Science precludes sacrifice

The hundreds of things as a chaos band you can inflict upon the Imperium, force breeding programs, heretical thoughts, viruses both in thought and real, vivisection, non-reciprocated pleasure, politics. These are all among the many tools that a heretic can use.

My question is do you talk first among your group as to what is acceptable. As a slaneeshi cultist is adding another peasure hole to the body of an imperial general as he's thrown to a band of mutants with an incessant need to fornicate - too much?

Is ripping the clothes off an acolyte and carving profane Khornate symbols across his body and then teleporting him back to be with the rest of his inquisitorial buddies - too much?

Is commandeering a battleship, turning its engines on full and then having it driven into the side of a beleaguered hive city - too much?

What topics do you feel comfortable:
1. being described around the table
2. Not being described (fade to black)
3. Not mentioned at all

An inquiring mind wishes to know.

I was going to try to respond in the same format as your questions to keep things clear and concise but the answers that came to me didn't quite suit it, so here's what I've got:

As long as it suits the campaign and doesn't distract from the narrative to the point of becoming FATAL 40K, I guess it's really just a case of mileage varying based on the group like with any other RPG. I personally wouldn't want the rules for seduction in the Tome of Excess to become little more than constant impromptu sex scenes between my fellow players at the expense of the plot, but otherwise I've always questioned society's casual attitudes about ultraviolence versus the largely squicky response to any sort of sexuality in media and real life alike (even consensual). Moreso in 40K when anything involving Slaanesh and/or Dark Eldar comes into play and all the reader/player/whatever ever gets is the barest of suggestions of what the Prince of Pleasure's servants are up to while somebody's face is getting blown apart in the previous - if not the same - chapter.

Regarding the more violent side of things, well, the Khornate Rites in the same tome I mentioned above allow a character to rip out the skull and spine of a living foe and scream their allegiance to the Blood God, so marking a victim with chaotic runes or using an enemy ship as a weapon during a hive assault only seem appropriate for a campaign involving actual villains rather than Saturday morning cartoon antagonists that don't quite ever do enough to really upset anyone for long. I feel like censoring a campaign loses the impact playing this side of the Long War provides that other, more official sources either can't or won't make use of for the sake of marketability, and I feel as long as the players have made it clear they're comfortable going places the fluff rarely or never does then that's exactly the point of having an RPG format to begin with as opposed to the strictly combat-oriented nature of tabletop wargames.

Is it wrong if i find the idea of the general very amusing?

I'm cool with all of them. Especially the spacehip+ hive combo. The space wolves once did it with "totalynotthedeathstar" and a xenos planet.

Our Gm put the kibosh on the "power armor covered in spikes with dead babies on" idea.

And my slaanesi marine Flavius the exuberant has to keep the pedo remarks to a minimum. As long as i keep his more despicable exploits vague enough then there is no problem however. Flav was present at the siege of Terra, well doing what the Emperors children were doing at that point: rapin the civilians while the rest of the legions fought over the palace.

The siege was way to crowded, man! Dull iron warrior jostling for elbow room with Angrons one trick ponies. Great explosions, epic scenes but we, that is my cohort of the III legion, we went and found something for ourself to do. I remember it well, the small corridors, the tiney hab units, packed with weeping civilians. Just waiting for us to liberate them on the point of our combat knives. Welcoming us as their new masters. The atmosphere there was just so...so intimite.

Also i don't know what it was about hab block 4556D but we rendered them down into some amazing hauciogenics! We did the same with the neighbouring hab towers but we never got it quite as good as those from 4556D.

I was going to try to respond in the same format as your questions to keep things clear and concise but the answers that came to me didn't quite suit it, so here's what I've got:

As long as it suits the campaign and doesn't distract from the narrative to the point of becoming FATAL 40K, I guess it's really just a case of mileage varying based on the group like with any other RPG. I personally wouldn't want the rules for seduction in the Tome of Excess to become little more than constant impromptu sex scenes between my fellow players at the expense of the plot, but otherwise I've always questioned society's casual attitudes about ultraviolence versus the largely squicky response to any sort of sexuality in media and real life alike (even consensual). Moreso in 40K when anything involving Slaanesh and/or Dark Eldar comes into play and all the reader/player/whatever ever gets is the barest of suggestions of what the Prince of Pleasure's servants are up to while somebody's face is getting blown apart in the previous - if not the same - chapter.

Regarding the more violent side of things, well, the Khornate Rites in the same tome I mentioned above allow a character to rip out the skull and spine of a living foe and scream their allegiance to the Blood God, so marking a victim with chaotic runes or using an enemy ship as a weapon during a hive assault only seem appropriate for a campaign involving actual villains rather than Saturday morning cartoon antagonists that don't quite ever do enough to really upset anyone for long. I feel like censoring a campaign loses the impact playing this side of the Long War provides that other, more official sources either can't or won't make use of for the sake of marketability, and I feel as long as the players have made it clear they're comfortable going places the fluff rarely or never does then that's exactly the point of having an RPG format to begin with as opposed to the strictly combat-oriented nature of tabletop wargames.

