1) Rebels most competitive 100pt list not using a falcon?

2) Imperials most competitive 100pt list not using a phantom?

2) is easy:

AP

AP

AP

AP

AP

AP

HR

And 4 points to flavor - common options are ST, SU, BS, HU+Determination

2) Imperials most competitive 100pt list not using a phantom?

Kath /w Predator and Captive

Howlrunner

Obsidian x2

Academy Pilot

Barring crappy dice, it can handle anything.

The one you have the most experience with, honestly.

The Swarm is a thing now, so the Obsidian Swarm for the Imps:

Howrunner
Backstabber
5X Obsidian Squadron Pilots

For the Rebs, Swarm is also hot right now, I like this list:

4 Blue Squadron Pilots
1 Bandit

Just look at the top 4 of the nationals and regionals that do not include one of the two.

BBXX has always been pretty strong. Depending on it's configuration you can even get 2 HLC's on each B-Wing, which makes for 4 hard hitting ships.

One Imperial list I saw used VERY effectively by several players in a tournament at the weekend was:

Defender

Shuttle

Interceptor

There were a couple of variations on the theme, but the basic was Doomshuttle, Rexler Brath & Soontir Fel.

One Imperial list I saw used VERY effectively by several players in a tournament at the weekend was:

Defender

Shuttle

Interceptor

There were a couple of variations on the theme, but the basic was Doomshuttle, Rexler Brath & Soontir Fel.

That's the list that I've been using. I haven't lost a game yet, but then again, I'm not playing in tournaments, either.

Col Vessery w/ VI

Omnicron Shuttle w/ Gunner, FCS, and Engine Upgrade

Turr Phenir w/ PTL and Shield Upgrade

I think it's going to be hard to tell you what's highly competitive as everyone is going to argue about it. There are the ones from Gencon, but months have gone by and Rebel Aces is out. New strategies have been designed to focus on the Fat Han and Phantom lists. So, I think you will see a lot of different list. It also depends on your local meta. Are your local guys still flying with Fat Hans and Phantoms? Or is everyone going with the anti, but not one of those lists? It's kind of a crazy time right now, and I kind of like that.

I'm not so sure on Rebels, but I've had good luck with:

Etahn

Ten Numb

Wedge

You may want to extend the Rebel Restrictions to the Outrider (even though its not official) because a lot of people are thinking triple action Dash as a replacement for the Fat Han

Roark + 3 B Wings is pretty solid, with many pts for flavor. It has upgrade slots to answer lots of lists, and obviously Roark is a good answer to the Phantom, until he dies...better pack the Wookie!

The one you have the most experience with, honestly.

This... definitely this.

1) Rebels most competitive 100pt list not using a falcon?

2) Imperials most competitive 100pt list not using a phantom?

1) no such thing

2) no such thing

Boo Duraham, Boooooooo....

@Duraham: So, you think there isn't a SINGLE list out there that isn't a Phantom, Fat Han, or Tie Swarm? Seriously? Or you just having fun on a Friday?

1) Whatever a player can fly most skillfully.

I really believe that I've seen, in my short time in the game, that the skilled player with a good list is better than a mediocre or unskilled player with the best list. I do have access to directly witness the play of Worlds Top 10ers.

2) If we don't consider skill, a well constructed TIE Swarm or Rebel Swarm with at least one or two B-wings are very competitive.

TasteTheRainbow and klecser have the right of it, frankly. It doesn't matter quite as much what you put on the table, so much as how you handle what you've brought. Different tactics are required to face different ships, but odds are good that whatever you've brought can do something to effectively combat any opponent.

Look at what's happened to the Swarm since the Phantom showed up. People haven't needed to tinker with the list makeup all that much, they've adapted their strategy instead. In Round One, against a Fat Falcon list, you can take a traditional box+flanker approach and gun down the VIP. Round Two is against a VI Whisper list, so you start with two separate formations and go for field coverage, overlap, and decloak blocking until Whisper is down. So long as you can throw red dice at your opponent, you've got a chance.

@Duraham: So, you think there isn't a SINGLE list out there that isn't a Phantom, Fat Han, or Tie Swarm? Seriously? Or you just having fun on a Friday?

Based on my experiences and the track record in my area, yes I dare say that there isnt a single list out there on the same competitive level that doesnt feature either a C3P0 Falcon or ACD phantom. Along the same arguments, there isnt any currently existing list not featuring either that could not be further improved by simply swapping things out to chuck in either C3P0 + MF title on the existing Falcon, or swapping the PTL TIEint + some stuff for a ACD Whisper or Echo.

B B Roark Craken comes close though, but ease of use is nowhere as near that of a falcon/phantom list. Massed Sigma shows some promise but is very dicey, and players very quickly realize that it is much more effective if you chuck in a ACD whisper / echo in there

Meh, I think it's just due to people being lazy and not wanting to outfly the Phantoms. They just want the easy button.

Also, the OP said "most competitive that isn't..." Not, "is there anything that is as competitive". What you are saying is that there isn't a single list out there that has any chance at all of beating a Fat Han or Phantom list. I disagree.

Ease of use on a phantom list? Surely you jest.

BBXX has always been pretty strong. Depending on it's configuration you can even get 2 HLC's on each B-Wing, which makes for 4 hard hitting ships.

What is/are a good Rebel build(s)?

BBXX and what upgrades?

Thanks,

Awings!!!! Squad

3 A-wings

Prototype pilot with refit (-2)

Sojan expert handling (free barrel rolling), refit (-2)

Jake (proton missiles)

Headhunter

Bandit pilot

HWK 290

Roark with ion turret

Simple...awing fly in close, in there face close...hwk stay a bit behind but has ability to make pilot with range 1-3 to skill 12...first shooter. Prototype pilot or z95 headhunter whoever has best shot...other two are high skill 7 and 5, hwk is 4, bandit 2, prototype 1...but roark will make sure u have at least 4 high shooters so they don't get eaten up.

Awings!!!! Squad

3 A-wings

Prototype pilot with refit (-2)

Sojan expert handling (free barrel rolling), refit (-2)

Jake (proton missiles)

Headhunter

Bandit pilot

HWK 290

Roark with ion turret

Simple...awing fly in close, in there face close...hwk stay a bit behind but has ability to make pilot with range 1-3 to skill 12...first shooter. Prototype pilot or z95 headhunter whoever has best shot...other two are high skill 7 and 5, hwk is 4, bandit 2, prototype 1...but roark will make sure u have at least 4 high shooters so they don't get eaten up.

That's 99 points without missiles for Jake?

XXBB traditionally is low ps with Biggs.

There's ony one or two configurations that allow you a ps 9 or 10 X and it leaves only 5 or 6 points for defense and mobility. Which is not great.

At least the good thing is if you do happen to get the phantom directly in your arc. Or should I say. They allow you to get them into arc with bad flying you're still throwing 3 dice versus 4. Not too shabby.

--

Tie swarm is the next competitor. Takes a lot of practice to beat the phantom though.

Here's an Imperial list I've had some success with.

98 points

Rexler Brath, Heavy Laser Cannon, Predator

Black Squadron Pilot, Predator x3