt the two are mutually exclusive, and a reduction in the game value of named personalities might be a smart move.
Player influence should still be a high part, but the naming of carded personalities might be a more high valued prize. I can think of options to do so, but as I'm on the wrong side of the earth to pitch game ideas to FFG, I'll keep them for another chance to use them.

I'd be happy with a soft reboot personally. I was a big fan of the idea of leaping forward about twenty years to find an empire contested by a Hantei, an Iweko, and an upstart Toturi claimant, with maybe Otomo Suikihime acting as a wild card from the Colonies.

FFG has already given "hope" to the fans that their efforts wouldn't be in vain, and to do it now would seriously damage their creditability with the L5R brand.

I keep seeing references to this, but the meat is scant on the ground. Aside from a passing reference to "Rokugan and the Colonies", which reveals nothing but an intent to retain the Colonies in some form or another, where is this assurance that somehow all will continue as it was story-wise?

FFG has already given "hope" to the fans that their efforts wouldn't be in vain, and to do it now would seriously damage their creditability with the L5R brand.

I keep seeing references to this, but the meat is scant on the ground. Aside from a passing reference to "Rokugan and the Colonies", which reveals nothing but an intent to retain the Colonies in some form or another, where is this assurance that somehow all will continue as it was story-wise?

no matter what, I'm pretty sure a hard reboot to Clan wars won't contain Colonies.

That will just change out the setting majorly.

I'd be happy with a soft reboot personally. I was a big fan of the idea of leaping forward about twenty years to find an empire contested by a Hantei, an Iweko, and an upstart Toturi claimant, with maybe Otomo Suikihime acting as a wild card from the Colonies.

As much as I would love to see this happen on some level? I doubt that it would be a good way to bring people into the game.

The story at the start of the LCG has to be coming from a place of stability into a position of instability. I would probably put it 20 years into the reign of Iweko II, after Iweko I has disappeared / returned to Heaven, what not. Kanpeki and the Daigotsu have vanished. The Unicorn vs Phoenix, Lion vs Scorpion wars have resolved. The Susumu have been folded into the Imperial families. Iweko Seiken has proven to be an honorable but unpredictable ruler, and his move to dismantle the Imperial Bureaucracy has led to the dismantling of ALL parts of the bureaucracy. Each Great Clan is effectively a kingdom unto themselves, without any central authority to keep them in check. And then all the old rivalries come out, and the Emperor is unable to stop the brewing wars.

And then, at the first deluxe Expansion, bring back Kanpeki's Horde.

I'd be happy with a soft reboot personally. I was a big fan of the idea of leaping forward about twenty years to find an empire contested by a Hantei, an Iweko, and an upstart Toturi claimant, with maybe Otomo Suikihime acting as a wild card from the Colonies.

As much as I would love to see this happen on some level? I doubt that it would be a good way to bring people into the game.

The story at the start of the LCG has to be coming from a place of stability into a position of instability. I would probably put it 20 years into the reign of Iweko II, after Iweko I has disappeared / returned to Heaven, what not. Kanpeki and the Daigotsu have vanished. The Unicorn vs Phoenix, Lion vs Scorpion wars have resolved. The Susumu have been folded into the Imperial families. Iweko Seiken has proven to be an honorable but unpredictable ruler, and his move to dismantle the Imperial Bureaucracy has led to the dismantling of ALL parts of the bureaucracy. Each Great Clan is effectively a kingdom unto themselves, without any central authority to keep them in check. And then all the old rivalries come out, and the Emperor is unable to stop the brewing wars.

And then, at the first deluxe Expansion, bring back Kanpeki's Horde.

That's probably better than the outright "Jigoku takes over" storyline they were about to run with at AEG.

Sorry but as a Spider player I want to have my time in the sunshine to so I would be a bit disapointed when they would not make the Onyx Empire happen. Acutally it is a chance for a greta reboot without a reboot cause when it finaly ends all of the former structure needs a rebuild and you can get jucy clan conflictzs out of it. Letting things just vanish is something I really dislike cause it has a very bad redcon taste for me.

I'd be happy with a soft reboot personally. I was a big fan of the idea of leaping forward about twenty years to find an empire contested by a Hantei, an Iweko, and an upstart Toturi claimant, with maybe Otomo Suikihime acting as a wild card from the Colonies.

As much as I would love to see this happen on some level? I doubt that it would be a good way to bring people into the game.

The story at the start of the LCG has to be coming from a place of stability into a position of instability. I would probably put it 20 years into the reign of Iweko II, after Iweko I has disappeared / returned to Heaven, what not. Kanpeki and the Daigotsu have vanished. The Unicorn vs Phoenix, Lion vs Scorpion wars have resolved. The Susumu have been folded into the Imperial families. Iweko Seiken has proven to be an honorable but unpredictable ruler, and his move to dismantle the Imperial Bureaucracy has led to the dismantling of ALL parts of the bureaucracy. Each Great Clan is effectively a kingdom unto themselves, without any central authority to keep them in check. And then all the old rivalries come out, and the Emperor is unable to stop the brewing wars.

