I start a thread about a potentially fun modification and SH*T GETS CRAZY.

Welcome to the internet.

I start a thread about a potentially fun modification and SH*T GETS CRAZY.

That's your fault, Dak. You've always been overeager and naive. Look where it got you.

*This is a reference to Empire Strikes Back. No feelings were meant to be harmed in the making of this comment.

I love A-Wings. I don't play at a competitive level but when I use them with my friends I'm able to have a lot of success. I don't believe in a game where everything is equally good. That's not fun. I like the thematic Star Wars game. An A-Wing is super fast but weak, just like in the movies/games. It has a specific role. It should NOT be "fixed" so that it's prepared to face any type of opponent, because it shouldn't be able to face any type of opponent. It's an A-wing.

I start a thread about a potentially fun modification and SH*T GETS CRAZY.

Trouble maker...

I love A-Wings. I don't play at a competitive level but when I use them with my friends I'm able to have a lot of success. I don't believe in a game where everything is equally good. That's not fun. I like the thematic Star Wars game. An A-Wing is super fast but weak, just like in the movies/games. It has a specific role. It should NOT be "fixed" so that it's prepared to face any type of opponent, because it shouldn't be able to face any type of opponent. It's an A-wing.

Yeah DAT!!!

OK so whether or not you believe Autothrusters will make A-Wings competitive they are still fun ships to fly and at the very least will be more survivable moving forward.

That being said has anyone used Arvel w/ Intimidation yet?

Honestly with the new thrusters mod and rebel aces. A wings are ok however the perceived weakness in the meta is directly tied to why the fat falcon build is broken.

The meta is overloaded with turrets.

Plus for falcon negative for awings

There is plenty of ways to support a ship such as a falcon to gurauntee at least 1evade with or without defensive rerolls. Making more red dice significantly stronger then more green.

Plus for falcon negative for awing.

You have a ship with a ton of staying power to a ship that's not very resilant. It's 2 red die will have a hard time hurting the falcons 1 evade. While a falcons 3 red turreted die has a much easier time hurting the awings 3 green defensive die.

I am not trying g to compare the two ships directly because obviously the cost is way off. But my point is what makes the awing perceived as weak is why the opposite makes the falcon strong.

I honestly thought the awing was going to get a rear atk mod since it is a lore based mod however the cost reduction was great and the auto thrusters are great for them. The double pilot talent I am sure will come together someday where some ridiculous combo will make the awings much better offensively. But compared to a lot of other ships the awing is still much better. Advanced, bombers, hwk, could all use a good tweak first.

Hell, running all A-wings is fun. I consider it a challenge to defeat your opponent with a list like this. Sweet when you win, fun even if you lose.

Can someone break it down for me exactly how TIEs are just better than A-Wings? Howlrunner is a pretty cool TIE, re-rolls his buddy's dice and doesn't afraid of anything but I don't see how that changes the entire playing field for the two ships as a whole. I mean,for a measly 3 extra points (Academy/Prototype) you get an extra health point, a better dial, and Lock-On.

6 A-Wings with the odd Green Squadron/Predator or Outmaneuver thrown in

vs

8 TIE/lns (7 if you mix in a few unique pilots)

It seems a pretty fair fight, has anyone ever fought a Kursk-like shenanigan-fest like this?

3 "measly" points buys you PTL, Predator, Advanced sensors etc. and is often the difference between ships (rookie pilot --> FCS Blue Squadron, for example) that are far more significant than just +1 green, shields, better dial, and boost.

Also, it's not 3 "measly" points, it's 3 points per A-wing. the investment is significant.

Swarm vs Swarm, I have no idea, though. 2 dice ships don't like shooting at 3 agility (my money's on the swarm that gets re-rolls, though)

awings just don't fulfill the role they were originally given anymore and still have an identity crisis. I think Jake and Gemmer can make a splash but where do they fit? Lots and lots of 20-25pt options for the rebel scum.

I love awings...love em. But they just don't scare anyone.

So your money's on the A-Wings then? The A-Wings have two re-rolls organic to the ships that carry them and the TIEs have only one (on a more fragile ship) that can only be used conditional to having another ship in Range 1.

it doesnt matter how amazingly you can modify your 2 atk dice when you totally cant touch say C3P0 evade or even 3 agi targets + focus.

TIEs are better simply because for that same 24-ish points you could have 2 TIEs instead of 1 A, and you now can attack 2 times and have better positioning and blahblahblah advantages that come when you simply fly 2 ships instead of 1

You've got to focus, Trinity. A-Wings are only slightly more expensive than TIEs, not twice as expensive. Precisely 7/6ths as expensive assuming mild upgrades/unique pilots.

The truly fat falcons that can exist kinda nail in the coffin the 2 att ships. 3-5 auto evade? Probably not the most competitive load out but the fact that it can happen (and will ruin a lot of casual games in the mean time) makes 2 dice a liability. Add in new Super Fel and some other stuff and 2 dice only start to cut it when you've got 4 of em.

