In Dark Heresy 2 psychic powers were nerfed. There is sth I call "fluid power level". Sanctioned psyker can choose psychic rating with which he wants to use a power from 1 up to his PR+2 (the number is PR+5 for unsanctioned psykers). If chosen PR is equal or lower than his base PR, phenomenons occur on doubles. If it is higher, they occur on everything but the doubles.

Additionally, for every PR below his base PR, he gets +10 to WP for that psychic power roll and for every PR above his PR he gets -10.

On DH2 page the author wrote that they received many messages that psykers were overpowered in DH, RT and Only War. Unfortunately, I have to agree. What are your thoughts? Would you use that new mechanic on your Only War sessions?

In Dark Heresy 2 psychic powers were nerfed. There is sth I call "fluid power level". Sanctioned psyker can choose psychic rating with which he wants to use a power from 1 up to his PR+2 (the number is PR+5 for unsanctioned psykers). If chosen PR is equal or lower than his base PR, phenomenons occur on doubles. If it is higher, they occur on everything but the doubles.

Additionally, for every PR below his base PR, he gets +10 to WP for that psychic power roll and for every PR above his PR he gets -10.

On DH2 page the author wrote that they received many messages that psykers were overpowered in DH, RT and Only War. Unfortunately, I have to agree. What are your thoughts? Would you use that new mechanic on your Only War sessions?

Pyskers are not to strong, Most Gms fail to Increase challenges to players. APCs, and Tanks are a challenge to even the most experienced group assuming they do not have armored support. They are supposed to be powerful and very dangerous as are snipers. There are very simple ways to "Nerf" psykers using the rules provided with out additional confusion to game mechanics.

I find in a lot of the Gamesworkshop derived RPGs (including fantasy) balance is brought by RP. People hate psykers and psykers are most lightly to corrupt the rest of the PCs thus annoying other players, so RP is not generally an issue. In combat they weild a lot of power and thus will draw a lot of enemy attention and they don't generally have the stats or gear in order to deal with such attention.

In general I'd ensure that all players are OK with it before I'll allow anyone to play any Specialists. Even then I'd give the talk about what the psyker and commissar can and will get away with.

IMo, you missed the biggest nerf: the change of powers.

If you look at the new way psykers have to choose powers, you'll notice that the powers themselves aren't as good and that the "tree" system makes that best ones even harder to get to!

that's a change that I'd certainly use, along with the loss of "Fettered" powers.

However it must be said that psykers aren't the most broken thing in Only War - that honour would belong to Black Crusade

However it must be said that psykers aren't the most broken thing in Only War - that honour would belong to Black Crusade

Chaos Sorcery is OP as ****.

OTOH the Collar of Khorne exists, so YMMV.

I find in a lot of the Gamesworkshop derived RPGs (including fantasy) balance is brought by RP. People hate psykers and psykers are most lightly to corrupt the rest of the PCs thus annoying other players, so RP is not generally an issue. In combat they weild a lot of power and thus will draw a lot of enemy attention and they don't generally have the stats or gear in order to deal with such attention.

Well that's just arbitrary and depends on MG. There's no rule in a rulebook that says that NPC's have to be harsh for psykers.

IMo, you missed the biggest nerf: the change of powers.

If you look at the new way psykers have to choose powers, you'll notice that the powers themselves aren't as good and that the "tree" system makes that best ones even harder to get to!

that's a change that I'd certainly use, along with the loss of "Fettered" powers.

However it must be said that psykers aren't the most broken thing in Only War - that honour would belong to Black Crusade

I havent played or lead BC. I havent found people as crazy as me to try yet

No mechanical rule, correct. However, if you read the blurb beside the specialty it makes it clear that they are universally hated. That sentiment is reflected in every 40K source-book from an imperial perspective since 2nd ed.

Then again if you don't want my GM advice for balancing out your game for you, I can just shut up.

Their presence is also extremely hard to justify in a squad of regular guardsmen, especially on a permanent basis. At my table, there is a house rule that the Support Specialties (Psyker, Commissar, Ratling, Ogryn, Storm Trooper, Tech Priest) aren't allowed period. From a fluff perspective, they don't really make sense in a game about playing Imperial Guardsmen - especially so in ours.

