Steerpike said:

I suppose the dice you roll are cooler. When you're playing your elf.

DagobahDave said:

Gotta love nerdrage. Too bad you can't think of anything intelligent to contribute to the discussion. I play humans (when I play) and my game typically includes only humans or dwarves. We do have one player who likes to play an elf, though.

You wouldn't like my games. They require intelligence, good roleplaying, and a sense of story. Based on your comment I think it is fair to assume you lack the intellectual capacity for any of these.

Steerpike said:

His comment isn't nerdrage. I think that he's just pointing out that declaring that the dice are 'lame' is a stupid point without any merit. Dice are dice. The ones in v3 serve a certain purpose that couldn't be achieves as effectively with normal dice.

Steerpike said:

Like any of that contributed to the discussion.

macd21 said:

It's nerdrage or else a severe lack of wit. It's the form of the expression, not the disagreement, that shows it.

DagobahDave said:

Maybe not for someone with your obvious lack of imagination and reading comprehesion. But if you review the post carefully (a chore for someone such as yourself, I admit), you'll see that it is specifically in reference to the video, which is what this thread is about. I gave my opinion on whether the video made me feel better or worse about the new edition. I even went so far, after my take on the dice, to provide a parenthetical asserting the obvious, namely that it was my opinion. This parenthetical was provided to prevent lackwits from getting all agitated over the post. Apparently it failed in your particular case.

So, having seen the video. I have an opinion on the dice.

They are doing things you're already doing, only in your head. You already roll dice and translate the result in your head. Only now, instead of doing that mind translation, the results will actually roll in front of you.

i can understand being mad about them being "special dice" and thinking "what if I lose one?" but you already buy dice. I know you do, because I do. If you don't want to buy their specialized dice you can recreate them with normal d6. Its not like they created a 2.5 sided dice that you can only buy from them.

I also think we'll know more once a mechanic leaks...i've only seen dice, heard a brief description, and seen examples of dice pools. i still don't know what each color represents. it does seem fairly complex with dice coming from 6 or more places. We can assume one is stats, one is going to be fate, and one might be a skill contribution. One might be a gm modification.

So with multiple good results, and multiple fails..the the fails cancel out successes and you have to hope to outweigh them?

The mechanic will be the key...

Oof. It's starting to get nasty in here...

Anyhoo:

Diriel said:

Oh gosh I really hope that this won't be the case.

In WOD, everyone seemed to roll like a BILLION ones )which cancelled out successes on a 1 for 1 basis), and we all HATED that.

I really hope that the bad symbols (skulls, chaos symbol, etc...) just have some supplementary effect which is either outlined on the card (which I think will be the case) or some kind of over all game effect.

Something like: for every Chaos symbol rolled, the party has to discard a Fortune point from their total reserve. Or perhaps if you roll a Chaos symbol, you have to include a misfortune die in your next skill roll. Or something like that.

I sincerely hope that its gonna be as simple as: roll any hammers? You succeed/hit. No hammers (only blanks or other stuff)? You fail/miss.

Thanks for the videos, very useful, I only wish they had been available a week ago. It might have stopped some of the rancour on both sides. I am disappointed that WFRP2 has effectively ended, I only hope that the several hundred pounds worth of books I have for that, will still be usable with the new edition. Having said that, after seeing the videos, the new edition does look very exciting, with one large caveat. I, like a lot of people, am more than a little worried about the limited number of careers on offer, with both the core and adventurers pack. I hope that we are not going to be shoehorned into too few careers. In version2, my group started off with a student, smuggler, protagonist, valet, mercenary and barber surgeon and were able to easily create a reason for them being together. How many of these careers will be available in the new edition? I am also not sure about the High Elf race instead of the Halflings. Having read all the Warhammer Fantasy fiction books, I am a little dubious about how you integrate a Swordmaster of Hoeth with a Ratcatcher into a party, for more than the shortest of adventures, without the Elf being played as a human. That is just a minor quibble, as I was hoping to play a Halfling Field Warden next, I admit.

Necrozius said:

Your interpretation would seem to be closer to what the system is going to be like. You can get multiple consequences from one dice roll. For example, with a ranged shot you could hit, get a free maneuvre and suffer a free attack (I think) as the result of the roll. The result could be a combination of any of the above three, or none.

ragnar63 said:

I'm guessing that the Swordmaster will be an advanced career. I'm also concerned by the lack of careers, but am hoping that the core will have mostly 'general' careers that can cover a lot of archetypes. There was never really any reason to have seperate careers for Soldier, Marine and Mercenary, so a Soldier career could cover all three. Likewise a Burgher or Craftsman career could probably cover a number of the urban non-combat careers, thief could cover Thief, Rogue and a few others etc.

