Alright, I should know this, but how exactly does Order 66 work? When ROTS first came out the idea commonly heard was that the clones had been deep programmed to kill the Jedi when triggered, i.e., they had no choice in the matter. The scene pointed out much of the time was Cmdr. Cody firing on Obi-wan seconds after having a conversation with him with no hesitation. Subsequent books went out of their way to establish tension between clones and Jedi -- not all of them -- but there nonetheless. Jedi were often regarded as poor generals or diplomats working as a military branch. Clones were mistreated or seen as less than sentient beings since they were just clones. Then the Clone Wars TV show went through great lengths to show the clones as individuals. Jedi were shown with friends who were clones. Books basically set up an idea where the clones have free will but follow the order, so effectively is it spread without question. This gains weight from the general animosity shown between clones and Jedi, leading them to be saddened or surprised but nevertheless believing it. In some books there is even an incident where a squad of clones refuses the order, warns their Jedi general to flee, and are then collectively executed by Vader.

However, I just watched the early episodes of season 6 of the Clone Wars though and they have a great episode arc addressing this. A clone trooper named Tup straight up executes a Jedi in the middle of a battle and then tries to kill other Jedi, muttering "a good soldier follows orders" all the while. Other clones are shocked and everybody, Jedi and clones alike, assume he is either brainwashed or infected with something the Seperatists designed. He is then taken to Kamino where another clone, Fives, helps discover that he has a tumor. Unbeknownst to him and Shaak-Ti though, the Kaminoans report to Dooku that a clone has triggered Order 66 prematurely. Eventually the Chancellor shuffles some paper work so the truth is never found but this returns Order 66 to the realm of programming.

So what is Order 66 exactly, programming or effective conspiracy that plays on prejudices? I've always thought the tension between Jedi and clones seemed somewhat forced in the books. As Jedi they should care for the living regardless so the general atmosphere of them neglecting clones or treating them as lesser beings seems like a cheap plot device that goes contrary to their fundamental character. What say you?

--

**[i should note that season 6 of TCW is great, it also has an episode arc where Qui-Gon speaks to Yoda and instructs him on how to retain his spirit upon his death -- setting up the scene where Yoda tells Obi-Wan that his old master has learned to commune with the living from the dead at the end of ROTS. Yoda, in his trials, sees his deepest fears (the Jedi Order falling) and is told by the Force that the dark side is closing in. Odds are the light will not survive and the only chance the light has is for its learned masters to commune with the living after their death, so efectively will the Jedi Order be wiped out. Yoda learns this but keeps it secret since he is obviously working to prevent it but is depicted as resigned to this end earlier than expected. It adds great depth to the transition to ANH and I like it. Peoples should check it out.]**

Four whole fried chickens and a coke.

So what is Order 66 exactly, programming or effective conspiracy that plays on prejudices?

Based on the Clone Wars TV show, it seems pretty clear that it was programing, and the clones didn't have much choice in following Order 66.

Based on the Clone Wars TV show this is where I stop paying attention, that show doesn't exist in my mind because vader/ankin need to stop having a pile of secret apprentices

Note I do like the Star Wars Rebel show so I'm not bias to new kids style star wars stuff

Considering the command the Kaminoans have over genetics (growing clones, manipulating genes to make clones more reliable in combat, accelerating growth of clones, etc...) it is possible that Order 66 is both a "hard wired" trigger that is reinforced during the years-long training process. This seems to be supported in the movie where Yoda has no tingling in his spidey senses until the order was given. If the clones had constantly restrained "must kill jedi" thoughts, Yoda, and other jedi, would not have trusted them so completely.

You know, I always wondered what the Republic was thinking, cloning an army of sentient soldiers to fight your wars for you. Can't help thinking it would be more ethical to, you know, use droids... I could totally see the clones getting upset that they're just designed as cannon fodder.

What I found unfortunate about the movie was that the seperatist droids showed more emotions than the clones. It kind of irked me, actually.

As for the actual order, I guess it depends on which source you're going through. I seem to remember that in the Star Wars Battleground campaign, the narrator (a clone) was saying how bad they felt that they would one day kill the Jedi that they were currently following.

Four whole fried chickens and a coke.

dry white toast for me

Only the Clone Wars show counts as cannon, the books are little more than fan fiction. So Order 66 was implanted in them via a biotech device within their brains.

Canon says this: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Order_66/Canon

You know, I always wondered what the Republic was thinking, cloning an army of sentient soldiers to fight your wars for you.