In-game they're often lended out to squads to provide additional firepower or cheat with divination, though assigning them on a permanent basis is a little weird.

OTOH everyone could just play Psykers and the party would be one of those psyker combat squads.

cpteveros, those support specialties make perfect sense in the context of the game. If they're not for your table, that's fine, but making judgments about the game as a whole should come with some reasoning as opposed to an unsupported statement.

In-game they're often lended out to squads to provide additional firepower or cheat with divination, though assigning them on a permanent basis is a little weird.

OTOH everyone could just play Psykers and the party would be one of those psyker combat squads.

Psyker combat squads?

I like the way you think

cpteveros, those support specialties make perfect sense in the context of the game. If they're not for your table, that's fine, but making judgments about the game as a whole should come with some reasoning as opposed to an unsupported statement.

It is a subject that has been debated back and forth a million times on this forum, so I thought the reasoning was clear. If not, I will say it here:

The kinds of characters portrayed by Support Specialties are part of the Imperial Guard and make sense in the context of a regiment - like, say, in the table top. Where it is a stretch to justify is in this game, when the focus is ostensibly on the run-of-the-mill, average, grunt. The Support Specialties make sense when part of a Command Squad, a drop-in character for an important mission, or something similar. It becomes hard to justify one of the regiment's few Commissars spending all his time with one particular squad of siege infantry, or a single Ogryn attached to a squad of drop troops.

The lore and fluff about the Imperial Guard give pretty cut and dry when it comes to what different ranks/positions do - it is a military, after all. A Tech-Priest attached to a specific squad of Rough Riders for the entirety of a campaign requires some gymnastics when it comes to why he would be there, and engineering situations to put him in a position that would run counter to what Tech-Priests are expected to do in a unit of Imperial Guard.

I see why the developers put the Support Specialties in the game - each is an iconic part of the Imperial Guard and are roles that many would recognize from the novels or TT. There is just some disconnect in that the game is written about a regular squad of guardsmen, but then gives the option to play a highly irregular group with little reason why that would be.

It would be like having an entire unit of regular infantry in the American Army, but then one squad just happens to consist of a SWAT team officer, a civilian chaplain, the sergeant, the battalion's morale officer, and an adviser attached to the Colonel's headquarters.

Ok so why don't you show us now the reasoning behind aliens growing out of mushrooms and painting their rides red to go faster (and they do)?

Ok so why don't you show us now the reasoning behind aliens growing out of mushrooms and painting their rides red to go faster (and they do)?

Xenos don't have to make sense (trying to comprehend them is heresy, after all ) but when it comes to a human organization (and a military one, at that) I like it to at least maintain some semblance of realistic structure. Even though 40k is Grimdark and far removed from our current day, it has it's own internal consistency - that's what I like to see followed.

Orks sprout like mushrooms, their vehicles are faster if red - those are things that are a part of the setting and while don't make sense in the real world, they are respected facts in 40k. Why should the composition of the Imperial Guard be any different?

Ok so why don't you show us now the reasoning behind aliens growing out of mushrooms and painting their rides red to go faster (and they do)?

The Old Ones' genetic engineering.

Directly created the Orks (or, well, the Krork) as they are, and thus both responsible for their reproduction and the WAAAAGH! field functioning as it does.

What are you talking about red things DO go faster in the real world!

Also every mushroom is a potential alien killing machine!

What are you talking about red things DO go faster in the real world!

Also every mushroom is a potential alien killing machine!

They're also often delicious. Somehow I don't think orks taste good. If they do, OTOH, the solution for the galaxy-wide infestation is obviously finding whichever worlds were settled by Italians from old Terra and creating ork-eating warbands of them.

It would give an all new importance to the use of flamers. Sauteed Ork, anyone?

To be a bit of a buzzkill here, given how singularly hardy orks (and ork spores in particular) are, that would probably end with ork fungal material growing in your guts.

