The problem is not making the ship too good, but that AC would be an auto include in that slot. It would be the clear best upgrade to put in the system slot, much like PtL on Soontir/Carnor/RGT. That is bad design and FFG wants to avoid Clearly Best in Slot upgrades.

Tell that to 3PO Falcons, HLC B-wings, HLC Rendars, ect. Its inevitable that certain upgrades will just go well with certain ships/pilots, both for mechanics and fluff reasons. On that subject , it also makes sense Vader does auto-damage considering Vader...does auto damage.

We also don't know what other fixes the designers have planned. We know there is more than one based on their GenCon interview with Team Covenant. Systems upgrade with Accuracy Corrector would be a great improvement, but it might not be the clearly best once we see what else is available.

The problem is not making the ship too good, but that AC would be an auto include in that slot. It would be the clear best upgrade to put in the system slot, much like PtL on Soontir/Carnor/RGT. That is bad design and FFG wants to avoid Clearly Best in Slot upgrades.

That doesn't sound right. Push the Limit is found only in the A-Wing expansion pack and Imperial Aces.

Not sure what you mean here. I mean that PtL is basically an auto include on Soontir. I think FFG put it in Imp Aces because it was already the best thing for many interceptors, but only available in the a-wing pack. The problem of it being best in slot was already a thing, they just made it less of a waste for Imperial only players to acquire.

In the case of the TIE advanced they have many options to try and make it better without introducing another best in slot upgrade.

The problem is not making the ship too good, but that AC would be an auto include in that slot. It would be the clear best upgrade to put in the system slot, much like PtL on Soontir/Carnor/RGT. That is bad design and FFG wants to avoid Clearly Best in Slot upgrades.

Tell that to 3PO Falcons, HLC B-wings, HLC Rendars, ect. Its inevitable that certain upgrades will just go well with certain ships/pilots, both for mechanics and fluff reasons. On that subject , it also makes sense Vader does auto-damage considering Vader...does auto damage.

Design intentions are not always perfect. I know that it is inevitable in a game as complicated as XWMG for there to be a difference in the potential usefulness of upgrades, but AC is so obviously superior on a 2 attack ship that the other options might as well not exist.

You might think that Accuracy Corrector is the best choice, but it's presumptuous to say that everyone else will all the time. Adding a system slot would give the Advanced various roles to play and players would explore them.

You might think that Accuracy Corrector is the best choice, but it's presumptuous to say that everyone else will all the time. Adding a system slot would give the Advanced various roles to play and players would explore them.

which the naked phantom could perform, outperform, and that on top of doing its other roles eg. firepower support as a fake "Bwing HLC", drawing fire away from other elements because it IS dangerous, etcetc, for the exact same price range.

let's pause for a moment. The TIEadv was originally created (in the game) as a counterpart to the Xwing. Now, both ships have very similar total stats, maneuvers, and upgrade slots. The TIEadv pales in comparison against the Xwing in the whole red dice vs green dice thing, poorer maneuver choices, lack of pilot abilities, lack of slots for upgrades (Xwing has Astromech slot, TIEadv has nothing similar).

Now, let's stop for a second and let the TIEadv become an Xwing. Ie. we simply grab the entire Xwing set available and throw it into the Imperial side. Now, let's look at the roles our Xwing is able to play on the Imperial side. Rookie Xwing vs Alpha TIEint is very similar to each other, but 1 has more durability, the other a bit more maneuverability. Rookie Xwing vs Scimitar TIEbomb, Xwing is also able to carry a support ordnance but in exchange for +5 points, so it probably doesnt eat too much into the role of the TIEbomber.

it would also be nice for the Imperials to have supportive effects such as Garven, R3A2, Wes, Biggs and so on. Likewise, the ace pilots also complement the Imperials' style well enough, eg. Wedge, Luke, Hobbie etc, and really brings new gameplay elements to the Imperials. If Rebels can now have a 12pt filler ship, why cant Imperials have more supportive ships like Airen, Lando, Dutch, named HWKs etcetc? Yes, the named Shuttles was an attempt to fill this void, but they have failed quite disastrously. Besides, the Shuttles now have different uses and roles, which would not overlap with the Xwing.

So, let's get back to the TIEadv. What we need to do isnt to give it a sensor slot or blindly making it stronger, but to make it more akin to the ship it was supposed to mirror in the first place.