Yeah I have a feeling that some of the careers might be a bit more open to interpretation than before.

Like macd21 just wrote, the "fighter" class could be many things. The player could decide that he's a conscript, freelance mercenary, highway-man, sailor, general thug, assassin or whatever.

Maybe it will be more like Dark Heresy in the sense that each career only requires a player to choose a certain NUMBER of advancements to be able to go up a level or to an advanced class. It might not be as railroaded as we fear?

Of course, like all other speculation, we will have to wait until we get more concrete info...

*SO IMPATIENT*

A single Rogue career (encompassing Thief, Rogue, Gambler even) would be keeping with the trend of consolidating and streamlining in V3. It'll probably rob some of the flavor from the careers, but it might give PCs access to a wider range of activities. As always, we won't know if that's better for roleplaying until we see it in action.

Necrozius said:

That makes way more sense regarding the skill cards that have been pictured. I was just speculating and hoping a fight wouldn't break out. Tensions are raised rather high for the release of an RPG.

Necrozius said:

I just realized that my posts sure must've read as if they were written by a fretting old nanny. "Oh GOSH" "Oh I DO hope".

Christ. Sorry 'bout dat.

I am worried that there might be too much consolidation of careers. I rather enjoyed the differences between a mercenary, soldier, militia,and marine, or rogue, thief, charlatan, or burgher and tradesman, or valet, servant , barber-surgeon, howver slight. This was what added flavour to WFRP, in comparison to the generic fighter, thief, ranger, cleric and wizard careers of D&D. For that matter, if you think that these careers can all be made generic then surely student, initiate, apprentice wizard could all be classified under a generic scolar career. I ,and I am sure you, would think not . The old career system was never a straight jacket, but rather reflected the priorities of each profession, however flawed. i hope we don't end up with too many generic professions, leading to generic characters until we get to the 'advanced' careers. A final thought is why have a specialised ratcatcher career, when it could be lumped in with, sewerjack, and ragpicker in a generic scum career.

Diriel said:

If we're not careful, we'll all get 1 point of stress. So cool it! (War of the Beard, grumble, grumble.)

ragnar63 said:

Lots of distinct careers are cool, but how distinct are the soldier, militaman, mercenary, town watch, etc? They are all basically a fighter variant with different specifics in their day to day activities. I think that can be summed up in skills without overwhelming a careers list. The same can be said for a rogue-ish character. Is she a thief, burglar, footpad, bawd, and so on. It all happens to be what skills they use. That's my two cents either way.

BUT! I really want to see some designer diaries! Snoopy snoop snoop...

E

ragnar63 said:

A scholar career could consist of scribes and students, but it would not be appropriate to include apprentice wizards and initiates as they have special, unique abilities.

Generic careers are good if they are flexible enough to encompass a wide selection of archetypes without straightjacketing the player. Many of the careers in v2 were unnecessary and could have easily been covered by a single career, just with more options. As it was, most of the careers in v2 were straightjackets (every soldier was pretty much the same). I'm hoping there is a lot more flexibility in v3 careers, but I doubt it from what I've seen so far.

I'd like to see a generic scum career in the core, one that you could theoretically create a ratcatcher with. However just because you have a generic scum career doesn't mean you can't substitute more specific careers later on. You could have a 'knight' career in the core, but release 'Bretonnian Knight', "Reiksguard Knight" or 'Silver Helm" careers later on. But the important thing is to cover as many bases as possible in the core.

I must admit to still not being convinced about the more generic careers idea. It is not just about the skills and talents, but also the entries and exits of the career. Looking just at the skills and talents you could just as easily put thug, bodyguard and protagonist in with soldier, mercenary, marine, militiaman and watchman in a general fighter career. However if you look at the possible career exits, it would be very difficult to combine all these, without giving the generic fighter a huge amount of possible exits, which would make a bit of a mockery of having careers at all. After all militiamen and watchmen don't get an extra attack in their profile, largely because they don't get the training of the others, so why combine them with more professional careers who do

macd21 said:

jadrax said:

Not really, no. I don't know how you came to that conclusion. The tightness of the straightjacket has nothing to do with whether a splat is a 'class' or 'career', two things which aren't very different from each other in any case.

macd21 said: