The TIE advanced is pretty much an A-wing with an extra hull point and a vastly inferior dial.

And A-wing with Hull Upgrade is still cheaper.

The TIE advanced is pretty much an A-wing with an extra hull point and a vastly inferior dial.

And A-wing with Hull Upgrade is still cheaper.

Yup...

A TIE Advanced is exactly an X-wing with the firepower and defense stats swapped, more actions and less mods. Oh yeah, and you nudge the straight bits on the dial all up by one.

Give it a title that costs 0 points and raises its agility value to 4 and adds a sensor upgrade slot to it for PS8 pilots and below. Then I believe its expected number of agility rolled should be the same as the expected number of damage rolled by a 3-attack X-Wing (1.5), making its cost parity with X-Wings make more sense. It also will have a sensor slot, which gives it something approaching parity with the X-Wing's astromech slot.

This also would make the TIE Advanced a pretty unique ship in the game.

Interesting idea Danthrax. I'm not sure the Adv. needs to be harder to hit, I think it needs to hit harder or at least more consistently.

It's one of those conundrums of how does it become game viable without becoming a "new ship" not in keeping with the canon or becoming OP...

I wouldn't count too much on a single upgrade fixing what's wrong with the Advanced... Not unless it's a 0 point title that borders on being broken... And also can't be taken by Vader.

Oh thats easy. A title with 'Tie Advanced only', with the clarification that Vader flies an Advanced X1, so he can't use it.

I wouldn't count too much on a single upgrade fixing what's wrong with the Advanced... Not unless it's a 0 point title that borders on being broken... And also can't be taken by Vader.

Oh thats easy. A title with 'Tie Advanced only', with the clarification that Vader flies an Advanced X1, so he can't use it.

So, what dial does Vader use then?

So, what dial does Vader use then?

Err... The one he always used?

Interesting idea Danthrax. I'm not sure the Adv. needs to be harder to hit, I think it needs to hit harder or at least more consistently.

It's one of those conundrums of how does it become game viable without becoming a "new ship" not in keeping with the canon or becoming OP...

Yeah, the usual problem about the Advanced that people point to is that it doesn't have enough attack. But the Advanced clearly was designed to be the antithesis of the X-Wing — more defensive, less offensive, but identical in cost. The problem is that the original designers didn't go far enough with that idea. They also ignored the utility of the astromech slot that the TIE Advanced is locked out of. So my proposed title fixes both those things.

As pointed out the Tie Advanced is an older ship than other Tie variants such as the Phantom, Defender, Interceptor etc, and as such it shouldn't be be better or even approaching as good.. However it should probably be cheaper, and so i'd suggest the easiest fix for it would be something similar to the Chardan Refit A-Wing's can take - a negative points Title, or even a modification (in which case it should be even more negatively costed as you're sacrificing a modification)

Soontir with PTL is not better than Vader. If you give him Targetting Computer, he has a shieldpoint less for 36 points. If you give him shield and hull upgrade, he is still weaker and has less offense for 37 points - max 3 dice with focus, compared to Vader, Engine Upgrade, Expose for 37 points. Plus Soontir has to clear a stress each round for PTL, which is a handicap compared to Vader even considered the Interceptor's dial has a lot of green. Proton rockets on a Vader with Expose is wasted, as you pay 3 points for a one shot extra red dice, because Proton Rockets have a range of 1 so you get 5 red dice compared to 4 for Expose and close range.

Maybe a 0-point title or modification that gives the Advanced some improvement in maneuverability similar to Navigator -- a bearing or speed change you can choose to do after you reveal your dial. I'm thinking that one way to make the Advanced more formidable is to give it a better chance of getting into Range 1 from surprising angles.

So, what dial does Vader use then?

Err... The one he always used?

You mean the dial that can only be used by the TIE Advanced? I mean, you can't have it both ways. You have to seperate the Advanced and x1 for all things, or you make them the same ship.

IT WAS THE DARK SIDE...

VADER COULD OF BEEN IN A FLYING MILK CRATE, AND HE WOULD OF STILL KILLED EVERYBODY.

:lol:

So, what dial does Vader use then?

Err... The one he always used?

You mean the dial that can only be used by the TIE Advanced? I mean, you can't have it both ways. You have to seperate the Advanced and x1 for all things, or you make them the same ship.

No, I can have it both ways. Sorry.

EDIT: In case you can't see how there's clearly a difference between a title and a ship having a different dial, take a look at your 'Darth Vader' card. See what it says? that's right! 'Tie Advanced X1'. What's that you say? the Tie Advanced uses the same dial as the X1? So maybe the addition of a title wouldn't change that? AHA! but what about all the existing titles in the game, that were introduced and FFG printed a unique set of dials for? The BTL-A4 and the Royal Guard Interceptor have their own unique dials dontcha know! Oh wait.