Not a fun way to go.

on the topic of Orc Meat in 40k: http://www.servantsoftheimperium.com/comic.php?comicid=187

and then on the DH1 we had this https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/93743-ork-meat/

Ok a bit of thread necromancy.

Going back to the topic, psykers are very powerfull, that is true but as PhilOfCalth noticed, they are rarely equiped to deal with ammount of attention they get from being so strong, in a heat of battle an enemy will more likely focus on shooting, stabing, hacking and in any other way disposing of an enemy that can summon fireballs and other unnatural (yes even in W40k) powers, than on the average guardsman, even if he is equiped with plasma gun or lascannon, they probably seen the plasma or powerfull laser in action many times already and in comparison it becomes mundane to them. Also, what most people forget is that psyniscience skill is not a specialist skill and can be used untrained, everyone can "feel" that something is wrong the psyker uses his powers, and some of them can even pinpoint who and where he is. And no "feeling" such things is not unsanctioned, it's just a gut feeling and/or good intuition.

On the RAW, psyker powers are awesome and often over the top, but if used fattered they rarely have the "UMPF factor" of a equal level guardsman skills while still drawing attention, while being used fattered or pushed, they pose a serious danger to everyone including the squad itself and most of all the psyker himself.

Going back to the fluff and narration, psykers in whole of the W40k universe are feared and/or hated, and for good reason, they are most vulnerable to chaos and very unpredictable. Short story time: in one of scenerios I played our psyker FUBAR-ed and by the perils of the warp summoned a deamon, GM was so happy with the turn of events that he even forgone giving us the real boss of the scenerio, since the warp creature was enough. We almost lost a tank (hellhound), half to it being slashed open and other half to it almost being possesed. Most of the squad had been incapacitated on the verge of death, and I, as a sergant, had to execute the psyker (we had no time to wait for the commisar, and we were to afraid), unfortunately my character had a soft spot for her and just let her go pretending to have executed her, it was a huge mistake in a long run but that's a different story.

So all in all, yes psykers are very powerfull but at the great cost.

As for the rest of the specialists, with a good story you can justify everything, and I mean EVERYTHING.

Techpriest in a feral world warrior regiment? no problem, he can be a missionar kind trying to teach savages about the technology, or the missions they are send on sometimes need someone to operate the equipment found on site, make it that they are his squad, his guard, and not that he is added to them, that is a good reason why they are always in the same squad.

Munitorium priest? this is W40k and those priests are far from regular civilian priests, they can be found on the forefront of most of the battles, spreading the glory of the God Emperor and putting flame of inspiration to every guardsman heart. Why is he always with the same squad? Cause he knows greatness in them and knows that with them he can achieve greate victories for the Emperor, or he feels that this squad in particular needs help and teachings of the Emperor since their faith is not as strong as it should be. In the downtime he might be visiting other platoons or even regiments. Maybe the very Emperor showed him he needs to stick with them (at least that's what he belives), or he just simply like this specyfic band of misfits, and nothing more.

And many many more, give me a regiment and a specialist and with a bit of story I can fit everyone everywhere. Sure it gets harder as more specialists are added, so I'd say a 50/50 balance of guardsman/specialists is a healthy ratio, with odd number player groups having guardsman>specialists, but in the resonable amount I don't see why not.

Short story time: in one of scenerios I played our psyker FUBAR-ed and by the perils of the warp summoned a deamon, GM was so happy with the turn of events that he even forgone giving us the real boss of the scenerio, since the warp creature was enough. We almost lost a tank (hellhound), half to it being slashed open and other half to it almost being possesed. Most of the squad had been incapacitated on the verge of death, and I, as a sergant, had to execute the psyker (we had no time to wait for the commisar, and we were to afraid), unfortunately my character had a soft spot for her and just let her go pretending to have executed her, it was a huge mistake in a long run but that's a different story.

So all in all, yes psykers are very powerfull but at the great cost.

What were the odds? Once I calculated that there is 40 times bigger risk of death from being consequently wounded by overheating plasma gun, than by using psychic powers (caused by instant deaths, impossible daemon encounters, mutation, everything). Yes, there are tables in RB with those terrible perils of warp, but the chance of them to appear is very low.

