I'm interested in trying the "slim" Aggressor build eventually, but I'm not convinced yet that it's the best way forward. If you're not slapping upgrades all over it you've just got a ship with the offense of an X-Wing, the defense of a TIE fighter, and the hit points of a B-Wing. Which would be an *amazing* package on a small-base ship, but on a large-base your overclocked speed is going to prevent you from applying those stats with the consistency and reliability you'd hope for.

I would like to forward the point that those three things together in one package, IE X-wing attack, TIE Fighter Defense, and B-wing HP together on one chassis, even a large base chassis, is no small thing. Mathematically, assuming just the statline without upgrades or the like, its overall durability rivals that of a Decimator. 8 HP with 3 evade is a big deal and is impressive for the price.

True enough, but you also need to consider that you might spend a lot of rounds with targets behind you, pecking away as you regroup. Although between IG-88C, PTL turtling, and Autothrusters that might be an acceptable state of affairs.

I'm going to try an HLC-based "joust, flee, and turn around" build tonight and see how it feels.

I'm going to try an HLC-based "joust, flee, and turn around" build tonight and see how it feels.

Sounds like a great idea! I might try that.

Before reading that post, my thought was running a CD build with the following:

-Advanced Sensors (3)

-Outmaneuver (3)

-Autothrusters (2) [this is just for insurance against turrets]

-Inertial Dampeners (1)

At that point, I only have 10 points left, so it's too late to add another ship. I might as well fill it out. I think I'd throw a Proton Bomb on each one to bring me to 100 pts.

The idea here is that your offense is really coming from outmaneuvering your foes. By focusing 100% on staying out of arc, you increase survivability and gain an offensive boost at the same time. I still think it struggles a little on offense, but it should be able to survive long enough for the red dice to do their thing.

I went with a build that was posted earlier in the thread:

IG-88B and IG-88C

> Push the Limit
> Fire-Control System
> Heavy Laser Cannon
> Autothrusters
> IG-2000

My opponent was using Echo (VI, RecSpec, ACD, Sensor Jammer), Howlrunner (PTL), and 3x Academy TIEs.

It didn't go great for me. I basically still had a full-health IG-88C by the time we checked out and decided the game was taking too long and we should call it quits. But all I managed to kill was Howlrunner. That occurred during the first joust exchange of the game. The IGs do pretty well for that one round -- they can easily stack a focus and an evade, count on the Autothruster bonus and the range 3 dice denial of the HLC, and on top of all that take a primary shot first hoping to miss, FCS lock, and then unleash the HLC. Howlrunner got smoked, even after turPTLing up with a focus + evade herself.

But after that it got messy. Between blocking paranoia and asteroids I found it difficult to flee and turn around with the IGs. Without a 4/5 forward it's hard to get out of dodge quickly. K-turning/Segnoring seldom seemed like a great idea; I'd lose actions and then the next turn probably still be in too tight to pull off a green without bumping anything.

Granted, Phantoms are always a bad match-up for IGs, and I also don't have a convincing asteroid placement plan for this list... but even beyond that, I don't feel like I have the chops to fly it.

There were moments I found myself wishing I'd taken Daredevil, so that might be something I'll try in the future.

So it sounds like staying out of arc might be easier said than done?

I went with a build that was posted earlier in the thread:

IG-88B and IG-88C

> Push the Limit

> Fire-Control System

> Heavy Laser Cannon

> Autothrusters

> IG-2000

1. Without a 4/5 forward it's hard to get out of dodge quickly.

2. K-turning/Segnoring seldom seemed like a great idea; I'd lose actions and then the next turn probably still be in too tight to pull off a green without bumping anything.

3. Granted, Phantoms are always a bad match-up for IGs, and I also don't have a convincing asteroid placement plan for this list... but even beyond that, I don't feel like I have the chops to fly it.

