Hey all!

So a question for all of you:

My group has found itself stranded on a hostile planet as an Ork Horde rampages across the surface. The PDF has been routed and the Navy has turned tail and run to get reinforcements.

My players have decided to set up shop in a secluded Supply Depot (long since looted) and decided to change the campaign from open warfare to Guerilla war. Not only have they decided to go Marbo on the Orks, but they want to turn the Depot into a fortress for an insurgent army, intending to lead an offensive on the Greenskins when the Guard comes back. They wanted to know if I could facilitate this change in the game.

I didn't say no to this request, as I'm always eager to provide the stories my players want to be part of (as long as they work for it). But I did say I'd need time to come up with what may be the most difficult system for the group- building a base for a hidden army.

If the regiment has a safe-ish place in the mountains or jungle to set up a hidden base camp, I was starting to wonder what sort of upgrades the group could invest in, how they would be self supporting, and these other things.

The system I came up with, they get so many points to spend between sessions, and then earn more points for successful mission completion (which allows me to slow their exp growth to prevent getting more OP).

Some buildings I've come up with (a Vox Center) require special items (a Command and Control Suite from a wrecked vehicle) and reveal the location of other Guardsmen. Others (Barracks) just cost points and don't do much (Regiment can support another squad of NPCs).

So yeah, GMs and players, imagine you're now building a small base for an insurgent Guard army. What sort of buildings would you include in your base? What kind of effects would you have? Would the cost of materials be High, Moderate, or Low? Would it require a special item retrieved narratively?

Have you ever played the first Dawn of War? it might make a good starting point for starting some ideas snowballing.

I'd say the most important facilities are accommodations, a dressing station, a field kitchen and a supply storage. Toilets are as simple as digging a hole and hanging a log to sit on over it (in German military parlance this setup was colloquially called a "donnerbalken" = "thunder bar"; you can guess why ). It's not gonna smell pretty, which is why it should be a few meters off the main compound. For extra sanitisation, have someone regularly shovel some slaked lime over it. If it fills too much, close it up with earth and dig a new hole next to it.

Ideally you're also going to have a generator to power everything, though this isn't even mandatory as lights and heat can come from other sources, too. On the long term, you're going to need one of these to recharge spent laspacks, though, so perhaps you've got your first objective right there? Also, your troops will have to stock up on foodstuffs and clean water, not to mention medical supplies, in particular painkillers and whatever passes for penicillin in the 41st millennium.

This is the bare minimum to keep a troop of soldiers rested, fed and in good health so they can fight a prolonged conflict. Even stuff such as a "vox center" comes secondary, since minimum communications should be possible even just with the backpack voxcasters carried by signal soldiers. For an improvised headquarters, just take one such backpack and prop it on a table -- done. Would give the entire base a more militia-like look, too, which seems to fit the narrative you're trying to go for, and thus add to the immersion.

And then of course we get to the sandbag pillboxes, wooden watchtowers with heavy weapon emplacements, forward deployed outlooks with cable-connection to the HQ to report on potential enemy movement advancing on your position, ...

Cost of materials probably depends a lot on what tier of complexity/professionalism the players want to go for. I suppose you could introduce an upgrade plan, such as slowly improving the dressing station from a bunch of tents with stretchers into a proper container-based field hospital with beds and heating. Heh, the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to believe there's potential for an entire sub-ruleset here. An idea for a future FFG supplement mayhaps?

Anyways, also don't forget that your little guerilla army should also aim for subtlety and take care to obscure their base from enemy eyes. Orks may not be very smart, but they've got airplanes, and even they are going to notice a bunch of populated buildings. Camo-nets or, if necessary, a lot of paint may thus come in handy, too.

So they're a guerilla army trying to operate out of a hidden fortress? Well, then, they lose. Guerilla armies' number one defense is mobility and if they end up fighting a straight-up fight they're going to lose that fight, period. So nailing yourself down to a specific fortress that you'll have to defend rather than abandon in the event of enemy attacks means you lose. A guerilla army doesn't want a hidden fortress but a hidden base camp which can be packed up into convoy form and moved around. So while Lynata's right about basic needs - quarters, medicine, food, and munitions, basically - it's also important to note that a very high priority after you have these things is transportation and back-up bases to flee to when the orks show up. When a base is attacked, the defenses only serve as a stalling action while you pack up as much stuff as possible into either transports or else just backpacks and leg it to the wilderness, dodge your pursuers, and then get to a new base.

