I was reading a thread posted earlier about Autothrusters on A-Wings, and the resounding commentary from that thread still focused on the fact that A-Wings are not a viable ship to field competitively. Even the Chardaaniest, Autothrusteriest A's don't seem attractive to most, with many pushing for a re-release of a ship that has already gone through an attempted fix.

I use A-Wings a lot, and while they aren't the most lethal ship, there are ways to make them dangerous. However, if there was one way to fix them, here's a thought for a modification card that would fit cinematically and capture what is one of the most intriguing features of the A-Wing.

From Wookieepedia's A-Wing article:

The slight A-wing's wing-mounted laser cannons could rotate up and down sixty degrees for greater fire control. Some of those designs even had their guns modified to swivel in a complete 360-degree arc, thus providing a nasty surprise to any chasing fighter.

The Card:

Swivel Mount (Modification, A-Wing Only, 2 Points) - During the combat phase, you may spend a focus token to perform an attack on a ship directly behind you. During this attack, you may change one focus result to a hit result.

This would take the already slippery A-Wing and give it an even greater degree of unpredictability. I see some issues with the card text, but I'm trying to avoid a full-on re-release of the ship base cards. The desired interpretation is that you use the range ruler along the back of the ship. There's no arc, but the range is the full area behind that you would get sliding the range against the back of the ship.

Thoughts? I don't know what this would release with, but I thought it would be a way to give more flexibility to a fighter that many seem to have issue with still. With a green five straight, the ability to zip past an incoming fighter and deliver a surprise shot (even if it IS two reds) could be quite fun.

It would be incredibly difficult to measure "Directly Behind" without a previously printed firing arc.

also, the main issue is that nobody is willing to spend more than 25pts on any ship that has a base 2 attack, regardless of how good it is. Simple as that.

also, the main issue is that nobody is willing to spend more than 25pts on any ship that has a base 2 attack, regardless of how good it is. Simple as that.

I've seen Tycho Celchu taken with upgrades, and quite a lot. He has 2 base attack, and starts at 26 pts.

also, the main issue is that nobody is willing to spend more than 25pts on any ship that has a base 2 attack, regardless of how good it is. Simple as that.

Even if that ship had a rear (although limited) firing arc?

also, the main issue is that nobody is willing to spend more than 25pts on any ship that has a base 2 attack, regardless of how good it is. Simple as that.

I've seen Tycho Celchu taken with upgrades, and quite a lot. He has 2 base attack, and starts at 26 pts.

I fly Tycho as he's an able Phantom hunter with VI and Proton Rockets. But with the "swivel" as I outlined above, you could get a Green Squadron Pilot, A-Wing Test Pilot version, with PTL, Predator, Chardaan and Swivel for 25 pts.

also, the main issue is that nobody is willing to spend more than 25pts on any ship that has a base 2 attack, regardless of how good it is. Simple as that.

I've seen Tycho Celchu taken with upgrades, and quite a lot. He has 2 base attack, and starts at 26 pts.

People taking a ship and a ship being competitive are two different things. Also, thankfully in x-wings you can still play an interesting game even with a sub optimal list.

also, the main issue is that nobody is willing to spend more than 25pts on any ship that has a base 2 attack, regardless of how good it is. Simple as that.

Even if that ship had a rear (although limited) firing arc?

let me put it this way. If we assume range 2, I have problems even trying to hit a focused TIE which is half my pointage.

It would be incredibly difficult to measure "Directly Behind" without a previously printed firing arc.

It's actually incredibly easy if you cheat a little bit. Simply pick up the ship's cardboard chit on the plastic base and turn it around to face backwards. You don't even have to take the ship off the base.

Some people are just never happy. The A-wing has gotten a quite frankly awesome fix and yet 'it's not competitive enough'. When is it good enough I ask? When it costs two points and has a special rule that let's you win automatically? Seriously, people get off your high meta horses and smell the air. It's far sweeter than the doom and gloom you preach.

Backwards firing A-wings is a silly mental image. At least the Firespray is a multi-crewed large ship.

When it costs two points and has a special rule that let's you win automatically?

Two points for a card that makes you win instantly?

Overcosted POS.

Some people are just never happy. The A-wing has gotten a quite frankly awesome fix and yet 'it's not competitive enough'. When is it good enough I ask? When it costs two points and has a special rule that let's you win automatically? Seriously, people get off your high meta horses and smell the air. It's far sweeter than the doom and gloom you preach.

would I fly an Awing? Yes

would I fly an Awing in a competition? definite no.

would I like to see enough changes made to the Awing so that I would want to fly it in a competition? definite yes

simple as that, don't over-complicate stuff.