4. There were moments I found myself wishing I'd taken Daredevil, so that might be something I'll try in the future.

*trimmed the quote to show which parts I am specifically replying to*

1. Boost.

2. Advanced Sensors would have helped you keep your action.

3. I would imagine giving your ships enough space between asteroids to S-Loop would be best.

4. Daredevil might not be a bad idea. Also, Inertial Dampeners.

With a battle report like this I can see even more reason to include Torkil Mux in a dual Aggressor list. That would have ruined Echo's day.

The more I look at it GroggyGolem, the more I come to like that squad. I might make one change. How about exchanging Veteran Instincts for Adrenaline Rush? You get a few one-time tricks that makes your Aggressors pretty unpredictable until you use them. Are you gonna stop with Inertial Dampeners? Or Segnor's loop followed by a boost + free evade?

If Torkil is dropping PS for you, maybe VI isn't as necessary.

So it sounds like staying out of arc might be easier said than done?

I found it relatively easy to do with the Wingman build I mentioned earlier. The problem there was that once you landed out of arc you were taking unmodified shots at the guys you just deked.

I went with a build that was posted earlier in the thread:

IG-88B and IG-88C

> Push the Limit

> Fire-Control System

> Heavy Laser Cannon

> Autothrusters

> IG-2000

1. Without a 4/5 forward it's hard to get out of dodge quickly.

2. K-turning/Segnoring seldom seemed like a great idea; I'd lose actions and then the next turn probably still be in too tight to pull off a green without bumping anything.

3. Granted, Phantoms are always a bad match-up for IGs, and I also don't have a convincing asteroid placement plan for this list... but even beyond that, I don't feel like I have the chops to fly it.

4. There were moments I found myself wishing I'd taken Daredevil, so that might be something I'll try in the future.

*trimmed the quote to show which parts I am specifically replying to*

1. Boost.

2. Advanced Sensors would have helped you keep your action.

3. I would imagine giving your ships enough space between asteroids to S-Loop would be best.

4. Daredevil might not be a bad idea. Also, Inertial Dampeners.

With a battle report like this I can see even more reason to include Torkil Mux in a dual Aggressor list. That would have ruined Echo's day.

1. One problem was the 3-speeds not being long enough to get me past the blockers lining up in front of me. Unfortunately boost can't help there. I did make a mistake, though -- while I fully intended to line up and joust, I shouldn't have done it right in front of the enemy. It would have been smarter to stagger my line of approach to one side of their heading, so I could make a cleaner escape when we got close.

2. Agreed, they're something else I found myself wishing for often. The FCS is useful, but I think AS are better overall.

3. Yeah, my asteroid placement was not good at all that game.

4. Yup

5. Torkil rules! But at that point you've stripped down the IGs so far that I worry they won't sink damage. No cannon hijinks, no action stacking. You're just rolling three naked dice (hopefully with focus). But I'm ready to playtest Tork as a wingmate to the 'bots soon.

The more I look at it GroggyGolem, the more I come to like that squad. I might make one change. How about exchanging Veteran Instincts for Adrenaline Rush? You get a few one-time tricks that makes your Aggressors pretty unpredictable until you use them. Are you gonna stop with Inertial Dampeners? Or Segnor's loop followed by a boost + free evade?

If Torkil is dropping PS for you, maybe VI isn't as necessary.

Agreed. I was trying to figure out what to do besides VI. You could vie for Initiative if you really think you need it. You could choose another 1pt Elite Talent for each Aggressor, or a 2pt Talent for one of them. The only reason I considered VI on them still is in the case that the opposing squad has more than one high Pilot Skill ship. Torkil, while a good option, is only going to affect one ship per round, provided he can stay within Range 1-2 of it.

I think Adrenaline Rush is a good idea. Makes it really hard for them to guess your maneuvers.

So it sounds like staying out of arc might be easier said than done?

I found it relatively easy to do with the Wingman build I mentioned earlier. The problem there was that once you landed out of arc you were taking unmodified shots at the guys you just deked.