No, I can have it both ways. Sorry.

You can't really just call Vader's ship a X1 and then make it ineligible for the upgrade, the S&V pilots can use the Slave 1 title for example.

So any upgrade to the Advanced has to take Vader into account. Unless they do something like limit to only pilot skill 8 or lower.

Give it a title that costs 0 points and raises its agility value to 4 and adds a sensor upgrade slot to it for PS8 pilots and below. Then I believe its expected number of agility rolled should be the same as the expected number of damage rolled by a 3-attack X-Wing (1.5), making its cost parity with X-Wings make more sense. It also will have a sensor slot, which gives it something approaching parity with the X-Wing's astromech slot.

This also would make the TIE Advanced a pretty unique ship in the game.

With that title, an Advanced with Sensor Jammer and Stealth Device would be nigh impossible to hit at range 3. Heck at any range it would be hard to get off the table.

I doubt you will ever see a sensor slot of the Tie Advanced. Accuracy Corrector has pretty much crushed that idea. I would be surprised if they added a sensor slot as AC would be an auto-include. I'm pretty sure I heard an interview with the devs saying they do not want to add 'auto-include' cards. There is already a few.

No, I can have it both ways. Sorry.

You can't really just call Vader's ship a X1 and then make it ineligible for the upgrade, the S&V pilots can use the Slave 1 title for example.

So any upgrade to the Advanced has to take Vader into account. Unless they do something like limit to only pilot skill 8 or lower.

But all the Firespray cards say 'Firespray-31' on them, so it works with the title. They are flying the same ship. Compare Vader to Steele, or the generics, and the ship on the card is actually different. X1 vs plain ol' Advanced. Or, if all else fails, then just limit it to PS 8 or lower as you suggested.

X1 vs plain ol' Advanced.

My bad, I so rarely look at those cards I forgot that in fact Darth Vader's ship is listed as a Tie Advanced X1. So yeah you could use that as a way to limit who can use it.

Give it a title that costs 0 points and raises its agility value to 4 and adds a sensor upgrade slot to it for PS8 pilots and below. Then I believe its expected number of agility rolled should be the same as the expected number of damage rolled by a 3-attack X-Wing (1.5), making its cost parity with X-Wings make more sense. It also will have a sensor slot, which gives it something approaching parity with the X-Wing's astromech slot.

This also would make the TIE Advanced a pretty unique ship in the game.

With that title, an Advanced with Sensor Jammer and Stealth Device would be nigh impossible to hit at range 3. Heck at any range it would be hard to get off the table.

I doubt you will ever see a sensor slot of the Tie Advanced. Accuracy Corrector has pretty much crushed that idea. I would be surprised if they added a sensor slot as AC would be an auto-include. I'm pretty sure I heard an interview with the devs saying they do not want to add 'auto-include' cards. There is already a few.

You can already put a Stealth Device and a Sensor Jammer on a cloaked Phantom, and that thing has four attack dice (when not cloaked) to the Advanced's two. Seems OK.

Accuracy Corrector is a good point, though. It would nearly be an auto-include for the Advanced. Kinda wish they weren't making that card, now. I'd rather see the Advanced get fixed the way I proposed.

I'm almost certain the Advanced will get a sensor upgrade slot, but Accuracy Corrector won't be the auto-include because there'll be other equivalent, interesting fixes as well. They hinted at that in the interview.

X1 vs plain ol' Advanced.

My bad, I so rarely look at those cards I forgot that in fact Darth Vader's ship is listed as a Tie Advanced X1. So yeah you could use that as a way to limit who can use it.

But why would you want to? Vader should be a beast.

X1 vs plain ol' Advanced.

My bad, I so rarely look at those cards I forgot that in fact Darth Vader's ship is listed as a Tie Advanced X1. So yeah you could use that as a way to limit who can use it.

But why would you want to? Vader should be a beast.

Yeah, any addon should be applicable to Vader as well as Maarek. Ideally X-wing should have seperate ship and pilot cards. - That would have made things ohsomuch more interesting.

Would have broken it. Look at Attack Wing.

FFG started out with separate pilots and ships, then consciously chose to combine them. It's for the best, both thematically and by gameplay.

Would have broken it. Look at Attack Wing.

FFG started out with separate pilots and ships, then consciously chose to combine them. It's for the best, both thematically and by gameplay.

Yeah, it does remove some unholy options...

I think any path that is done to fix the Tie Advance should also apply to Vader. He has possibly the best pilot skill in the game and players still don't use him. Whatever is done to fix the ship needs to help Vader too. He is after all the best star pilot in the galaxy.