Possibly, but I don't think anyone in this thread can predict what players are going to do with the options that will be available to them whenever the Advanced fix arrives.

You might think that Accuracy Corrector is the best choice, but it's presumptuous to say that everyone else will all the time. Adding a system slot would give the Advanced various roles to play and players would explore them.

which the naked phantom could perform, outperform, and that on top of doing its other roles eg. firepower support as a fake "Bwing HLC", drawing fire away from other elements because it IS dangerous, etcetc, for the exact same price range.

Possibly, but I don't think anyone in this thread can predict what players are going to do with the options that will be available to them whenever the Advanced fix arrives.

if we are going to make a Sensor Upgrade that is really good, chances are all the other ships with sensor slots out there would be using it (as seen with PTL for EPTs, during wave 2 wave 3 especially). If we are going to make a very specific upgrade that benefits the TIEadv only and not other sensor slotted ships, why not simply give it to the TIEadv and skip that whole sensor slot thing? Especially when we can see that none of the other sensor upgrades we currently have really solve its problems without further worsening its drawbacks (ie. mainly its high point costs)

Leave the Tie Advanced alone! Vader does not need a buff, and the others have no business flying Vaders unique ship.

Ya Vader with AC, Ruthlessness, and Engine won't be tough to deal with at all. He only Auto-Proc's against Agility 1 or lower. And unlucky 2 Agility ships. (would work with Stele and any new EPT Advances) nothing to worry about right?

I wish I were smart enough to do the math comparing Wedge to Vader with AC. +1 attack die and reducing AG vs. 2 auto-damage seems to even out in the end at 29 vs 32 points+cost of Mod. IMO its a no-brainer to give Advanced Ties a System-upgrade slot, as its doubtful FFG will change their stats/point costs. No matter what we get, I can't wait to actually put Vader on the table for reasons other than "Because its frakkin Vader."

A more fair comparison would be PTL Wedge vs AC Vader; both would be at 32pts and have dual action. Or Tycho, ATP, Expert Handling, PTL, Hull, Refit.

I agree, with whatever they get I hope to field Vader more often when I'm playing Empire.

Also Have you tried Vader, Squad Leader, Experimental Interface? It functions similar to a PTL Cracken.

With those upgrades, Vader would be sitting at 39 points. I still don't think he would be anymore dangerous than Echo at a 39 point build.

I'm going to assume you meant Whisper at 39. I'm trying to think of an Echo 39 build but everything I think of is either under or over 39. It may seem like a lot of points but the minimal would be 35, I mentioned Engine Upgrade to maximize Vader's Arc Dodging via Dual Action.

AC and Ruthlessness together (6pts) would turn any EPT Advanced's into AoE machines vs anything rolling 2 Agility Dice or less.

Anything rolling 1 dice is an automatic Hit to HP; Proc'ing Ruthlessness; Automatic hit to 1 ship within R1 of the Defender (exception Attacker).

Rolling 2 dice is 2 damage if the main target rolls poorly, or 3 if the main target is unlucky.

Imagine Blount with Deadeye and re-loadable Assault Missiles. How is that not an incredibly powerful combination.

On top of that Vader can "Turtle up" using Focus + Evade defensively and still offensively use AC + Ruthlessness.

Again though, while excited for whatever buff/new swag is heading towards the TIE Advanced I doubt it will be a Systems Slot.

And if IT IS then AC + Ruthlessness will be my defaulting combo for Maarek and Vader; and any new EPT Advanced's.

Vader should be able to beat any rebel ship in 1v1. Even f***** fat Solo.

I'd give him a cannon slot if I could to maximize his firepower.

A more fair comparison would be PTL Wedge vs AC Vader; both would be at 32pts and have dual action. Or Tycho, ATP, Expert Handling, PTL, Hull, Refit.

Very true. Same point cost, both(theoretically) effective. I'd love to see a AC+Ruthlessness Vader hit the table.

So why not a Chardan refit style card that allows the advance to carry cannons?

So why not a Chardan refit style card that allows the advance to carry cannons?

This is your first post?! Welcome to the neverending Tie Advance discussions ^^

Why not. The consensus appears that the advance is 4 points over costed and that its major problem is the inherent weakness of green dice vs red dice. The ship was clearly designed as an early "heavy fighter" thus making it's dial reasonable and thematic.