Thing is, they didn't even know about it until they were ready for delivery. When Obi-Wan went there, looking for information about that dart, he found out and was quite surprised about the army they were building.

Just one of the many contingency orders for the Grand Army of the Republic (the clone army). Published by a corrupt bureaucracy, issued by a manipulative genius, received by the most obedient and disciplined sentient army in existence, and carried out with extreme efficiency.

"In the event of Jedi officers acting against the interests of the Republic, and after receiving specific orders verified as coming directly from the Supreme Commander (Chancellor), GAR commanders will remove those officers by lethal force, and command of the GAR will revert to the Supreme Commander (Chancellor) until a new command structure is established."

Emphasis mine.

Any military on that scale needs contingency plans, and it was simply one of many. However, since Darth Sidious manipulated the creation of the army in the first place as a weapon to use against the Jedi, he gave special attention to this one.

Compare it to Order 65:

"In the event of either (i) a majority in the Senate declaring the Supreme Commander (Chancellor) to be unfit to issue orders, or (ii) the Security Council declaring him to be unfit to issue orders, and an authenticated order being received by the GAR, commanders shall be authorized to detain the Supreme Commander, with lethal force if necessary, and command of the GAR shall fall to the acting Chancellor until a successor is appointed or alternative authority identified as outlined in Section 6 (iv)."

It follows the same format, but the control of Order 66 lies with a single being, it leaves no room for mercy, and it does not specify protocol for the aftermath. If anyone gets suspicious of the wording, all Sidious has to do is have one of his puppets in the Senate point out the incredible capabilities of Jedi and the near-impossibility of restraining one for long, as well as the danger to the troops any attempt to capture them might cause. Not that they care about the clones, of course, but it would be good press.

So just another long-standing contingency plan they'd had drilled into them since birth. No need for implants or Force manipulation, although the Thrawn Trilogy makes it pretty clear that clone armies are more susceptible to the latter.

EDIT: Repeatedly ninja'd. So apparently, according to TCW; it is an implant. The Republic Commando series (which yes, is not technically canon) disagrees. I prefer the sources I find to be more consistent and reliable (as well as believable) to new material that not only attempts to be revisionist but fails to do so coherently.

But it's your game. Pick whatever you want, or come up with your own theory. What matters is having fun and telling a good story, and if you want Order 66 to be caused by brain parasites engineered by the Yuuzhan Vong, go right ahead!

But it's your game.

No it's really not. If we are going to discuss matters of canon, the why's and such, then we have to accept whatever is canon as canon, and not just ever someone wants to believe.

That's like trying to discuss WWII history with someone who believes it was the Goa'uld who were behind the bombing of Pearl.

I prefer the Vong squarely in the Star Trek universe where they belong

I'm surprised nobody has brought up Star Wars Battlefront II. In the campaign, after Felucia, the clone narrator states that the troops were extremely sad to be ordered to kill Aayla Secura. I know this doesn't answer the question of what Order 66 was but it sheds some light on whether or not the clones were opposed to it. (I'm unsure of whether this game is canon or not but it has a cool story.)

Order 66....Death to the Jedi order...The only good Jedi is a dead Jedi...To be carried out immediately ; no remorse and no regret...

Four whole fried chickens and a coke.

Dammit you beat me to it!

Alright, I should know this, but how exactly does Order 66 work? When ROTS first came out the idea commonly heard was that the clones had been deep programmed to kill the Jedi when triggered, i.e., they had no choice in the matter. The scene pointed out much of the time was Cmdr. Cody firing on Obi-wan seconds after having a conversation with him with no hesitation. Subsequent books went out of their way to establish tension between clones and Jedi -- not all of them -- but there nonetheless. Jedi were often regarded as poor generals or diplomats working as a military branch. Clones were mistreated or seen as less than sentient beings since they were just clones. Then the Clone Wars TV show went through great lengths to show the clones as individuals. Jedi were shown with friends who were clones. Books basically set up an idea where the clones have free will but follow the order, so effectively is it spread without question. This gains weight from the general animosity shown between clones and Jedi, leading them to be saddened or surprised but nevertheless believing it. In some books there is even an incident where a squad of clones refuses the order, warns their Jedi general to flee, and are then collectively executed by Vader.