I went with a build that was posted earlier in the thread:

IG-88B and IG-88C

> Push the Limit

> Fire-Control System

> Heavy Laser Cannon

> Autothrusters

> IG-2000

1. Without a 4/5 forward it's hard to get out of dodge quickly.

2. K-turning/Segnoring seldom seemed like a great idea; I'd lose actions and then the next turn probably still be in too tight to pull off a green without bumping anything.

3. Granted, Phantoms are always a bad match-up for IGs, and I also don't have a convincing asteroid placement plan for this list... but even beyond that, I don't feel like I have the chops to fly it.

4. There were moments I found myself wishing I'd taken Daredevil, so that might be something I'll try in the future.

*trimmed the quote to show which parts I am specifically replying to*

1. Boost.

2. Advanced Sensors would have helped you keep your action.

3. I would imagine giving your ships enough space between asteroids to S-Loop would be best.

4. Daredevil might not be a bad idea. Also, Inertial Dampeners.

With a battle report like this I can see even more reason to include Torkil Mux in a dual Aggressor list. That would have ruined Echo's day.

1. One problem was the 3-speeds not being long enough to get me past the blockers lining up in front of me. Unfortunately boost can't help there. I did make a mistake, though -- while I fully intended to line up and joust, I shouldn't have done it right in front of the enemy. It would have been smarter to stagger my line of approach to one side of their heading, so I could make a cleaner escape when we got close.

2. Agreed, they're something else I found myself wishing for often. The FCS is useful, but I think AS are better overall.

3. Yeah, my asteroid placement was not good at all that game.

4. Yup

5. Torkil rules! But at that point you've stripped down the IGs so far that I worry they won't sink damage. No cannon hijinks, no action stacking. You're just rolling three naked dice (hopefully with focus). But I'm ready to playtest Tork as a wingmate to the 'bots soon.

True, you don't have a whole lot of upgrades on the Aggressors when using three ships, which is why I chose the 2 Aggressors who benefit from fancy maneuvers. While they may not have a a ton of Upgrades, they do have the ability to share their Pilot Abilities, they have Advanced sensors, they can Evade/Boost naturally on a Large Ship with 3 natural Attack/Agility dice and a decent Pilot Skill with 8 hitpoints.

I think, if you want to kit out an Aggressor, it's best done in a 100pt squad that only uses a single Aggressor or in Epic, where you can have 4, 50pt Aggressors for 200 pts.

Okay, let's play crazy for a second. I call this list Passive Aggressors

IG-88C (36)

-Enhanced Scopes (1)

-Anti-Pursuit Lasers (2)

-IG-2000 (0)

-Proton Bombs (5)

-Intimidation (2)

-"Hot Shot" Blaster (2)

IG-88D (36)

-Enhanced Scopes (1)

-Anti-Pursuit Lasers (2)

-IG-2000 (0)

-Proton Bombs (5)

-Intimidation (2)

-"Hot Shot" Blaster (3)

TOTAL: 98 points

Rather than worry about arc-dodging and lining up shots, you're really just trying to ram block things. Enhanced Scopes means you can almost guarantee having an action. That action could be boost+evade. Each time you manage to block something, you could be doing damage. If you're lucky enough to block with one Aggressor and have the blocked ship in line with the other, Intimidation kicks in, lowering the blocked ship's agility value by 1. Since you're not trying to necessarily get things in front of you, you pack bombs and a "Hot Shot" Blaster to cover your six.

The beauty of this build is that if there are only 2 or 3 enemy ships, you may not be taking many shots since they won't be able to fire back at you.

I know. It's crazy. I wouldn't take it to a tournament, but I'd definitely bring it to a game night if I had the parts for it.

Scum ships that cost less than 28, and can therefore fit with two IG-88. (I refuse to pluralize it in English, as that offers the possibility of up to 19 of it. And that would be terrifying.)