Some people are just never happy. The A-wing has gotten a quite frankly awesome fix and yet 'it's not competitive enough'. When is it good enough I ask? When it costs two points and has a special rule that let's you win automatically? Seriously, people get off your high meta horses and smell the air. It's far sweeter than the doom and gloom you preach.

would I fly an Awing? Yes

would I fly an Awing in a competition? definite no.

would I like to see enough changes made to the Awing so that I would want to fly it in a competition? definite yes

simple as that, don't over-complicate stuff.

You are asking for more changes for an already changed ship while asking me not to over-complicate stuff? I quite frankly don't want to start a big forum war but you have to realise how little sense your statement makes?

A-wings suffer from the same issue as interceptors: high prevalence of turretbricks. That just got majorly shaken up by Autothrusters.

also, the main issue is that nobody is willing to spend more than 25pts on any ship that has a base 2 attack, regardless of how good it is. Simple as that.

Going with this, too

I mean, I love the hell out of rocket Jake (Test with VI + PTL, rockets = 31 points) and he is a premier phantom hunter that, imo, smacks the hell out of Vader.

After he fires off his rockets he's still a pain with focus --> boost/b-roll --> TL, but sometimes he just flies like a *insert buzzing noises here*. More of a pest than an actual threat, you know? Still, he's great fun.

I also learned some grudging respect for Predator Refit Gemmer in a Sunday tournie. The guy hits decently and, more importantly, is a massive pain in the ass to kill for a very decent price of 23. With thrusters, he might compete w/Tarn + R7 for the "cheap and incredibly annoyingly durable whilst being surprisingly accurate sometimes" slot, definitely a breath of fresh air from all the FCS Blues.

Other than that, though, I would honestly reach for Z-95s every time no question. They're not as fast, but they leave far more points open for more sustained damage options and they themselves bring more dice per points.

I REALLY don't think A-wings need re-releases or any more global changes. It's just that, like most ships, their first ex-pac pilots need some serious looking into imo (see also Y-wings lacking an EPT and Ten Numb in general). Poor Arvil and Tycho seem really interesting, but their costs do not justify gimmicks supported by only two dice. Hell, I can't even justify Jakes without his rockets, so when he flubs his prot-rockets (yes, even with focus + TL...stupid dice) he really puts me in an awkward position.

Aces did more than enough to make them interesting, it's just that most of them lag behiind (and, while the proto-type is noticeably better than a Bandit and w/refit is costed appropriately, I personally just prefer cheaper ships to beef out the rest of the list)

Some people are just never happy. The A-wing has gotten a quite frankly awesome fix and yet 'it's not competitive enough'. When is it good enough I ask? When it costs two points and has a special rule that let's you win automatically? Seriously, people get off your high meta horses and smell the air. It's far sweeter than the doom and gloom you preach.

would I fly an Awing? Yes

would I fly an Awing in a competition? definite no.

would I like to see enough changes made to the Awing so that I would want to fly it in a competition? definite yes

simple as that, don't over-complicate stuff.

You are asking for more changes for an already changed ship while asking me not to over-complicate stuff? I quite frankly don't want to start a big forum war but you have to realise how little sense your statement makes?

well please go ahead and field the Awing in a major Xwing tournament and prove the internet wrong. Many other players have proven their own points in a similar fashion, from the shift of TIE swarms to 4ship rebels during the wave 2 wave 3 days, to PTL Recon Spec Firesprays, to our current Worlds where there's non falcon non ACD phantom lists making into top 8.

My point is simply that I do not want to use the Awing in a competitive environment simply because it isnt good enough. I don't particularly care about how they are going to make it good enough. This is the entire point I'm trying to make. FFG could try to tack on multiple bandaids (like what they are doing now), or revamp the entire ship, or whatever, that isn't the point at all. The point is making it good enough to play competitively.

TL;DR I am NOT making any references to the specific changes that has been done, be it chardaan or new pilots or A wing test pilot or new missiles or whatever. I am ONLY refering to the wanting of the Awing being made more appealing to use. that is all. I am not even "hey please change the Awing", they could change all the other ships or the game mechanics or whatever. End of the day, the ideal situation would be "I want to use the Awing in a competition". That's it. The actual mechanics / changes? None of my business whatsoever, I dont care about the specifics. Don't over-complicate things.