So your money's on the A-Wings then? The A-Wings have two re-rolls organic to the ships that carry them and the TIEs have only one (on a more fragile ship) that can only be used conditional to having another ship in Range 1.

should've specified

"my money's on the superior re-roll mechanic that allows the swarm to take offense/defensive/maneuvering action while still benefiting from the additional offensive punch"

Re-roll + Focus is going to beat naked target lock all day long

Honestly, never found target-locks to be very useful use of action on 2 dice ships. 99% of the time, I want to be focus for both the offense and defense. The 1% of the time is when it's within range 1 of something that needs to die or no enemy ship has the target-locker in its arc. Once we get to 3-4 dice, I find them to be invaluable.

You've got to focus, Trinity. A-Wings are only slightly more expensive than TIEs, not twice as expensive. Precisely 7/6ths as expensive assuming mild upgrades/unique pilots.

"Slightly more expensive" is a full ship's difference once you get to 4 ships. That's 5 attacks to 4, and when you're trying to stack weak attacks that matters. It's an extra ship you can block with, an extra ship that gets to keep its focus for attacking back, etc. And if you add "mild upgrades/unique pilots" it quickly becomes a 2-ship difference, but each A-wing is still only bringing two guns to the fight.

The extra goodies that the A-wing brings compared to a basic TIE aren't all that awesome. Target Lock is equivalent offensively but doesn't provide the defense that Focus does, so isn't a huge advantage. Boost is a less effective repositioning tool than Barrel Roll, especially for formations. The extra durability is definitely there - but the dial isn't really all that much better... The TIE has all the same maneuvers available, the only difference is that the A-wing has more green, and without something to exploit on a self-stress (like PtL) that's not all that huge a difference.

Is that worth 3 points? Almost certainly. Is it worth 12? That's harder, and it's what you're paying for the numbers you need to make up for that 4 attack.

And yes, Howlrunner really does make that big a difference.

Maybe Im playing a different game than some of you but ptl and outmanoeuvre are absolutely badass in a's! In our last tourney at the local store Jake one shotted turr with stealth at range 1 and in my final game at the top table single handedly ate lando!

Well i ask myself why not just give it a real rear arc for 2 points. What the OP asked was misunderstood. He meant the width of the base as firing arc.

It would be a very interesting ship to fly like that. They would just need to rerelease the cardboard bases with optional rear arc and the upgrade card, nothing else (maybe together with new advanced bases and some errata cards... Just saying)

The A-wing would be a good choice with avrear arc at its original cost with chardaan refit! At 17 points with rear arc i would take it over a Z-95 in some lists honestly!

Maybe Im playing a different game than some of you but ptl and outmanoeuvre are absolutely badass in a's! In our last tourney at the local store Jake one shotted turr with stealth at range 1...

Any ship that hits a 4% shot is going to be pretty badass. A Rookie X-wing actually has a slightly better chance of making that shot than an A-wing with Outmaneuver.

Off course, but my rookie was busy one shotting whisper with some help from roark XD.

The point is, Jake is always very useful in my lists either by throwing my opponent off balance by out manoeuvring his squad and forcing him to make a though decision or by filling a niche that other rebel ships can't provide. He never disappoints me.

Off course, but my rookie was busy one shotting whisper with some help from roark XD.

The point is, Jake is always very useful in my lists either by throwing my opponent off balance by out manoeuvring his squad and forcing him to make a though decision or by filling a niche that other rebel ships can't provide. He never disappoints me.

it doesnt matter how amazingly you can modify your 2 atk dice when you totally cant touch say C3P0 evade or even 3 agi targets + focus.

Slight exaggeration. 2 Atk ships can hit ships with 3 Agi, even with Focus. Yes, it can be a long tough slug fight (see TIE Swarm vs TIE Swarm), but things will die eventually. And the Falcon at that point isn't untouchable. You just have to get up to range 1. Yes, you could die, but you also might not. And at that point, you sort of have to take the initiative to kill stuff, since you are likely losing. These one on one comparisons are pretty bad, especially since you are likely not taking into account how you got into such a position.

As far as TIEs vs A-Wings, I think this would be a good matchup vs a 7 TIE Howlrunner swarm:

Green Squadron Pilot (19) x5
Predator (3)
Chardaan Refit (-2)

Total: 100

The GSPs move after and shoot before the Academies. They are more durable and can boost out of arcs. They are also somewhat immune to blocking due to Predator. With Predator, they can use their entire dial (which is better than the TIEs). Would be a fun match to watch.

I play a six A swarm from time to time that is a ton of fun. And it is downright brutal. Played it in a tournament last week and the last two matches were against two of the best players in the area. The first was against a Phantom list, which is supposed to be the hard counter to swarms, and I only lost two ships. The second was a nasty Krassis, doom shuttle, Fel list that I got a modified loss at time. He had one health left on his Krassis and his dice were absolutely out of control, I may have lost but it was **** close and practically an act of God.

My point is that the A-wing is a high risk high reward ship. When you get used to it and spend some time with it it can be truly nasty. My local competitors have come to fear my A-wings, because I took the time to make them good. And they only get better with each wave.

As far as TIEs vs A-Wings, I think this would be a good matchup vs a 7 TIE Howlrunner swarm:

Green Squadron Pilot (19) x5

Predator (3)

Chardaan Refit (-2)

Total: 100

The GSPs move after and shoot before the Academies. They are more durable and can boost out of arcs. They are also somewhat immune to blocking due to Predator. With Predator, they can use their entire dial (which is better than the TIEs). Would be a fun match to watch.

I'd probably mix in outmaneuver in there a bit, too.