12 Binayre Pirate

13 Black Sun Soldier

14 Cartel Spacer

15 •Kaa'to Leechos

17 Tansarii Point Veteran

•N'Dru Suhalk

18 Syndicate Thug

•Laetin Ashera

20 ??? PS 4 Y-Wing pilot? This didn't get initially spoiled, but it fits the curve...

•Serisseu

22 •Drea Rinthal

24 •Kavil

25 Black Sun Enforcer

27 Black Sun Vigo

And also, probably the HWKs, but I can't really describe their price without attaching upgrades first. Experiment!

Great list, DraconPyrothayan! I think the easiest to include is the Binayre Pirate. But when I get to that point, I wonder how much a little 2-attack ship is really going to add. And will it just get in the way of my Aggressors? But maybe I don't value a third shot highly enough. I'll definitely experiment next week!

Slightly off topic, but this has become my dual Aggressor theme music:

I went with a build that was posted earlier in the thread:

IG-88B and IG-88C

> Push the Limit

> Fire-Control System

> Heavy Laser Cannon

> Autothrusters

> IG-2000

My opponent was using Echo (VI, RecSpec, ACD, Sensor Jammer), Howlrunner (PTL), and 3x Academy TIEs.

It didn't go great for me. I basically still had a full-health IG-88C by the time we checked out and decided the game was taking too long and we should call it quits. But all I managed to kill was Howlrunner. That occurred during the first joust exchange of the game. The IGs do pretty well for that one round -- they can easily stack a focus and an evade, count on the Autothruster bonus and the range 3 dice denial of the HLC, and on top of all that take a primary shot first hoping to miss, FCS lock, and then unleash the HLC. Howlrunner got smoked, even after turPTLing up with a focus + evade herself.

You don't have to take a primary. You can shoot with the HLC, and if it misses, you just shoot again. They mentioned that in the spoiler article.

Which is kind of why it is sad they don't have a torpedo slot. If they did you could run Flechette Torpedoes, Accuracy Corrector to make it 0 hits, and then pop the HLC. The target would take a stress and then an HLC shot.

Scum ships that cost less than 28, and can therefore fit with two IG-88. (I refuse to pluralize it in English, as that offers the possibility of up to 19 of it. And that would be terrifying.)

12 Binayre Pirate

13 Black Sun Soldier

14 Cartel Spacer

15 •Kaa'to Leechos

17 Tansarii Point Veteran

•N'Dru Suhalk

18 Syndicate Thug

•Laetin Ashera

20 ??? PS 4 Y-Wing pilot? This didn't get initially spoiled, but it fits the curve...

•Serisseu

22 •Drea Rinthal

24 •Kavil

25 Black Sun Enforcer

27 Black Sun Vigo

And also, probably the HWKs, but I can't really describe their price without attaching upgrades first. Experiment!

I've said it before. Dual IG lists need another ship as support, damage, or distraction, similar 2 dual Firesprays with a third escort.

While so far I've done well with the lists I posted previously.

I came up with another interesting idea for a duel fat aggressor list.

Ig88 c/b

Ptl

Enhance scopes

Inertial dampers

Autothrusters

Hlc

Now hear me out

I keep coming back to Ig88-c due to the fact when ptl your stuck doing banks or straight moves to clear your stress.

Once you so your fly by you will need to turn around. If stressed k turn is not an option so boosting to get back to the action is the fastest way to get turned around, so may as well get that free evade.

Autothrusters because that has prevented quite a bit of dmg over the few games I've used it.

Hlc because with only two ships you need heavy dmg. Which is why Ig88 B is there. Only downside is you can't use his ability range 1

Now I haven't tried this but the idea is enhanced scopes will prevent you from becoming block and make this pair much better blockers.

If a group of academy let's say gets in front, then you can use your inertial dampers and stay put. Let them fly into you.

Then continue with a 3 straight or bank away and start boosting to get yourself oriented again.

I haven't tried it, but i did finally get to try my previous build against a fat Han and it did so ok, and I got the win. Against fat Han, using one as a blocker and the other to attack with a hlc is too much for him.

