I really like this SW and this game...and have really enjoyed reading some of the forums.

Wow people know their stuff...impressive

I've read the posts re: what people think/suggest FFG should do to l fix the Tie Advance and get it back to being bad-ass (like it should be)

I'm sure FFG has been listening to all the great ideas by many many folks

My only ask to FFG is to consider theme when they come up with their fix (whatever it is)

and suggest that the Tie-Advance be a very, very dangerous ship on the board

....so dangerous that maybe it's new title card requires that you can only ever have one Tie-Adv per squad.

I mean...lots of Ties...lots of Bombers..lots of Interceptors....Shuttles...even phantoms and defenders feels very Imperial and right

BUT....when Vader flew his solo Tie-Adv in the Battle of Yavin picking off Y's and X's without mercy...his ship was totally unique out there - very much of a Red Baron thing going on

I hope that maybe FFG can preserve some of that "Alpha of the Wolf Pack" feeling with the Adv with whatever they come up with.

To all the designers at FFG - great works guys/gals...keep it up

Cheers!

Green Bandit.

While I don't think this will happen(there is no precedent of any one ship being limited in any list, except ship types in Epic play, but that is still not limited to one) I think it is a good idea, thematically. It is true that you never see squads of them flying around together. In Star Wars, it is just Vader, and in the new Rebels show, a early version is shown, and it is just the Inquisitor flying it among a swarm of Ties. Additionally, while I feel that a fix is needed, I also feel that the Tie Advance was not a great ship in and of itself. Just that Vader was a beast and made an ok ship, shine.

well... the ship should be much more powerful. I think they should make an x1 title for Vader only that buffs up his ship (kind of like how the named YT-1300s are much more powerful)

Here's the problem:

it should have

the tie fighter dial...

some sort of customization, either easy EPT access or systems or something...

a point reduction totalling 4.5

and THEN some fix to add firepower:

MJ/TheRealStarkiller's:

Title: -3 points, add a free FCS effect.

Gives added ability to shoot off missiles.

Mine:

Title: -3 or 4 points, When you attack a ship you are TL'ed on, that ship rolls 1 less defense die.

Incentivises different way to fly. Maybe slow fly in, hold the TL and keep attacking that ship. Or try and be out of arc as much as possible and hold a TL. Instead of automatically taking Focus.

But fluff-wise the TIE advanced wasn't all that great. It was a prototype that never made it into full-scale production, and the biggest contribution it made was the design lessons the empire learned from it and later incorporated into the other high-end TIEs. Its shields and hyperdrive were useful when Vader insisted on flying into combat and the only alternative was a standard TIE fighter, but X-Wing happens much later and by that point the advanced had already been replaced by the defender/interceptor/phantom.

double post?

I'm fairly new to the game, what's so wrong with the TIE advanced?

Mine:

Title: -3 or 4 points, When you attack a ship you are TL'ed on, that ship rolls 1 less defense die.

Incentivises different way to fly. Maybe slow fly in, hold the TL and keep attacking that ship. Or try and be out of arc as much as possible and hold a TL. Instead of automatically taking Focus.

I want to like this idea, but it would only be useful on Vader, and he doesn't need any relative buffing. Reason being: your 3 defense dice are going to be far less useful without having a focus token. Your increase in damage output would be more than offset by a decrease in durability. Vader of course can F+TL to mitigate this.

I'm fairly new to the game, what's so wrong with the TIE advanced?

The mathematical theory says that the generic pilots are overcosted by at least 4 points.

I'm fairly new to the game, what's so wrong with the TIE advanced?

Basically it's that 2 attack and 3 defense is significantly worse than 3 attack and 2 defense, but the designers when they were making the game didn't realize just how much so and so they overcosted the ship significantly.

Don't worry the next year, the makers promise to get a good upgrade to this ship, we need to wait what they have to us, greettings.

True, Darth Vader isn't badass. Wedge is. Han Solo is. Horn is. a few of the new rebel pilots are. Vader isn't.

Rexlar is badass on paper at least. Vader isn't even on paper.

Two actions help, but in this ship its almost a waste - there are too many situations for him to lose his actions.

This ship is lacking both firepower and upgrade slots. Dial is worst of all imperial snubfighters.

With upgrades you can make Vader useful. Engine Upgrade, Proton Rockets and Outmanouvre make him a useful flanker for 39 points .... but Soontir Fel + PTL is still a better flanker for only 30 points.

