Reply in quote surrounded by ##

If you have a game group where every member is likely to wanna try their hand at running a game then your analogy works - but I submit that many game groups don't work that way.

##I agree most groups do not run that way. What I was getting at is more if you wanted to play a class from the other books at a table where the GM only has 1 core book then buying the other core should be your responsibility not the GMS.##

Running a game isn't like playing in one, and not everybody at the table has the chops to run a successful game. Some do but won't run anyway because it's a lot of work and they just don't wanna invest the time. For such folk, one or two books is all they'll ever buy

# and all they need to those people will probably be more likely to stick with 1 core and maybe a supplement for their class making the multi core discussion invalid for them##

and with the proliferation at the gaming table both of electronics and the proliferation of free online dice rollers for FFG's system, most really don't need to worry about paying for dice.

## fair enough but not all have moved with the tech, our groups dislike rollers to discorage certain behaviors##

It's also been my experience that game groups where every single player will bother to buy any of the books in the game at all are also not that common. I have run games for groups for years where I was the only one who had a copy of the rules, such that I often had to buy multiple copies, one for me, and another as a "table copy". That means that there's a lot of borrowing going on and reading over people's shoulders because it's been my experience that - particularly when we get older - gamers do their gaming when they do their gaming, not before and not after. Why should they buy a copy of the rules if they're never gonna read them because they're too busy?

## because of how we play this happens a lot with us as well. We run 6 weeks of a game and swap GMs and systems going back to the game when that GMs turn comes around again. This again comes down to choice when running...if you want things from a Core I do not have then you buy the book if I don't want it. If not use what I have.##

So under those circumstances really it becomes the guy who's always running who introduces a player to a new system - not the LGS. So how many books and how much space taken up on the shelves and whether or not there's a box set becomes less of a turning point for decision.

## I disagree here game stores cannot stock everything. So unless you do all your game shopping online then you need your FLGS to stock it. Stocking 2 products instead of one will affect their profits in and industry that does not have a lot of margin.##

I know there are still people who like everything in one book, but, imagine how honked off you'd be if every single GURPS book was printed with the basic rules in it. Could you imagine that? Gurps has...what...**** near 100 Supps out, maybe more? How long would Gurps fans put up with paying extra for rules they already have?

## But you can play with just the GURPS rulebook! If you take the core rules out and sell then separate then things need to be playable from out of that book. That meen you need to add races, specialisations and equipment.......so basically the beta books.##

You might not like the idea of a separate core document for the mechanics but I would bet my **** spleen you'd like to see the basic rules reprinted in every supplement even less.

## but I have not been saying that what I have been saying is that a CRB needs to be playable from first purchase.##

Even if you only ever bought five or six...you'd very quickly ask yourself just what the hell there needed to be basic rules in with the Space Atlases for anyhow?

>>Just looking at the prices FFG charges for their supplements it should be clear to anyone with an incling of honesty in its argumentation that the way Corradus is proposing would have not been a cheaper alternative.<<

I have said before, I will say again, I will keep saying if I must - this is not about PRICE, it's about what you get for the money.

>>As for the "club house atmosphere" and the "the tribe"like feel to these boards I don't think that is actually the case here at all.<<

I know you don't.

>>Sure more people will like the game than not but that is pretty normal for a group of people on any specific forum<<

Which is exactly what I said.

>>but I am seeing a lot of reasonable discussions (which I do not count this one towards) in many, many topics and no one here is afraid of being critical towards the game at all.<<

Afraid isn't the right word for it. I'm not sitting here quaking in terror at the mere thought of speaking an unpopular POV, that's not how it works, but it was suggested that the reason more people don't speak out in support of my position is that few agree with me, and I counter-proposed that what's more likely is that this is not a place you come to and spend a lot of time talking when you think the Devs/writers et al have made a mistake. Nobody likes to be repeatedly told they're wrong and most people don't want to get into long arguments on a forum. I think that's very different from "it's because people don't agree with you". But again, it must be stressed that in the end, we don't know for sure. I might be right, I might be wrong about why my voice is more or less alone.

>>FFG has always been upfront about how they were going to "do" their SW game and have thus carried that out to its conclusion,<<

They sure have. I criticized them then and I'm doing it now. I never said they were lying about anything, at best I accused them of being unimaginative and milking their supporters un-necessarily, but I never said they hid anything from us.

>>you might not like it but snarky comments to spark a dead horse of an issue back to semi-life just for the sake of it<<

Yes, I have made some snarky comments. Usually in response to the posted equivalent of dismayed groans, eyerolling and "OMGLETITGOALREADYJEEEZE" responses.