When he attacked back autothrusters almost always kicked in making it harder for him to do dmg. Especially when paired up with a focus/evade and three green dice

I don't think you need a third ship at all to make the pair work.

In fact playing around with the builder i found additional ship makes the duel aggressors weaker in a sense.

If you opt away from the hlc your only using three red dice and with only 16 hp between the two you want to kill things fast and the hlc kills things much faster vs primary only.

Another option I did consider was maybe using Ig88D. Only because I know a few instances having that three turn would have been nice and actually since they don't have a three turn on their dial, this would allow you to at least get that.

That's what I've found so far using them

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum%20and%20Villainy&d=v3!s!110:27,-1,-1,-1,-1,108:20:-1:;111:27,-1,-1,-1,-1,108:20:-1:;126:0,-1,-1:-1:-1:

For those worried about phantoms or other high pilot skill ships, there's Torkil Mux With Ion Turret. If you still want higher PS, put VI on the Aggressors.

Edited because: I forgot to add the IG-2000 title

That's exactly the list I was thinking about! It's been kind of confusing to me that people wouldn't run a third ship with these guys. I was also thinking about taking the Mangler Canons and just flying Serissu alongside at only 20 points to help their re-rolls.

@Krynn007

It's an interesting thought. But if you use Enhanced Scopes, are you going to know where to maneuver to line up your shots? It makes you vulnerable to arc-dodgers, unless you're hoping to block some things and fire at the rest.

In regards to the HLC range 1 limitation, I've been seriously considering throwing some Flechette Cannons on. For a mere 2 points, you get to keep your reroll at range 1 and deal a stress, which most pilots won't appreciate.

@Krynn007

It's an interesting thought. But if you use Enhanced Scopes, are you going to know where to maneuver to line up your shots? It makes you vulnerable to arc-dodgers, unless you're hoping to block some things and fire at the rest.

In regards to the HLC range 1 limitation, I've been seriously considering throwing some Flechette Cannons on. For a mere 2 points, you get to keep your reroll at range 1 and deal a stress, which most pilots won't appreciate.

Was against 4 ties and fett.

Though I forgot about the gunner ability the first round which may have made a difference.

Here's what I found

With enhanced scopes it was really good blocked like I thought.

Inertial dampers also worked just as I thought.

What I found though was without fire control systems I was taking shots with no modifiers.

One round I used inertial dampers while stressed. While at the time it was convenient, it left one Ig88 with no actions for two rounds.

Since always ptl, so again without fire control systems I was feel the lack of dmg

But even so, it really did take my opponent a long time to kill either one. Having the focus, evade and autothrusters they do take a lot of fire to bring down.

There were some rounds I did have hard time wondering where will my opponent be going.

As for the arc dodgers the idea is get in their way, or Block decloak lanes which I don't think that would be hard. Inertial dampers can also surprise your opponent. Which I think could be good for those arc dodgers.

The list I've used the most and so far only one loss, and did well vs fat Han was

Ig88b/c

Ptl

Hlc

Title

Autothrusters

Fire control systems

Again autothrusters is very nice for two pts. Just about every game you prevent a decent amount of dmg with them

The other build I mentioned I've won couple games with was

Ig88 B/c

Ptl

Hlc

Title

Advanced Sensors

Inertial dampers

Though I do have to say I've yet fly against a Phantom with any of these builds, but i do feel confident enough that it could still take them on

Getting to boost/evade ptl focus, do a green is very nice and in this case don't need to worry about being blocked anyway.

Also the extra manueverability can make them good blockers for the high ps arc dodgers.

Only downside I found is doing a kturn leaves you one round trying to get back into your groove, but even so, advanced sensors is great for when you do kturn

At least you can still get that focus or boost if needed to get around.

I will test out one more build with these ships

Ig88 a/d

Fire control systems

Torkil Mux

Ion cannon.

For those high ps maneuverable ships Torkil will get to reduce their ps 0 and get a good chance to ion them.

Allowing the Ig88 to get in a position and finish them off.