FATAL 40k. Nice!

I've never been in a situation where this had needed to be discussed or alluded to.

As far as I'm concerned, most anything goes.

To be honest, most villains seem to be depicted as the worst they can be when they do something bad AND sexual; the killing is always the tamest part of the toolkit for an antagonist and unless he does more than that he tends to make all sorts of fans and even arguments for why whatever cause he's behind could be the right one. It's almost always when sex is used as a weapon that the tone of the narrative and indeed the nature of the character changes entirely, and considering that we're talking about a universe where an actual living god was created through excessive hedonism it seems only natural to have that sort of thing be as prevalent for a servant of Slaanesh as a belt made of skulls would be for a Khornate Berzerker.

Truly, Slaanesh is the most poorly represented of the Chaos Gods, and while I can understand at least most of the reasons for that on a financial level it's definitely strange to see folks running into that kind of barrier when playing a private game with other adults where the point is generally to be a bunch of awesomely evil dudes and ladies with different and specific kinds of "badness" to define them rather than just applying blast templates and hoping your codex creep isn't too hard on you at the time.

(Probably unnecessary but I'd like to note that I'm not condoning actual sexual violence or anything similar. As noted elsewhere, that probably wouldn't have even been a thought at all had I just talked about krumpin' dem 'umies.)

Anything goes. Oh, and when ramming a planet with voidship, overloading the ship's warp drive seconds before crash is more effective than just plain ramming, and allows to use raider instead of a battleship with same effect.

In a short game of Black Crusade, a player once tentacleraped a derelict hovercar wreck.

Yup, Slaaneshi Heretek.

Anything goes. Oh, and when ramming a planet with voidship, overloading the ship's warp drive seconds before crash is more effective than just plain ramming, and allows to use raider instead of a battleship with same effect.

*takes notes*

Wait, there's a concept of too much?! This is Black Crusade, it's supposed to be evil and dark. If the players are not prepared for the horrors of daemons then they can go back to playing Fluffy the Unicorn.

Also Fgdsfg for your notes, we already did that and it worked really well. Overloading the reactors of a crashing ship before it hit the water to kill off enemies on board. The resulting impact and explosion from the warp drive caused a tidal wave which wiped out an entire 10 hive levels. Oh how we laughed.

Truly, Slaanesh is the most poorly represented of the Chaos Gods, and while I can understand at least most of the reasons for that on a financial level it's definitely strange to see folks running into that kind of barrier when playing a private game with other adults where the point is generally to be a bunch of awesomely evil dudes and ladies with different and specific kinds of "badness" to define them rather than just applying blast templates and hoping your codex creep isn't too hard on you at the time.

I must disagree and that if you say Slaanesh is under represented this is because you are not opening your mind to all of the ideas that they cover and you are only focusing on one core element of the domain of the Prince of Pleasure. Not all worshippers of Slaanesh appear as leather clad figures with whips etc and as reference if you look through details of the Palace of Pleasure (4th Ed Chaos Daemon Codex) which outlines some of the realms and ideals that they cover there are multiple levels each encompassing a potential sphere of his influence and only one of them is the carnal sexual fetishes. Slaanesh's interests cover other elements such as a desire for power or wealth, obsessive hoarding and accumulation within greed. You could represent this with a character obsessed with acquiring any manner of trinket, item or commodity. The worship of the prince of pleasure also features gluttony and overindulgance and it is not unrealistic for your heretics to encounter the bloated mass of a figure who insists on eating more than he can hold in a 40k equivalent of Mr Creosote*.

Slaanesh covers a desire for power similar to Khorne but his is usually via blood while Slaanesh is by domination. To that end any heretic can represent Slaanesh and this is just people not opening their mind to other ideas.

It's like the assumption that Nurgle only covers death and decay and representing it accordingly when in fact in some of the fluff he actually believes in corruption and decay but also of rebirth and resurrection.

*Monty Python reference, look it up.

None of the big four are underrepresented in fluff, though recent codex editions have done a good deal of "dumbing down"- not only of chaos, but of pretty much everything in 40k.

Slaanesh, though, is severely overrepresented in FFG's material, while others, specifically Khorne and Nurgle, get the short end of the stick.

That said, OT:

Pretty much anything goes as long as it fits the narrative. We generally try not to get too descriptive about various atrocities, because we're not in it for the violence or the sex, we're in it to play our characters, who happen to be a bunch of guardsmen gone chaos. If someone wasted our time on excessive descriptions of gore or **** or whatever might happen, they'd probably get some very, very odd looks, because, "hey buddy, you can jack off at home, kay?". In other words, our chars started more or less normal, if criminal, and anything borderline stems from the mesh of their personality, which is...mostly predictable.