Somehow you can't make Vader badass - no matter how many of the current upgrades you sink into him.

No matter what role you find for him, there is a cheaper option.

So the Tie Advanced needs some decent new stuff.

And I mean DECENT OPish new stuff.

MJ/TheRealStarkiller's:

Title: -3 points, add a free FCS effect.

Gives added ability to shoot off missiles.

I'm more in adding a System Upgrade slot with a discount on System Upgrades - or even a System Upgrade for free.

Or you may add an Elite Training for free.

And perhaps a possibility to attack twice, using the Missile Slot. Something like this:

Enhanced Laser Banks

Tie Advanced only

Missile Slot

0-2 points

Attack [Target Lock]: Spend your Target Lock to perform this attack twice. Attack value: 2. Range: 2-3.

Yes, together with Accuracy Corrector this would be badass. Too badass for no-name pilots. Just quite right for Darth Vader.

I'm not a fan of making the Tie Advanced cheaper. Not even a single point. I still got in mind that this ship was designed to match the X-Wing. If you can't field 5 X-Wings - you can't field 5 Tie Advanced.

The X1 was a meh upgrade point - but it did have hyperdrive and shields. In my campaigns thematically i use it for vanguard recon duty.

The interceptor was spawned off of the X1 program and was replacing the /ln in the TIE corps. It was the finest mass produced ship the galaxy ever saw.

The Avenger roflstomped everything the Rebels had, but in far fewer numbers. In the Imperial civil war with Zaarin many manufacturing plants were destroyed. It could be argued that the Avenger is the stopgap between the mass produced Interceptor and the Elite Defender, but I believe it has more of a place.

The Phantom was a special project that was supposedly destroyed, though I like that others were kept safe - possibly in the maw. I use these for elite recon patrols also.

The fundamental problem with the Advanced is simply it is under-powered when shooting for its cost in the game.

Compare a 39 pt Horn vs Vader, Horn is vastly superior.

Corran Horn (39)

PtL, R2 unit

Vader (39)

EU, Outmaneuver or Predator, Proton Rockets

Corran has the same two actions a turn as Vader (and has no real issue clearing stress with the R2 unit)

Corran has the same survivability as Vader 5 HP vs 5 HP, maybe slightly better as the extra shield vs hull is seen as a better deal.

Corran can double tap, Vader can double action, but Corran has double tap plus PtL so advantage Corran

Corran can double tap regardless of losing his actions, Vader is almost hopeless if he is action denied.

Corran has 3 attack vs Vaders 2

They are matched on agility.

Vader is slightly more maneuverable with EU, but Corran has a better dial.

I also think though, that only Vader should be buffed, the other Advanced were very rare and as many have said, were a failed prototype.

I think a simple title card that adds an attack die for zero points and that is unique fixes the problem. Field it on any Adv you want, but you can only field one upgraded one.

I have spent many hours and posts mulling this and this seems to be the best solution to me at least.

The fundamental problem with the Advanced is simply it is under-powered when shooting for its cost in the game.

Compare a 39 pt Horn vs Vader, Horn is vastly superior.

I also think though, that only Vader should be buffed, the other Advanced were very rare and as many have said, were a failed prototype.

I think a simple title card that adds an attack die for zero points and that is unique fixes the problem. Field it on any Adv you want, but you can only field one upgraded one.

I have spent many hours and posts mulling this and this seems to be the best solution to me at least.

Yes, let's compare a 39 point ship to a 29. Sorry, I had to point that out first and foremost. I'll move on and say canonically the E-wing came out way later and is a technologically superior craft.

The title card to make an advanced into an avenger increasing attack is something i've suggested myself. I'd make it 2 points and not limited, but the idea is the same. I'd still like the avenger model. I'd buy 4. make it a 4 point upgrade and including a boost option wouldn't be terrible either.

It's strange. In the game, Vader is an incredibly strong defensive ship, especially if he takes Stealth Device.

But he SHOULD be the opposite way around, deadly on the offence, but not a Mega Turtle.

Vader blew up a bunch of ships that couldn't maneuver in a trench. They were sitting ducks. I wouldn't really call what he did all that great. Nothing he did in the Advanced couldn't have been done with a regular Tie\In

Any upgrade to the TIE Advanced should cost 0 points considering the ships already are overcosted.