I've done very very well with Jan and ion turrets with veteran instincts against Phantoms, so with this I believe it be great for phantoms.

Only worry I have would be against fat Han. As only having the three attack dice from each, and not gaining that extra defense boost from ptl, autothrusters and c ability I'm afraid that this build will probably be the weakest.

So far for me it's a toss up between the two builds I have done well with.

I ran a couple straw-man games last night. The issue I ran into was not getting in range 2-3 with HLC. I still got 4 dice at range 1, but it was less potent without IG-88B's ability to roll a new attack. Have you found that to be an issue?

Well o never really had a issue getting range 2-3 shots, but come to think of it, getting to rng1 would be in your opponents interest for multiple reasons

1) They will get extra red dice

2) Autothrusters won't work, unless outside arc

3) Ig88-b ability cannot kick in (if only hlc equipped)

But honestly so far in most games that has not been much of a issue

An idea I just had, and I'll try this one next.

Replace ig88-c with D.

Replace ptl with predator

Reason?

At ps 6 your only mid ps, so not high ps to arc dodge.

With hlc you want to stay far away.

Ig88 d ability adds a three turn to the dial. It's a ktur, but it's an extra option.

Use Advanced sensors and you always get your action.

No worry about being blocked.

Also gain an action before turning around.

With predator, your not ptl and gaining stress every round. Making it easier to make use of the kturning, and one and two turns.

Predator is also a good replacement I'm thinking because since in this variation I am going with advanced sensors, I'm not gaining that target lock every shot from fire control systems, and again not having to rely on ptl.

With two pts left over inertial dampers.

I find it a good surprise at times for your opponent. Still gets the action economy from advanced sensors and predator

Only downside, no autothrusters.

Since no ptl no turtle up with focus and evade, which is great with autothrusters

I've prevented a lot of dmg with that little combo

At 16 total hp, they sure do live longer than expected

I ran a couple straw-man games last night. The issue I ran into was not getting in range 2-3 with HLC. I still got 4 dice at range 1, but it was less potent without IG-88B's ability to roll a new attack. Have you found that to be an issue?

B loves Fire-Control System, but also loves Predator to a lesser extent, and for the same reason.

B with an HLC loves D, as those extra Segnor Loop options give you added distance during the scrim, whereas Boosting (from C) gets you into Range 1 more often than not.

If you're going with BC, may I suggest a Mangler Cannon instead?

I have considered the mangler cannon.

But with only two ships having the three attack dice can take a lot longer to kill things.

While using the hlc I've won a few games, but in some cases close to losing a ship, or both be hurting.

Without the hlc I may have lost due to lose of firepower

On the "difficulty running away and turning" part, a 3 forward and boost is the same as a small based ship performing a 5 straight and boost, which basically means you can outrun anything that's not an Interceptor or A-Wing. The important thing is to pick your initial approach angle wisely so that you have space to do it, and also to think very carefully about what speed you set in the initial joust.

Turn 1: Advance. No shots.

Turn 2: Sit on the edge of R3 and exchange long range fire, gaining target locks etc.

Turn 3: Get into R1 and unload as hard as you can.

Turn 4: Hit a long straight or 3 bank and boost even further.

Turn 5: K-Turn/Segnors.

Turn 6: Destress.

Repeat from Turn 2.

Don't try to knife fight. You'll be trying to engage with piss poor action economy from the red turns. Other ships are better at it, with higher PS, and will eat you alive. Any named Phantom. Any named Squint. Dash in the 2400. Bounty Hunters. They're all moving after you, and can easily arc dodge if you try to stay in close.

I've thought a lot about Mangler, Marksmanship, FCS and IG-88B. By using Marksmanship, you get to use focus for both attacks. You also get one eye turned into a crit, which works nice with Mangler. With FCS, you're basically getting TL/Focus every round for your second shot at any range and you don't have to PtL to do it. Plus, you could fit some other upgrades with points you save from HLC.