This means it's important to keep track of how much stuff you can pack into transports/backpacks and how much you have to abandon. Things like full vox stations probably can't really be packed up at all, so you can either build redundant ones at back-up bases or else just accept that you'll have to replace the things every time orks find your base. Anytime you're attacked, you're also at risk of losing a certain amount of gear. What gear you lose is extremely complicated based on how much stuff you have to pack up, how obvious your transports are, how easy it is to lose them in the local terrain, which transports the orks happen to discover, which things happen to get packed up last if you have to abandon the base, and whether or not a transport just gets lost. All of this can be easily abstracted down to a single d100 table that they can slowly fill up with all the stuff they've got. When a base gets attacked, roll a d100 and subtract 30 from the result. Everything above the total result is lost. Everything below is fine. That penalty can be chipped away or turned into a bonus if you can hold the line long enough. Every unit of stuff you lose also means losing a certain amount of troops or transports, so the party has several reasons to try and pack light.

This also means that rather than building each base up into a single do-anything superbase, they might want to specialize. For example, one base might be turned into a dedicated motor pool with spare parts and other supplies for vehicles you use to make hit-and-run attacks on ork positions, while another might be your main communications hub with your vox equipment, and a third might be your major hospital where you send your wounded troops for the best odds that they'll get back on their feet and on the frontlines in a hurry (everyone's going to want some kind of infirmary for immediate first aid and stabilization, but once you've got the bleeding stopped you can put someone in a buggy and drive them to your hospital base for longterm care). Having to ferry people who need all three from one base to another is a huge time sink, but it also means that if you lose one, you don't have to hold the line for nearly as long while evacuating to get everything out, and if you lose a base completely it takes less effort to rebuild.

Base placement is also important. Orks aren't super smart, but they know enough to figure out that if one area is home to lots of attacks, that's probably where the humies are at. More orks will pour in looking for a fight, and odds are someone will stumble across you sooner or later. If that someone doesn't suffer 100% casualties before informing his mates, it's time to start evacuating, and if all of your bases are in the same region, all of them will be under threat of discovery, so building up a bunch of bases so that you can launch raids from different areas and draw the attention of the orks from place to place before it builds up too much is important.

Of course, that leaves the big question of what exactly you're building these bases up to. How do you actually fight a guerilla war against the orks? They don't have supply lines, they have a mobile ecosystem built directly into each individual base. They don't usually have much strategy to disrupt. You can't demoralize them unless you start beating them hard in a straight fight. No amount of guerilla strikes or terror tactics will make a difference. You certainly can't hope to significantly thin their numbers. This is not a question I think the GM is obligated to answer. Send a text or an email around your players and ask them: Okay, you're going to fight a guerilla war against the orks. How?

Good post.

Just one thing I feel could warrant further discussion:

They don't have supply lines

That seems accurate for the smallest warbands, but at some level the Orks are going to start churning out stuff such as their bastardised wartrukks or even begin building gargants. They are far from logistics-dependent as modern real world armies are, but they still need raw materials to hammer into guns and ammo, and their food needs food.

The Third War of Armageddon as well as the Final Liberation computer game may offer some inspiration here, as both featured instances of small numbers of human resistance taking the fight to the Orks and slowly pushing back - on Armageddon in the form of Sororitas-backed peoples' militias conscripted directly out of the hives, and in Final Liberation a regiment of Mordian Iron Guard first securing a spaceport, then targeting the ex-Imperial factories that were occupied by the Orks, as well as picking up scattered Guard and PDF that were still operating in the area cut off from the chain of command.

Final Liberation in particular might be worth a look as it sounds very close to what OP is gunning for, except that the players wouldn't be the Mordians but rather one of the scattered units still alive and kicking.

If the Orks have won this planet and there are human settlements, they are going to take slaves, and they are going to put them to work for their war machinery. This is something where the player-led guerillas may strike - sabotaging not only the greenskins' war effort but also freeing human prisoners, some of whom they may be able to recruit for their cause.

All of that is more a case of preventing the Orks from growing even stronger and increasing their hold on the planet, though, for as Lupa mentioned, the effect on the basic warband will be negligible and the Orks will always have far more troops at their disposal. A long term goal should thus be not to beat the Orks single-handedly, but rather to prepare for the arrival of Imperial reinforcements. Suitable mission objectives could be to scout out strategically important areas for later, blowing up laser defence batteries that might be aimed at Imperial starships, or secretly infiltrating Ork-held manufactoriums for stuff such as rigging artillery shells to explode in the barrel.

http://web.archive.org/web/20021005050602/http://www.armageddon3.com/English/Campaign/Troops/ork_forces.html

Lynata: Thanks for the low-down on the bare necessities. I definitely think I was getting too far ahead of myself when I tried to make things too fancy with the Vox Center idea. I am working on a tier system so a lot of these things are going to be rearranged, but freeing prisoners with technical skills or finding PDF holdouts is going to be the name of the game.