Mere guardsmen shooting the plasma gun is in greater risk than psyker reaching to the warp... That's just ridiculous.

Sure, but the plasma will "just" kill you, and that harmless psyker has a chance, no matter how small, to send your soul flying to be grabbed by the demons of chaos to be tortured for all eternity, and not be able to bask in a glory of the light of the Emperor. Remember, think like a indoctrinated citizen of human Imperium, and not as a player who know all of this is just a game and demons aren't real and chance of psyker doing those whings is only on doubles. Oh and it's sure to happen if he "pushes" the power.

Lol, it's not. Dude, chances for this specific peril of the warp to happen are astronomically small.

And you're wrong about the lore too. All human souls go to the warp after death. There is no salvation in the Emperor. Only the Eldar have ways to avoid such fate by using soulstones.

But besides that, what influence does it have on gameplay? None. For almost every player killed character is killed. Psykers have smaller chance of being killed than regular guardsmen - that's a fact.

Right and that is what every priest tells the guardsman, that's why they are so eagerly fight for the Emperor. Think for a moment. Most of the empire know that after death they will be able to sit in the light of the eternal Emperor. They also have very real evidence that psykers, witches and other like them tend to do the unnatural and summon demons, by mistake or otherwise.

You say the chance is very small, but there is a chance and it is enough. Let's even do some simple math, with unfattered power your chances to summon something bad are: 10% (11, 22, 33, 44, 55, 66, 77, 88, 99, 100) it means that roughly every 10-th power will have additional effect of the phenomena, with 1 in 4 being perils of the warp, that is not much with a single psyker in a simple scenerio where he will use his powers 7-10 times in total. But imagine that there are couple of psykers on a battlefield, fighting for hours of battle, let's say 10 psykers fighting for some time, statystically every time all of them use their powers one should cause a psychic phenomena, and every 4-th time that happens it will be perils of the warp.

So the chances are that in those couple of hours some squads/platoons will experience some lesser or more severe influence of the warp, and one or two will probably be anihilated by a random summoned demon.

Sure, there is a small chance for a specyfic peril to appear, for the "Grand Possesion" with the big bad deamon it's 0,25% chance with every power, but would you install a small nuclear reactor in your house to get all the power you will ever need and even sell it for good money if it had 0,25% chance per day (not cumulative) that it will explode in a small termonuclear explosion? (and don't be a smartass and say you would and find a thousands of ways to avoid it, since that's not the point), nobody would, sure all the power but 0,25% is only 1 in 400 so in a bit more than a year it's almost certain to happen.

Also, Psykers are fastest to amass corruption points, that's why many of them are mutated by this corruption, and most normal Imperium citizens hate mutants and any signs of chaos or heresy.

If you are still not sure if psykers are generally seen as dangerous and feared read the flavor text next to the class in the OW core rulebook, and visit wikia.

As for being killed on a battlefield, sure, they have powers that can stop bullets and other ways to make it thru the day on a battlefield, but if you play with the lore, they are as likely to get shot at by their own fellow guardsman as they are by the enemy, even more if there is a commisar nearby, unless you don't belive in lore and role-playing in role playing games.

And yes, in a battle, I myself would rather shoot the guy summoning lightnings with his mind than a guy with a machinegun, at least I can imagine what the machinegun will do to me.

You're also a lot more likely to survive getting shot at by that machine gunner than you are having a psyker throwing powers at you. After all, you know taking cover will protect you from the machine gun - cover might not do anything to protect you from the psyker.

Rule 1) Shoot the Mage(s)* first.

*This translates to Psykers and Tech-priests in the 40k verse, with Psykers nearly always taking priority over the tech-priest.

Rule 2) Shoot the mundane officers next.

Rule 3) Shoot the mundane grunts in descending order of threat.

Note: There is some debate as to whether to shoot the officers first because the men will fall apart without them, or ignore the officers because the men do all the real work of fighting. That's a paraphrase, mind, but it gets the gist across, I think.

"When in doubt, go for the Mage(s)."

This translates to "kill the enemy psykers first".