However, I just watched the early episodes of season 6 of the Clone Wars though and they have a great episode arc addressing this. A clone trooper named Tup straight up executes a Jedi in the middle of a battle and then tries to kill other Jedi, muttering "a good soldier follows orders" all the while. Other clones are shocked and everybody, Jedi and clones alike, assume he is either brainwashed or infected with something the Seperatists designed. He is then taken to Kamino where another clone, Fives, helps discover that he has a tumor. Unbeknownst to him and Shaak-Ti though, the Kaminoans report to Dooku that a clone has triggered Order 66 prematurely. Eventually the Chancellor shuffles some paper work so the truth is never found but this returns Order 66 to the realm of programming.

So what is Order 66 exactly, programming or effective conspiracy that plays on prejudices? I've always thought the tension between Jedi and clones seemed somewhat forced in the books. As Jedi they should care for the living regardless so the general atmosphere of them neglecting clones or treating them as lesser beings seems like a cheap plot device that goes contrary to their fundamental character. What say you?

--

**[i should note that season 6 of TCW is great, it also has an episode arc where Qui-Gon speaks to Yoda and instructs him on how to retain his spirit upon his death -- setting up the scene where Yoda tells Obi-Wan that his old master has learned to commune with the living from the dead at the end of ROTS. Yoda, in his trials, sees his deepest fears (the Jedi Order falling) and is told by the Force that the dark side is closing in. Odds are the light will not survive and the only chance the light has is for its learned masters to commune with the living after their death, so efectively will the Jedi Order be wiped out. Yoda learns this but keeps it secret since he is obviously working to prevent it but is depicted as resigned to this end earlier than expected. It adds great depth to the transition to ANH and I like it. Peoples should check it out.]**

Joker 2 answered it pretty well. The answer is a bit of both. There would be some legions that shouldnt have genetic programing, 1st, 501st, they were taught from the get go, at least the first batches, they would be killing Jedi in many years to come. To them order 66 would be like any other command. I have a feeling because Commandos were more independant they would have less programming esp Zeta ARCs.

What I found unfortunate about the movie was that the seperatist droids showed more emotions than the clones. It kind of irked me, actually.

As for the actual order, I guess it depends on which source you're going through. I seem to remember that in the Star Wars Battleground campaign, the narrator (a clone) was saying how bad they felt that they would one day kill the Jedi that they were currently following.

What legion were they?

Only the Clone Wars show counts as cannon, the books are little more than fan fiction. So Order 66 was implanted in them via a biotech device within their brains.

Thats not what two important SW writters have said about canon. Even then the people running SW have flat out said the games are not legends yet, its to be decided. Even then if it becomes Legends its now 2ndary canon until contradicted. With the formula presented you dont even need to refrence that material in primary canon story for it to remain canon,

Joker 2 answered it pretty well. The answer is a bit of both. There would be some legions that shouldnt have genetic programing, 1st, 501st, they were taught from the get go, at least the first batches, they would be killing Jedi in many years to come. To them order 66 would be like any other command. I have a feeling because Commandos were more independant they would have less programming esp Zeta ARCs.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I only realized that TCW told it differently after I wrote my response based on Republic Commando. Here's what I meant to say:

There are two contradictory stories presented by Legends and new Canon material. The older material (the Republic/Imperial Commando series, Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader, and Star Wars: Battlefront II) presents Order 66 as one of many possible legal contingency orders, issued to clones who had been trained and conditioned into discipline and obedience and who for the most part obeyed that order (although not without some dissension or regret). They weren't trained specifically to kill Jedi, they were trained to be capable of it should the need arise. They were also trained to be capable of capturing or killing the Chancellor, the Senate, Kaminoan scientists, dissenting civilians, etc., in accordance with their other contingency orders.

The newer material (a handful of Star Wars: The Clone Wars episodes) apparently (I haven't seen the relevant episodes myself) presents Order 66 as some sort of mind-control implant that could possess the clones and force them to kill Jedi.

These two versions of Order 66 are either incomplete or incompatible, as all of the Legends material I referenced, as well as the novelization of Revenge of the Sith, includes first-person accounts from clones who experience nothing like what TCW describes. I find the Legends material much more consistent in its overall presentation of the clones as well as on the specific issue of Order 66 than the new Canon material, and so prefer to follow the Legends version.

The two versions can be reconciled without contradicting any existing Legends or Canon material. If you want to do that, Order 66 is a contingency order exactly as described in Legends. Darth Sidious secretly experimented with the mind-control implant exactly as described in TCW, but it was deemed a failure because of the events depicted in that show. Legends material even supports the idea that Darth Sidious conducted his own cloning experiments outside of the overall cloning effort, and the incident shown in TCW could be the result of one of those.