'course, sometimes you got to just turn a giant lizard into chunky salsa with a rocket launcher

In any setting where acute unpleasantness abounds, I think it's very important to have a frank discussion about such matters before the campaign even begins in order to make sure that everyone is on the same page about what is acceptable. In a game like Black Crusade which is more or less built on acute unpleasantness, I think this becomes even more important.

As for me personally, I play with mature adults and there really aren't any topics that I'm uncomfortable with. The only time I ever express displeasure with PC actions is if they start acting against each other (unless it's mutual and both players are cool with it).

>> The only time I ever express displeasure with PC actions is if they start acting against each other

And it is safe to say Black Crusade is built on player character conflict as well.

>> The only time I ever express displeasure with PC actions is if they start acting against each other

And it is safe to say Black Crusade is built on player character conflict as well.

I was making a general statement... to which I added the caveat "unless it's mutual and both players are cool with it."

Truly, Slaanesh is the most poorly represented of the Chaos Gods, and while I can understand at least most of the reasons for that on a financial level it's definitely strange to see folks running into that kind of barrier when playing a private game with other adults where the point is generally to be a bunch of awesomely evil dudes and ladies with different and specific kinds of "badness" to define them rather than just applying blast templates and hoping your codex creep isn't too hard on you at the time.

I must disagree and that if you say Slaanesh is under represented this is because you are not opening your mind to all of the ideas that they cover and you are only focusing on one core element of the domain of the Prince of Pleasure. Not all worshippers of Slaanesh appear as leather clad figures with whips etc and as reference if you look through details of the Palace of Pleasure (4th Ed Chaos Daemon Codex) which outlines some of the realms and ideals that they cover there are multiple levels each encompassing a potential sphere of his influence and only one of them is the carnal sexual fetishes. Slaanesh's interests cover other elements such as a desire for power or wealth, obsessive hoarding and accumulation within greed. You could represent this with a character obsessed with acquiring any manner of trinket, item or commodity. The worship of the prince of pleasure also features gluttony and overindulgance and it is not unrealistic for your heretics to encounter the bloated mass of a figure who insists on eating more than he can hold in a 40k equivalent of Mr Creosote*.

Slaanesh covers a desire for power similar to Khorne but his is usually via blood while Slaanesh is by domination. To that end any heretic can represent Slaanesh and this is just people not opening their mind to other ideas.

It's like the assumption that Nurgle only covers death and decay and representing it accordingly when in fact in some of the fluff he actually believes in corruption and decay but also of rebirth and resurrection.

*Monty Python reference, look it up.

None of the big four are underrepresented in fluff, though recent codex editions have done a good deal of "dumbing down"- not only of chaos, but of pretty much everything in 40k.

Slaanesh, though, is severely overrepresented in FFG's material, while others, specifically Khorne and Nurgle, get the short end of the stick.

I was referring to what aspect of Slaanesh the Black Library, codices and other sources of lore alike tends to focus on and where/what they specifically don't - as it relates to this particular conversation - rather than implying such a narrow aspect of the character was the only/most important one to cover, and either way I'd definitely agree that Nurgle in particular got covered much more poorly in Black Crusade alone given how the Tome of Decay became more about what could have been the Chaos Undivided book rather than as specialized as, say, the Tome of Fate was for Tzeentch. Let's keep those minds as open as suggested to the context in which things are stated (and not assume Monty Python references are lost on anyone playing a tabletop game), although I'll be a little more precise with my wording in the future if I can.

Otherwise, yes, it's important to outline what level of inter-party conflict is possible and/or desired without mangling the intended storyline (if there is one at all). A violent TPK out of nowhere is entirely fitting for the lovely folks in Black Crusade and certainly makes for a campaign atmosphere not as easily found in Only War or Deathwatch, but as mentioned earlier there's usually a point where "and then everyone killed each other, gg" becomes detrimental to the group rather than one of its favorably chaotic aspects. It as much as any adult themes warrants a decent amount of discussion amongst the players in order to build a game that really enables them to enjoy their characters as much as whatever story the GM is trying to tell.

Apologies, I wasn't intending to be overly harsh with my last outburst. I thought you were suggesting that as players nobody considers it. I also did find the Tome of Decay to be somewhat lacking in the Nurgle aligned content and there were a number of very good concepts which could have been included such as the Garden of Nurgle or the goddess Isha and Nurgles torment of her.

Apologies, I wasn't intending to be overly harsh with my last outburst. I thought you were suggesting that as players nobody considers it. I also did find the Tome of Decay to be somewhat lacking in the Nurgle aligned content and there were a number of very good concepts which could have been included such as the Garden of Nurgle or the goddess Isha and Nurgles torment of her.