And then, at the first deluxe Expansion, bring back Kanpeki's Horde.

This would actually be a pretry good launching off point.

Sorry but as a Spider player I want to have my time in the sunshine to so I would be a bit disapointed when they would not make the Onyx Empire happen. Acutally it is a chance for a greta reboot without a reboot cause when it finaly ends all of the former structure needs a rebuild and you can get jucy clan conflictzs out of it. Letting things just vanish is something I really dislike cause it has a very bad redcon taste for me.

As a fellow Spider player, I understand that feeling, which is why I want them to make a SPLASH when they return. Have Kanpeki show up at the front of an army of undead, demons, and Lost, and call out Seiken for failing as an Emperor. Have all the Great Clans too embroiled in their own wars to be able to pull back to fight the initial assault. And make the end of the big two year arc be the decision to A) back the failing Iweko dynasty as a spiritual figurehead with no actual power, B) back the Tainted Hantei dynasty, and surrender Rokugan to Jigoku, or C) overthrow both of them, and place Rokugan into a full Warring States period without any central authority.

Sorry but as a Spider player I want to have my time in the sunshine to so I would be a bit disapointed when they would not make the Onyx Empire happen. Acutally it is a chance for a greta reboot without a reboot cause when it finaly ends all of the former structure needs a rebuild and you can get jucy clan conflictzs out of it. Letting things just vanish is something I really dislike cause it has a very bad redcon taste for me.

I thought Celestial was the Spider's time in the spotlight? No other clan has ever gotten the spotlight the way the Spider did in the Destroyer War. The Spider taking over and ruling a dark version of Rokugan would be a terrible introductory time period for new players.

Sorry but as a Spider player I want to have my time in the sunshine to so I would be a bit disapointed when they would not make the Onyx Empire happen. Acutally it is a chance for a greta reboot without a reboot cause when it finaly ends all of the former structure needs a rebuild and you can get jucy clan conflictzs out of it. Letting things just vanish is something I really dislike cause it has a very bad redcon taste for me.

I thought Celestial was the Spider's time in the spotlight? No other clan has ever gotten the spotlight the way the Spider did in the Destroyer War. The Spider taking over and ruling a dark version of Rokugan would be a terrible introductory time period for new players.

Why? Look at Star wars, that is basically how people got introduced to that setting almost fourty years ago. So, what is the issue?

Sorry but as a Spider player I want to have my time in the sunshine to so I would be a bit disapointed when they would not make the Onyx Empire happen. Acutally it is a chance for a greta reboot without a reboot cause when it finaly ends all of the former structure needs a rebuild and you can get jucy clan conflictzs out of it. Letting things just vanish is something I really dislike cause it has a very bad redcon taste for me.

I thought Celestial was the Spider's time in the spotlight? No other clan has ever gotten the spotlight the way the Spider did in the Destroyer War. The Spider taking over and ruling a dark version of Rokugan would be a terrible introductory time period for new players.

Yeah, rebelling against your dark lord being the core intro storyline is a total disservice to the game.

People that want Mystic Samurai struggling for control of a Fantasy Empire (which is the core of the game) will be turned off. People who buy in *because* of the dark overlord elements will be the victims of a bait and switch when things get back to normal.

It's lose-lose. Overall game success trumps clan success here.

Sorry but as a Spider player I want to have my time in the sunshine to so I would be a bit disapointed when they would not make the Onyx Empire happen. Acutally it is a chance for a greta reboot without a reboot cause when it finaly ends all of the former structure needs a rebuild and you can get jucy clan conflictzs out of it. Letting things just vanish is something I really dislike cause it has a very bad redcon taste for me.

I thought Celestial was the Spider's time in the spotlight? No other clan has ever gotten the spotlight the way the Spider did in the Destroyer War. The Spider taking over and ruling a dark version of Rokugan would be a terrible introductory time period for new players.

Why? Look at Star wars, that is basically how people got introduced to that setting almost fourty years ago. So, what is the issue?

Because it's a poor representation for what Rokugan has been for the bulk of its history. As you said Star Wars began that way. If Legend of the Five Rings were about living under the tyranny of a Dark Empire then sure it'd be fine, but Legend of the Five Rings isn't about that. It's about a place where "Honor is more powerful than Steel" and new players should experience that.

Why? Look at Star wars, that is basically how people got introduced to that setting almost fourty years ago. So, what is the issue?

The good vs. evil dichotomy and fighting against the dark side is one of the core elements of the setting, whatever their relevant positions of power. It's entirely oriented around light vs. dark, whether Jedi vs. Sith or Rebellion/Republic vs. Empire.

L5R is much less concerned with good and evil as core conflict, which is how the game accommodates the competing interests of 7/8/9/whatever great clans.