I think if there were any intention on the part of the material owners (Disney/Lucasfilm) to reconcile the canon, they wouldn't have lopped off 90% of it, named it 'Legends' and effectively said, 'none of this ever happened'

The background is interesting to be sure - but if you want 'official' stuff, one would be inclined to go towards material that George Lucas had direct (or at least indirect) control / final approval for. And that would be:

Original Trilogy

Prequel Trilogy

The Clone Wars

Star Wars: Rebels

New books: (Tarkin, A New Dawn, Heir to the Jedi)

I appreciate the attempt to make it all congeal - it does seem a shame to have all that material out there that is now of little more *official* worth than fan-fiction. :/

Joker 2 answered it pretty well. The answer is a bit of both. There would be some legions that shouldnt have genetic programing, 1st, 501st, they were taught from the get go, at least the first batches, they would be killing Jedi in many years to come. To them order 66 would be like any other command. I have a feeling because Commandos were more independant they would have less programming esp Zeta ARCs.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I only realized that TCW told it differently after I wrote my response based on Republic Commando. Here's what I meant to say:

There are two contradictory stories presented by Legends and new Canon material. The older material (the Republic/Imperial Commando series, Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader, and Star Wars: Battlefront II) presents Order 66 as one of many possible legal contingency orders, issued to clones who had been trained and conditioned into discipline and obedience and who for the most part obeyed that order (although not without some dissension or regret). They weren't trained specifically to kill Jedi, they were trained to be capable of it should the need arise. They were also trained to be capable of capturing or killing the Chancellor, the Senate, Kaminoan scientists, dissenting civilians, etc., in accordance with their other contingency orders.

The newer material (a handful of Star Wars: The Clone Wars episodes) apparently (I haven't seen the relevant episodes myself) presents Order 66 as some sort of mind-control implant that could possess the clones and force them to kill Jedi.

These two versions of Order 66 are either incomplete or incompatible, as all of the Legends material I referenced, as well as the novelization of Revenge of the Sith, includes first-person accounts from clones who experience nothing like what TCW describes. I find the Legends material much more consistent in its overall presentation of the clones as well as on the specific issue of Order 66 than the new Canon material, and so prefer to follow the Legends version.

The two versions can be reconciled without contradicting any existing Legends or Canon material. If you want to do that, Order 66 is a contingency order exactly as described in Legends. Darth Sidious secretly experimented with the mind-control implant exactly as described in TCW, but it was deemed a failure because of the events depicted in that show. Legends material even supports the idea that Darth Sidious conducted his own cloning experiments outside of the overall cloning effort, and the incident shown in TCW could be the result of one of those.

I don't think the two have to be mutually exclusive. Order 66 could be an actual legal precedent. At the same time, the chip forces the clones to act upon Order 66, as their strong individuality shown in the series would likely have them not obey the order to the extent it was used in the movie.

Four whole fried chickens and a coke.

Dammit you beat me to it!

You better think! Think about what your trying to do to me!

The clones were released in waves also, I suspect the chip was an experiment put on later waves or a single later wave. Not all.

One group that DID disobey the order were clone commandos, a deluxe batch as it were.

I think if there were any intention on the part of the material owners (Disney/Lucasfilm) to reconcile the canon, they wouldn't have lopped off 90% of it, named it 'Legends' and effectively said, 'none of this ever happened'

The background is interesting to be sure - but if you want 'official' stuff, one would be inclined to go towards material that George Lucas had direct (or at least indirect) control / final approval for. And that would be:

Original Trilogy

Prequel Trilogy

The Clone Wars

Star Wars: Rebels

New books: (Tarkin, A New Dawn, Heir to the Jedi)

I appreciate the attempt to make it all congeal - it does seem a shame to have all that material out there that is now of little more *official* worth than fan-fiction. :/

As I posted though, two important SW writters, one for Rebels one that writes novles, posted months after the announcment that LEGENDS doesn't equal noncanon. Its 2ndary canon. One said in the article he was interviewed in that the fans mis understod the annoucment in regards to canon status. One even said that they would repair / hand wave in damage done too there past stories to make them 100% true to canon if contradictions pop up.

Also games are not in the Legends group, Chee or the other guy working with him said games are as of yet undecided, although most have ben made into novels and or comics.

The clones were modified for loyalty, and that loyalty is to the Chancellor.