EDIT: let's make it even easier.

Why do you want to fly a falcon in a tournament? because it is strong.

Why do you not want to fly a TIEadv in a tournament? because it isnt strong.

Why do you not want to fly the Awing in a tournament? because it isnt strong.

What can be done to make me want to fly the Awing in a tournament? make it strong.

I feel that far too many people are way focused on what's 'good enough' or 'competitive'. How many of us here are actually playing at the level where it matters? I'm fairly certain that for all but the world champs it doesn't make any difference.

Red vs Blue games are fun because both Red and Blue has equal chances of winning. If Blue is stronger than Red, the game ceases to be fun for both parties.

now, substitute "Awing lovers" for "Red" and say, "TIE interceptor lovers" for "Blue"

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Look at all the complaints about falcon OP or phantom OP or TIEadv **** or whatever, a large majority of them stem from casual games. "help, my playgroup Rebels barely win against Imperials, what should I do" or "help my brother's list is kicking my ass and I cant seem to win".

Most of these "balance" issues have been fixed by explaining to the players what went wrong, what they could do better, etc. But this could only happen because the game is balanced, ie. when both sides are flying perfectly and employing the perfect tactics and are rolling the perfect average dice results, both sides have a perfectly equal chance of winning. If everything else is perfect and the ship itself arent, then the game would become skewed towards either Red or Blue. At the "competitive" level, all these other factors are supposedly at the same level already, so it really boils down to the ship itself, is it balanced against other ships?

and once this balance is acheived, we can come back to these complains about the game, and say "look the ship is fine, you problem is this this this this"

unfortunately, right now, the problem is simply that the Awing isnt strong enough. So back to the Red vs Blue thing, even if they did everything else exactly on par with each other, the Awing player loses out simply because the Awing itself is already losing out.


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Ultimately, Xwing is a competitive skill (and luck based) game, so if you are getting your butt kicked, you want to leave knowing that it is because your opponent is more skilled than you, not because he uses a better ship (or his rolling is on a hot streak). It is what makes this game so addictive for so many players, to make them come back after losing and losing and losing and losing, so that they can improve their skills, and finally start winning because of it.

Why do you want to fly a falcon in a tournament? because it is strong.

Why do you not want to fly a TIEadv in a tournament? because it isnt strong.

Why do you not want to fly the Awing in a tournament? because it isnt strong.

What can be done to make me want to fly the Awing in a tournament? make it strong.

I don't use Falcons, don't even own one. But yes, admittedly people tend to use it due to its strength. The TIE Adv is broken so yes, few people use it. However it's not really a fair comparison to the A-wing which might possibly be one point too expensive (and I feel that it isn't) while the TIE adv is probably four points too expensive. Basically we are talking about such small differences between 'good enough' and 'bad' that it just isn't noticeable.

An A-wing is a flanker and a finisher. It follows the heavy hitters and cleans up the leftovers they leave behind. If you joust with your A-wings and wonder why they don't do enough damage, there's no more tactical understanding I can impart other than don't joust with an A-wing.

What's the word in German... Flankenzie! Flankenzie!...

Basically we are talking about such small differences between 'good enough' and 'bad' that it just isn't noticeable.

look at the rookie Xwing at 21 points. Just that 1 extra point means that you can only have a maximum of 4 Xwings in 100pt, not 5 Xwings.

unfortunately, in this game, even 1 point has a very large impact on game balance. Think about all the times when you are happily crafting that perfect list only to realize that you are short of that 1-2 point.

Nothing can ever be perfectly balanced and I come from a background of almost 20 years of Warhammer so I know how damned UN-balanced a game can get. I feel that X-wing is far more balanced than most games and that most of these extremely small (and often questionable) balance issues it supposedly has are neglectable. 1 point will not be the end of life as we know it.

Edit: Unless, you are a top level player with a shot at the world champion title, then it MIGHT make a difference.

15 point A-wing is very, very competitive. If I have the points, I will use it over a z-95 every time.

I wouldn't plan any trophy a acceptance speeches running all A-wings, however they will surprise you more often than they disappoint.

Recent use of Green squadron pilots with test pilot titles with predator and outmanuever.

Awings have had enough love for now. Are they super competitors? No. Are they competitive in the right pilots hands? Yes.