Actually L5r is a botu a bunc of people which going to mentaly break when trying to live up to the contradicting ideals their code of honor is bestowing on them. I don´t think celestial was the Spiders light in the Sun. The Onyx was planned to be this. I support the Star Wars approach. Lets forget the old Rukgan and go for a new Start in a new Era. Therefore the Onyx is the best way to go cause it gives the opportunity to get fresh air in an old setting.

Also nobody should try to decide for other what they should know or how they would react to things which actually didn´t happen. If you not did a representative survey in any kind bout this please don´t use these arguments.

What rokugan is for you doe not have to be the same what Rokugan is for a other player and I for my part like the honor struggle in conection with Wuxia and Samurai Drama the most but I also like the long awaited take over of the people with the far more realistic approach to themself.

Why? Look at Star wars, that is basically how people got introduced to that setting almost fourty years ago. So, what is the issue?

The good vs. evil dichotomy and fighting against the dark side is one of the core elements of the setting, whatever their relevant positions of power. It's entirely oriented around light vs. dark, whether Jedi vs. Sith or Rebellion/Republic vs. Empire.

L5R is much less concerned with good and evil as core conflict, which is how the game accommodates the competing interests of 7/8/9/whatever great clans.

And I think you can have that with or without a questionable person on the throne, actually look at the history of L5R, the Clan War which is so beloved by many that they want to reset the satting to that time basically had the same premise, a questionable emperor. So, L5R can tottally work that way. They don't have to frame it as a good vs evil conflict

Instead of going full Onyx Empire, make it so spiritual imbalance of whatever happened caused great disturbances in the force and while nothing like Kanpeki single handely ruling Empire happened, Imperial authority was undermined, lot of bad stuff happened, and we are in rebuilding period where Clans are again trying their best to ensure their place in pecking order. Not necessarily "race for the Throne", but "I really want this land and if I have to, I'll figure out how to weasel my way out of Emperor's orders later".

Warring States are always good for this kind of game.

Warring states are actually what is best for the Game. I just was so happy that ffinaly the Spider can take over that I would be dissapointed if this is not going to happen. I mean hey it also worked for Warhammer Fanatsy in fiction. Ok the result was pretty bad cause Aeg of Sigmar is aweful but the fiction was great.

Teveshszat, on 16 Sept 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

Actually L5r is a botu a bunc of people which going to mentaly break when trying to live up to the contradicting ideals their code of honor is bestowing on them.

This is not what the card game is "about." This is also not how FFG is going to pitch the card game, I can pretty much guarantee.

It is an *element* of the card game. It's one small piece of the puzzle.

The scope of the card game is much bigger. "Does my Samurai's ideals break him?" Is like, one action in the game (Suppuku or honor loss, you decide!). If someone's even playing the cards that will prompt it, which isn't the case in every game.

And I think you can have that with or without a questionable person on the throne, actually look at the history of L5R, the Clan War which is so beloved by many that they want to reset the satting to that time basically had the same premise, a questionable emperor. So, L5R can tottally work that way. They don't have to frame it as a good vs evil conflict

The Clan War is very different from what I understand Onyx Edition was going to be. I mean, maybe I have something wrong, but the Clan War was basically the Crab rebelling, everyone else going "Whatsa matta for you, Crab?", and the Emperor's corruption being revealed much later. But the story assumption going in is that the emperor is the true light of heaven, never wrong, spoke ex cathedra, and all that. That he's been corrupted (or possessed or whatever the details were) was a big reveal, right?

By contrast, I understand Onyx to be much more, 1000 years of darkness, Emperor explicitly evil and everyone pretty much knows it, etc. Much more like Star Wars, actually, where even a cursory glance at the Empire makes one go, "Yep, bad guys." Right?

Those are two very different things.

Actually L5r is a botu a bunc of people which going to mentaly break when trying to live up to the contradicting ideals their code of honor is bestowing on them. I don´t think celestial was the Spiders light in the Sun. The Onyx was planned to be this. I support the Star Wars approach. Lets forget the old Rukgan and go for a new Start in a new Era. Therefore the Onyx is the best way to go cause it gives the opportunity to get fresh air in an old setting.

Also nobody should try to decide for other what they should know or how they would react to things which actually didn´t happen. If you not did a representative survey in any kind bout this please don´t use these arguments.

What rokugan is for you doe not have to be the same what Rokugan is for a other player and I for my part like the honor struggle in conection with Wuxia and Samurai Drama the most but I also like the long awaited take over of the people with the far more realistic approach to themself.

If no one should try and tell other people what they believe to be the core of what l5r is, you just invalidated the majority of your own post. Ultimately, it's not about what you want best. Or what I want. It's what's about what's best for the health and survival of the setting as a whole. People will disagree on what that is, and some may actually believe chisaii or zombie chitik was a great idea. Only FFG gets to make that call now.