A tempest sporting a HLC would come in at 28 points. It's still pilot skill 2, it still has the advanced dial (which I like but do concede is inferior to the standard tie). A defender is 37 points (and I believe his to be very expensive) but the white kturn is extremely useful. the two would play fairly differently on the board. The defender is simply more capable of sustained hard turn dogfighting where the advanced would be more "boom and zoom" type play - not exactly but I'm struggling to put a concept into words here. I really don't feel that this would cut into the defender as much as people fear. Most players I run into run defenders without cannons anyway preferring to forgo them for engine upgrades

If we want to compare imperials to rebels (as everyone is for the adv vs xwing) the blue bwing is 29 points for the same pilot skill, has more health, less agility but can take systems and torpedoes. The Advanced would give up its missiles at this point. still has no access to advanced sensors. Most people seem to regard the bwing as the king of the furball.

This has fairly great potential for the HLC but also ion cannon and auto blaster would be reasonable too.

A -1 might even be in order...

honestly even if the TIEadv was reduced to 16-17pts from a chardaan, I wouldnt use it, because it doesnt do anything for me. It is now unable to carry any supporting missiles, and with only 2 atk and a poorer maneuver dial, a standard TIE would easily do the exact same job and be better at it.

giving it a cannon slot most likely wouldnt help it much either, since you are probably going to plonk down a HLC, and a phantom already has that for 25pts. Also, on the other end of the spectrum, you are eating into the TIEdef's role as a cannon user

Leave the Tie Advanced alone! Vader does not need a buff, and the others have no business flying Vaders unique ship.

It's not a unique ship.

It's brutally underpowered and very much does need a buff, Vader included.

FFG have already said they're buffing it.

So why not a Chardan refit style card that allows the advance to carry cannons?

Do you mean Bomb Loadout style? FFG all but confirmed at GenCon that they're not going to Chaardan the TIE advanced. Hinted very heavily at a title too.

Vader's ship is unique, it is the only TIE Advanced that is marked as TIE Advanced X1, says there right on the card

maybe that's where the EPT slot came from *shrug*

They look pretty **** similar to me.

Vader's may be the prototype and the TIE advanced may be a limited run ship, but it's hardly one of a kind. It's not unique.

I have to say that I think the Sensor slot would work well even with Accuracy Corrector. The Advanced would still be an expensive ship and even fielding the four lowest PS ships that do 2 damage a round isn't exactly breaking the game.

Also, with Vader, he runs in close at R1, where FCS three dice with his actions reserved for focus/roll/evade or the ever popular boost with EU, would be more probable.

You'd never see Accuracy Corrector used on Mareek and I would bet that FCS would be a far more popular choice in general for toting missiles and for the 2 attack dice reroll. Two dice with TL and focus is a very high chance to hit with both.

Advanced Sensors would also make for some interesting possibilities with the Tie Adv.

You'd never see that used on Mareek

You'd never see Maarek used. I doubt an Systems slot is what they have in mind.

FCS or Adv. Sensors on Mareek would be awesome. Give him an Engine Upgrade and PtL and he becomes a very efficient fighter with the added benefit of his crit ability.

No, no, no, there is nothing efficient about a TIE advanced in its current state! Vader can be made playable but you have to pump him up so high with upgrades that you could buy some serious firepower for the same cost. If you gave the advanced a systems slot and did what you said you'd have a 37 point Maarek. No way that's better than Rexler Brath.

I didn't allude to him being better than Brath. They would fill different roles on the table. Brath isn't very maneuverable, Mareek would be.

The upgrades make Mareek a good ship without making him OP. I would say he would be comparable to a naked Brath.

From all of this I have to agree.

A systems slot is probably the best and easiest way to fix this ship.

Since it's 4 points over costed already, how much is a systems slot worth? If it's 4 then a title for 0 cost add a systems slot would be fine. Or maybe 1 pt.

I also agree that this would boost vader, but still not make him better than a 39 pts phantom. I personally think we need to see more vader on the table. When I first started playing and I saw Vader. I was always uneasy about facing him. This feeling has been replaced by when I see a Phantom. I wouldn't mind getting it back to Vader again. At least it makes more sense than a 4 attack Phantom, which is another discussion.