Also, upgrades should focus on making the generics and Maarek Steele better, not Darth Vader. Vader's ability is so good that his 29-point cost is justified, despite his ship being subpar. The other Advanced pilots are overcosted and needed to be buffed for balance.

@ DariusAPB, just an FYI mate, I compared spending exactly 39 points on both ships with popular upgrades for both the ships.

The comparison is valid in game points....

Naked, within the current game points system, Horn should be better as he is 35 pts vs Vader's 29 pts.

However at 39 points spent on each, they should be on a par, they aren't.

Technology advances have no bearing in a game where points are used to purchase ships in a squad. Equally pointed ships should (in this case 39 vs 39) should be comparable in effectiveness in game. Not the same, but the same effectiveness. Vader and all of the Adv's when upgraded to equal points with another ship are not.

That was my point.

:-)

It depends what the title card does. Just being a weapon upgrade miiiight not need t I am going to say title card as at this point it's FFG's standard fix. A-wings, Y-wings (not in need of a fix, but mixes it up) and Tinterceptors all got titled.

I wouldn't count too much on a single upgrade fixing what's wrong with the Advanced... Not unless it's a 0 point title that borders on being broken... And also can't be taken by Vader.

@ DariusAPB, just an FYI mate, I compared spending exactly 39 points on both ships with popular upgrades for both the ships.

The comparison is valid in game points....

Naked, within the current game points system, Horn should be better as he is 35 pts vs Vader's 29 pts.

However at 39 points spent on each, they should be on a par, they aren't.

That was my point.

:-)

Eh fair enough.

I think one problem with the T/A vs the X-W is that while they are very comparable there is no parity between green and red dice. You have more of a chance of hitting on 1 red than you do of evading on one green. This said however said advanced are capable of two different actions more than the X-wing. On a cost by cost analysis an X-wing is even to a TIE. Except that it isn't, as despite having more action options you only ever are going to pick one. While Barrel roll is HUGE for TIE's for ARC dodging - Fat han ignores the Imperial arc dodging advantage (and Imperials do have a huge arc dodge advantage when not being fielded in howlbricks). It still doesn't help the lack of green to red parity which is where the advanced suffers. This is further compounded of course by the fact that X-wings have 2-3 options to recover shields/damage, TIE's do not.

Vader is the perfect T/A as he does take advantage of the advanced actions range more than any other. Maybe one card idea for a TIE advanced would be (minimum skill 4) You may make one more action with this TIE advanced, it must not be a duplicate action.

Things like extra strength or different dials or boost ultimately could go to a true "TIE Avenger". The problem with the TIE Avenger is that is takes space that is used by the interceptor and defender respectively. Personally i'd add it anyway, but that's me.

Edit: I should note that x-wings having the astromech mod is one thing the TIE advanced doesn't. A system upgrade slot would also bring parity. Then it's missile/system to torpedo/astromech.

To sum:

TIE Avenger title card. Adjusts the attack rating of the TIE Advanced to 3. 2 points. I can't justify the advanced getting something like this for free. At 0 cost this makes the advanced clearly better than the x-wing

TIE Advanced X1 Elite pilot title card.

May make an additional action, which may not duplicate. I realize that this makes every Advanced into Vader. This is powerful and needs to cost points, at 0 cost this makes the advanced clearly better than the x-wing

Tie Advanced systems upgrade title card.

add the (systems upgrade) to the upgrade list.

This should be 0 points. It gives upgrade parity to the X.

I agree with you on the Red v Green disparity. It's easy to understand why this was done as it keeps the game moving at a quick pace but in certain instances, the Adv being one, the disparity becomes to large, making the ship near hopeless in the game.

I agree with you on the Red v Green disparity. It's easy to understand why this was done as it keeps the game moving at a quick pace but in certain instances, the Adv being one, the disparity becomes to large, making the ship near hopeless in the game.

It does make mechanical sense. it's easier to hit someone with a near lightspeed bolt of energy than it is to dodge a near lightspeed bolt of energy. But yeah, it's part of the problem.

I'd like to add that if auto thrusters is a modification that buffs out of arc defense dice. It'll make Fat Han and my Y-wing formation all but obsolete. - points and meta depending of course.

I'd like to add furthermore that both the Advanced and Avenger I consider to be defensively powerful Imperial ships that relied on agility more than firepower. The only Imperial ship that didn't ultimately was the assault gunboat. Even the bomber could throw the moves when it wanted to.