Something else I will restate - again...and again if I must...no issue is a dead horse unless it's allowed to be. And I didn't "do it for the Lulz, hurr hurr"...I did it because the issue is important to me and I am hoping something changes. Regardless of what you personally think of that hope, I feel it nonetheless.

>>followed by numerous larger posts of being the misunderstood poster are just a show. I am in fact pretty sure you were trolling for us to comment and we failed to sidestep it.<<

And how precisely would you know this? Divine revelation? Did you use the Force? Are you really that unfamiliar with people making arguments and defending them? Is it that alien to you? Do you really not know the difference between someone who wants to start fights about everything and anything and someone who has a couple of issues he feels strongly about and isn't about to let himself be pooh-poohed into silence?

"And now as a consequence had you rain on the parade that was this topic. Con ******* gratulations."

See, you make statements like this and then wonder why I respond with sarcasm. You accuse me of taking a position where I act like I'm put upon and then you do the same thing in lines like this. As though somehow my opinions here are the end of the world, as if now people won't buy it, as if now it won't succeed and there's just no use talking anymore because people like me will jump out of the bushes and make the children cry and the old folks faint.

If this truly is a parade (and if by parade you mean a long Topic thread of people expressing delight and anticipation about the book's release) my opinions won't do a **** thing to stop it. If you don't wanna see my opinions use your scroll wheel. If you don't wanna engage my opinions don't type in the box and hit post, but I haven't piddled in anyone's Kool-Aid. When I have made my point, I will go away until such time as I feel the need to make it again. In the meantime I'll talk about other stuff.

Admins please LOCK THIS THREAD.

Woo hoo! FnD Core was announced! I am very excited for this book even though no one in my current game is playin' with the Force.

(Sadly, I think it might be released at Gen Con and I don't think I'll be able to make it this year.)

Well, excuse me to address a few of the things in your reply before I move on to more interesting distractions.

I find there is quite a conflict between

I have said before, I will say again, I will keep saying if I must - this is not about PRICE, it's about what you get for the money

and

milking their supporters un-necessarily.

You do make it a money issue. Constantely. And what you "get for the money" is in the eye of the beholder. If I was only interested in EotE than I would be quite happy to see the single book containing all, as it is I am interested in all lines so perhaps the 200 or so pages (your count, not mine) are superfluous were it not that I can just bring one book to pretty much any session.

Yes, I have made some snarky comments. Usually in response to the posted equivalent of dismayed groans, eyerolling and OMGLETITGOALREADYJEEEZE" responses.

See, you make statements like this and then wonder why I respond with sarcasm.

Not the case. You actually started off doing this. You can look it up and see for yourself. Sarcasm was your jump off point and that started the argument, not the other way around.

Of course you now want to retrace your footsteps and act like the misunderstood heroic fighter against the additional priniting of Core Rules in 2(!) books but let's be honest you kinda had this backlash coming from your first post onward.

no issue is a dead horse unless it's allowed to be... snip... I did it because the issue is important to me

Imagine that... No wonder people named you a troll in this topic. The fact that FFG puts their core rules in 3 books is "important" to you? Excuse me while I sob for humanity.

If this truly is a parade (and if by parade you mean a long Topic thread of people expressing delight and anticipation about the book's release) my opinions won't do a **** thing to stop it.

No, but you sure did post that to try didn't you? And look what happened... I am as much guilty of engaging in this as well. But it feels a bit like wiping drool from a bloodhounds lips now, it is useless, the dog doesn't apprecate it and I feel somewhat dirty because of engaging in the action. I bid you farewell and leave you with a perfect tool to give you the exact experience you are looking for:

http://www2.fiskars.com/var/fiskars_amer/storage/images/frontpage2/sewing-quilting/products/scissors-and-sharpeners/the-original-orange-handled-scissors-8/16933-6-eng-US/The-Original-Orange-Handled-Scissors-8_product_main.png

Well DanteRotterdam ya sure showed me.

And now, as I said, I have made my point, repeatedly, and I'll stop and let you go back to celebrating the upcoming release.

I'm glad this third "game" is coming out, even if my original completionist plans have changed dramatically. I completely understand the value argument, but I also understand that the ship has sailed. Ultimately this means I still love the game and plan on running it for a long time, but I'll be in it for about 10-12 books instead of 30+.

Admins please LOCK THIS THREAD.

If you really want to bring this to an Admin's attention, report the posts of the problematic poster and cite them as such.

Of course, it's probably easier to just take HappyDaze's advice and add the person to your Ignore list on your forum profile. That way, you don't have to see that person's posts unless you want to.