Lupa: Also, thanks for the input on Guerrilla war. Once I have the basics of the system figured out, I'm going to make sure their next session is to scout other locations for smaller bases. If the group chooses to put all their eggs in that one basket because it's more secure (on paper at least- that supply depot won't stand up to a Looted Tank for long), then so be it. That's their choice. My biggest concern is developing a fair system for them to make use of. If they establish this base and they go straight home, I fully intend for the horde to follow them. That'll learn 'em!

Also if looking for ideas for base construction look at the Viet Cong during the Vietnam War. The Tunnels of Cu Chi...

I'd allow them to build the base under one condition. They're going to mimic cutting down bamboo sticks and tying them with weeds, sharpening them to build traps and crafting various pieces of furniture while this music plays:

Music for building anything

Lupa has raised some important issues regarding guerrilla warfare especially the fact that guerrilla forces shouldn’t attempt a standup fight with regular forces (strange as that may seem when considering orks).

He is wrong however about the mobility part. Guerrilla warfare has only ever succeeded if the guerrilla forces have some kind of safe haven. Every successful guerrilla campaign features such a location. Often the opponent would know approximately where that location was but for various reasons wasn’t able to attack it.

Mao marched his long march to the Chinese hinterlands where the nationalists couldn’t easily reach him. The Russian partisans hid in the pripyat swamps where the Nazi’s couldn’t easily find them. The Balkan partisans had their mountain retreats which the Nazi’s and Italians could not easily assail. The Kurdish insurgents would attack Turkish troops and then hotfoot it back over the border to be safe from retaliation.

And of course the original guerrilla forces also only survived regular sweeps by the French by hiding in the Spanish mountains.

Such an area is necessary to rest & recuperate, train new troops, build/repair weapons etc. Without it, there is no real resistance possible (see resistance during WWII, Holland/Belgium vs. countries with inaccessible areas).

All these guerrilla forces would then use their mobility and (greater) knowledge of the terrain to ambush/attack the enemy at their own choosing. That is the winning strategy.

Against orks with little formal strategy, weak (organised) supply needs, and little regard for the costs of constant guerrilla warfare, let alone the problem of facing a hostile population (any civvies left would be in prison/work camps), I have no idea how to make this work. But that’s up to your players, right?

Mao marched his long march to the Chinese hinterlands where the nationalists couldn’t easily reach him. The Russian partisans hid in the pripyat swamps where the Nazi’s couldn’t easily find them. The Balkan partisans had their mountain retreats which the Nazi’s and Italians could not easily assail. The Kurdish insurgents would attack Turkish troops and then hotfoot it back over the border to be safe from retaliation.

These aren't fortresses, they're regions. Keeping to a generally hard-to-navigate area is obviously advantageous, but that is very different from trying to run your entire guerilla army from just one base, or not having any back-up bases to evacuate to if the main one is discovered.

Also, nitpick: I am a she.

Oops, sorry . Meant it in a non-gender specific way....

True, but the fortress/base camp provides the same "safe" location as long as the enemy can't easily assail it. If they can, its obviously not a good idea and your suggestion of being mobile enough to pack up and leave comes into play.

But since these players have their hearts set on a base they can build themselves, I'd say indulge them. Just make it either far away, not easy accessible and/or hidden enough for it to be relatively safe.

After all, this is a game. So make it fun within the bounds of suspended belief. (Just my $0,02)

A bit of leeway may be justified anyways, specifically because the Orks have little formal strategy. In my opinion, they won't set up much in the way of elaborate patrol routes and checkpoints, instead preferring to dig into whatever places they occupied and fortify them. With no other enemies to fight, the Waaagh! will slowly simmer down and the Orks will begin "mucking about" and fighting against one another, using the newly acquired human slave labour and looted war materiel to fuel their internal strife.

Aside from drawing attention away from the players and their base, this also has the advantage of splitting up the Orks into several subfactions/clans which the "guerilla" fighters can take on one after another. You could play it up with some cliché a la the big Ork Waaaghboss growing fat and lazy, underestimating the threat posed by the human resistance and ordering one warband after another to deal with that thorn in his side, rather than staging a truly concerted effort. It'd be almost like one of those animes where the heroes work their way through several underbosses one by one before the big guy deems them worthy of his personal attention.

And who knows, maybe your players are lucky and they find an ancient Titan buried in the sand.

I am giving the players one Stronghold for crafting advanced weapons, healing critical injuries, etc. with the caveat of "As difficult as it is for the Orks to get there, it takes you just as long to leave."

If they spend all their time in the Green Zone, the Orks will become too numerous to stop and the Guard will write the planet off as unable to be reclaimed.

They have to take risks outside this base - establish outposts, accomplish objectives, reclaim war materials - in order to convince the eventual Imperial scouting party that, yes, the planet can be reclaimed and shouldn't just be written off.

