It's bothered me for a bit that ethereal attacks by spirits etc. that can walk through walls ignore the Def value of armour but not Soak. If the spirit reaches through your armour, it reaches through your armour.

That requires taking lack of armour soak into account when factoring damage to avoid attacks being too deadly.

Does this attack for spirits and ghosts make sense then:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x6bacfrwe863klt/Ghostly-Touch-Back-Face.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6elhnkko64y20lm/Ghostly-Touch-Front-Face.png?dl=0

BTW, I would have had the images appear in post but couldn't figure out getting that to work

I like the idea. But considering characteristics of ethereal creatures (Spirit, Tomb Banshee and Cairn Wraith) the weakest of those (Spirit) have WP 4 and others WP 3, I would house rule Tomb Banshee and Cairn Wraith WP up to 4. At the same time, magical and blessed weapons ignores the additional Soak value from Willpower. Players should be well aware they are fighting something not from this world and killing it would not be easy.

Thanks, assuming a To 3-5 range typical PC the damage is not too significant, I have been pondering adding a Condition on the 2 success line. Ghostly undead should be more about madness etc. than straight up damage - "Shock" to reflect feeling the supernatural can reach into your heart (no stress recovery makes stress more dangerous).

BTW, I like ethereal creatures and in a building etc. they should only be exposed to attacks in "half" the round. They walk out of wall and attack (those acting after may act) that round, then then attack and retreat through wall (only those acting before them may act that round). Cat and mouse, with the howls and other area/ranged attacks as well.

Deathly Presence should have a version useable with WP or a different Stat that Str for some undead, "Ghostly Presence"

I might remove the Terror as many Ethereal creatures have this anyway and switch it out for another condition like freezing, or Weakened as it seems to provide less redundancy.

Have to make sure they are not too powerful, since they can only be harmed by magic. Magic is quite rare in a party.

Condition, stress/fatigue, or a limited wounds be best; since no armour save, you could get a case of so many wounds it cause an death in two hits.

Also have the ghost limited to an area, unless under the direct control of a necromancer. So aren't chasing you hundreds of miles. Maybe being Ethereal (half our realm, half death) causes over time a weakness in the energy keeping it there, unless another force is the cause.

Fear and terror are fine, as they are one off things.

Just running ideas. The higher end Ethereal, wraiths would of course be much more deadly, being as they are the spirits of wizards.

Agreed though with the more heroic leaning 3rd Edition takes I feel that being Ethereal is far less of a factor than it would have been in 2nd edition, though I do agree Ghosts and Spirits should be bound to locations, possibly Banshees as well. Wraiths are more far more free roaming as far as I believe and as for Hexwraiths with some rewritten lore (As currently it literally makes no sense) these could be really cool Ethereal Bounty Hunters though they'd need various Bale fire Actions and Aura in addition to chilling, weakening touch attacks or Banshee Screams. Other options include semi Solid Wisp Wraiths that are only partially Ethereal and Animated Armour or Weapons that's possessed by a angry to bound spirit, these help keep Ethereal creatures more tangible while keeping the theme.

These a huge amount that can be done with Ethereal's especially if looking for a real horror session or two though the art of pulling such off effectively is pretty hard and generally requires a less is more stance for the horror elements. Non standard solutions outside of combat are also fun to look at with Ethereal creatures from finding what's tethering them to the material plain to creating herbal wards and protections with stuff like Daemons Root, Witch Bane, Holy Symbols, being able to see them and trap them inside Mirrors for example. Ritual of Banishment can be performed but like a exorcism for Daemons if such can be obtained or a ally with such knowledge could be found (Agents of the Shroud, Morr Priest Hood, Black Guards, Knights Raven, Dream Walkers, Amethyst Wizards - especially Magister vigilante's, Vampire Hunters, Grave Wardens, Seers, Mystics, etc).

A final interesting idea depending on when your stories are set is to have the Nagash having risen but the bad (poor narrative, and poor resolution) aspects of the End times kept on hold so all Amethyst Wizards are slowly becoming Wraiths losing there material bodies its a minor thing but could be cool if used right. Anyway like the poster above I'm just expanding on the idea's and themes that Ethereal entities bring to our games as I love Undeath and Necromancy it's possibly the area of the setting I'm most drawn to, though I'd say its Magic in general with a preference to Necromancy though I like the Divine sides and aspects as well.

Thanks for all the input, so a more "condition festival" sort of approach is the idea - I did ponder that - considering (then deciding it was too complicated) to have a random one picked each time among things like Weakened, Cowed, Rattled, Freezing, Shock.

I intentionally selected Terror because a "one time Fear or Terror" on meeting the undead is fine but isn't itself creating any madness. A chance for another significant hit makes sense, Terror as Fatigue from having cold hand on heart makes sense, but a check not automatic loss to let Discipline "have its role".

Easing up on damage completely (hit is 1 Wound, improved hit 2 Wounds) means keeping things like this in order to have the threat of insanity (either death, mutation or insanity need to be "on the table" as a threat in an encounter, in my view)

I'll ponder all the foregoing, and if others want to try their hand at "ethereal attack actions" won't feel at all slighted.

Oh, adding -

Yes I believe Ethereal undead generally are/should be tied to locations (though could be an entire building, section of woodland etc.) or more rarely items, ships etc. Unless you are trapped in the location (always a fun option) running away is the answer brave heroes (of course if it's a ghost in the inn or and a band of beastmen prowling the night outside it...)

So how about change (conservative to start)

one hammer = 1 Wound, 1 Fatigue, 1 Stress (heart touch)

three hammers = 2 Wounds, 2 Fatigue, 2 Stress (stronger heart touch)

Eagle becomes move target's stance one towards neutral (cause heart touch messes with your mojo/cool/whatever)

Comet becomes inflict condition which may vary (choose for each undead creature but keep the same for it, different spirits are different etc.) among Freezing, Shock, Sluggish, Weakened

Oh and remember, ethereal creatures can be harmed by non-magical attacks, they just get the WP-improved soak, which could see damage reduced to minimum. I see their "pop through walls" etc. ability their main "fun thing".

Oh, I would also rule that Critical Wounds don't hurt an ethereal creature unless inflicted by magical or blessed weapon etc. A wraith doesn't get a ruptured spleen.

Also making Chaos Star effect be, instead of "banishing" temporarily, that the undead materializes briefly, losing the Ethereal quality and thus being vulnerable to all forms of attack.