No worries at all, my initial statement was broader than I intended it to be and it gave me a chance to rephrase it in a way that better suited the conversation at hand (although I'm very happy to reach a clearer and more positive understanding, all the same). I'm guessing the mixed format probably involved schedule/budget/license constraints behind the scenes, but I think just about everyone would've preferred four truly specialized tomes and then one centered around options for more advanced Chaos Undivided characters, especially with situations like the Veteran of the Long War arguably being able to do the Chosen's job better than the Chosen does.

I'd actually forgotten about Isha almost entirely due to just how long it has been since I'd seen anything related to that storyline and I'm disappointed the writers for Black Crusade were unable to make use of it and similar material to provide more specific goals, mindsets and backgrounds for characters and NPCs aligned to the Lord of Decay. It would've done a lot to outline original ideas about how to do something creative and appropriately terrible in a campaign involving Nurglites beyond just giving some hive city's inhabitants an itch that talks (in a jovial and comforting way, of course ), and therefore more for us to discuss here.

Either way, happy holidays to my fellow heretics!

We've done really weird stuff on our campaign. Last session, we had the two lines

• "Roll unarmed damage against your mother"
• "You may add two Best-Quality Parents to your gear list."

Our GM just told us we were horrible people and gave me Corruption for causing that.

But as for disturbing themes, it's never come up yet. Generally, we do horrible stuff and get Corruption. Although I expect sex occurs, considering our Khornate Renegade is happily married.

A happily married khornate renegade...I picture this in my head:

Khornate berzerker: "Honey I'm home!"

Wife: "Did you wipe your feet on the mat? You are tracking blood all across my freshly scrubbed floor!"

Berzerker: " burnmaimkillburnmaimkill"

Wife: "Don't talk back to me, you big oaf! I'm in a bad mood! I got my period!"

Berzerker: "Yay! Blood for the blood god!"

Actually, an insane serial murderer secretly worshiping a daemonic entity, but pretending to be a loving husband is unnervingly awesome.

Actually, an insane serial murderer secretly worshiping a daemonic entity, but pretending to be a loving husband is unnervingly awesome.

Ah but is he pretending to be a loving husband or is he in fact a genuinely loving husband that just happens to be an insane serial murderer secretly worshiping a daemonic entity?

Either way sounds good

Actually, an insane serial murderer secretly worshiping a daemonic entity, but pretending to be a loving husband is unnervingly awesome.

Ah but is he pretending to be a loving husband or is he in fact a genuinely loving husband that just happens to be an insane serial murderer secretly worshiping a date emonic entity?

Though their relationship is even weirder, really. Faye met her husband before she had any major mutations. She might have had wings, but I'm unsure on that. However, she eventually mutated rather heavily, gaining pseudo-daemonhood, warp-eyes, mutton chops and so on, but love and bloody murder apparently transcends mutation. Then, she got promoted to Herald of Khorne, and one of her powers is to for all intents and purposes be the sweet, sort of cute Sororitas Initiate she was before all this crap, until the metaphorical **** hits the fan. I believe the term is Personification of War or something, sort of Illusion of Normalcy on steroids.

I have no idea how the sex would work out with that in mind, but I imagine it's probably hard and loud.

Edit: Oh, and there's been a serious discussion about how to further the Haarlock family now that Faye is a daemon, but our GM has assured us that "The Warp finds a way".

Actually, an insane serial murderer secretly worshiping a daemonic entity, but pretending to be a loving husband is unnervingly awesome.

I always thought the idea of a proper psychopath worshipping the chaos gods was a bit odd. I mean, I can see him trying, if only to benefit himself, and I guess that the forces of chaos would appreciate the sacrifices, but can that which has no emotions truly ever be one with chaos?

Actually, an insane serial murderer secretly worshiping a daemonic entity, but pretending to be a loving husband is unnervingly awesome.

I always thought the idea of a proper psychopath worshipping the chaos gods was a bit odd. I mean, I can see him trying, if only to benefit himself, and I guess that the forces of chaos would appreciate the sacrifices, but can that which has no emotions truly ever be one with chaos?

Really depends on how you define "emotion" and how it's applicable to other creatures who may turn to chaos, up to and including A.I.s and orkz. Totally not my field, but, it's an interesting thought experiment at least.

We've done really weird stuff on our campaign. Last session, we had the two lines

• "Roll unarmed damage against your mother"
• "You may add two Best-Quality Parents to your gear list."

Our GM just told us we were horrible people and gave me Corruption for causing that.

But as for disturbing themes, it's never come up yet. Generally, we do horrible stuff and get Corruption. Although I expect sex occurs, considering our Khornate Renegade is happily married.

Marriage, the one thing that would have Khorne himself scared. If you imagine the Blood God, imagine what matron ends up keeping him in line.