I think this is striking that balance between giving my players what they want and keeping the narrative moving.

Fiddler, when this gets some headway, please post your system in the House Rules section. I would love to dive into your system and build from its foundations for my group.

Guerilla war against the Sevs sounds about right. Filthy roman bastards.

Also note that if the storyline does not go well or the characters and their querilla band get beaten up by the orks they can always retreat to safety and you can do a timeskip until the Imperial counter attack begins.

Or if they really enjoy it you can spend more time in their querilla attacks and when the counter attack finally begins the Imperial forces might just drop some supplies from the orbit to the querillas and make their land somewhere else. This way the orks would have to focus on two (or more) groups of enemies at the same time. (and maybe the Imperial commander in charge does not want to share the glory with some stupid grunts so (s)he is more than willing to take the credit for the successful invasion and then having the survivors shipped back to their regiment with a few shiny medals.)

IG forces may however not be too keen to work with the guerilla forces. In WWII, Wendell Fertig created a guerilla movement after MacArthur surrendered. Well, he ordered his 2-i-c to surrender while he fled.

MacArthur never forgave Fertig because that showed he could have fought on. So supplies were only grudingly provided and Fertig was never given the full support or recognition he deserved.

In 40k, that might well translate into a vainglorious IG lord general who actively orders the destruction of these "tainted" survivors....

Which would set up a nice 3-way fight and have the heroes/players find a way to convince higher authority about their worth.

Possible avenue for defection to the Dominate there! Severus is always looking for new recruits, and displaced imperial loyalists being hunted by their former comrades make perfect candidates to reinforce the Duke's forces.

All great story avenues.

If we're into historical references go to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Uprising#Soviet_stance

and change all Red Army to Imperial Army, Soviet to Imperial, Germans to Orks and Poles to you PC - story told.

I personally hate the fact that so many people get caught up in the "BUT THAT ISN'T WHAT HAPPENED IN -the one historical era they are familiar with- SO THAT CAN'T BE HOW IT IS IN ONLY WAR" mind set.

The opposite is also true: "In -whatever- this happened, so your premise is wrong."

Drawing from the past is good and well, I mean hell, I am a historian - I get it. But sometimes I wanna slam my foot down on the proverbial throat and scream, "Enough is enough. The past doesn't dictate your personal 40k game. Do what you want to do."

Westside.

*Drops Mic*

Edit: Sorry if that seemed like a tirade directed at you, Wincent. It wasn't, but I keep seeing the aforementioned things time and again in "discussions" on this forum and I am still all jacked up from the pre-workout legal crack juice. One love, baby. The Warsaw Uprising would be a sick campaign to run.

None offence taken. I don't even pretend to by familiar with any historical period enough to enter discussions about it. In fact I always hesitate before making analogies between 40k and real life history (specially more modern history), but in this case it was just to apparant to me.

BTT: after some rethinking - maybe making a hidden base inside Ork base? Orks do use slaves and probly aren't to strict in controling them. You can have dramatic scenes aka moral decissions and humoristic ones in interacting with Orks.

I personally hate the fact that so many people get caught up in the "BUT THAT ISN'T WHAT HAPPENED IN -the one historical era they are familiar with- SO THAT CAN'T BE HOW IT IS IN ONLY WAR" mind set.

The opposite is also true: "In -whatever- this happened, so your premise is wrong."

Drawing from the past is good and well, I mean hell, I am a historian - I get it. But sometimes I wanna slam my foot down on the proverbial throat and scream, "Enough is enough. The past doesn't dictate your personal 40k game. Do what you want to do."

Westside.

*Drops Mic*

Edit: Sorry if that seemed like a tirade directed at you, Wincent. It wasn't, but I keep seeing the aforementioned things time and again in "discussions" on this forum and I am still all jacked up from the pre-workout legal crack juice. One love, baby. The Warsaw Uprising would be a sick campaign to run.

Not sure what you are ranting about?

History for me offers an example when I don't know how something would work in 40k and the fluff/raw doesn't provide an answer. Especially since GW have never had an original idea in their entire existance and have based their entire game on historical or literary tropes...

And historical examples of human perfidy, contrariness and outright stupidity usually outweigh anything a GM can come with on his own so it helps design plots etc.

Does that mean things must always follow the historical example? Obviously not. But it provides a possible, maybe even a likely result.

And thus I history...

I thought I was pretty clear that my problem was with people who insist that since something did and/or didn't happen in history then it must/mustn't be allowed in a game.

What you described is obviously not that, so I wasn't referring to you.

Posted the bare bones of the building system in Home Brews.

I ended up using the Rogue Trader ship-building system as the basis to work off of.