Imperials still suck.

Seeing as it seems most here I would seem to agree imperials don't suck

Both faction are fairly equal.

As one poster even said, the imperials may even have a bit more of an advantage

Imperials still suck.

My resolve fades in the face of your overwhelmingly logical reasoning.

----->So if you really think he flew it well, then maybe those in your area are not good with phantoms?<------

The phantom is not an easy ship to fly, so folks shouldn't get offended by that.

It takes time, and practice, and really requires you to think 2-3 turns ahead at least. Also you should always considered two options. A plan A and B

Plan A if opponent goes the way you thought

Plan B if your wrong, a lot of times one manuever on the dial can still work for you if you need to change your plan and decloak another way.

I just felt like defending my adoptive X-wing community from your sweeping generalization. I split my time between four shops around here because I do get a few more hours off than I am used to because my wife is living and working in California right now. I put a name to the area because if you don't know where I am coming from, you can't very well make the assumption that my area is filled with people who have no grasp on playing with the Phantom. It is quite the contrary in my honest opinion.

It's ok though, you won the argument because I totally have no idea what I am talking about even though I was physically there playing the game last night.

Edit: on my phone, can't edit quotes very well.

Just that if you say that buddy flew well, that maybe what you consider "good" is actually not all that good. Seeingas how in this situation, your opponent had something which should have given him an advantage over you.

Now I just come to realize that maybe he was flying a generic phantom. Where I've been basing my argument off him flying whisper with advanced cloak.

Now if he was flying a generic then maybe he didn't have the advantage.

But the named Phantoms are pretty nasty.

It's not about winning an argument. It's that buddy came here and said that imperials suck, which is untrue. He then uses the argument of playing against 3 xwing with a Phantom which if he had whisper or echo then the 3 xwings shouldn't be much of a problem.

Just because if something does not work well for you, does not mean it's broken, overpowered, or at a disadvantage. It could just be that you as a player didn't play the squad to its full potential.

Edit:

I just want to add there is a reason you don't see many 3 ship xwing builds anymore. The current meta it seems will fly circles around them.

Fel with ptl. Royal guards, ptl, fat Han engine upgrade, phantoms,defender. Though not agile like a squint, they are tough and that white k turn is hard for xwings to catch up.

There just so many other ships and builds out there that xwings alone is hard to keep up.

That's not to say it's bad. They are still good, and if you have fun, thats all that matters

Imperials still suck.

. Good for her.

Please don't be like that here

This is a great community, and not call of duty, or destiny forums. Where you alway see this kind of response

Now that is uncalled for

Please don't be like that here

This is a great community, and not call of duty, or destiny forums. Where you alway see this kind of response

Removed. Sorry about that. It was too easy.

Now that is uncalled for

Please don't be like that here

This is a great community, and not call of duty, or destiny forums. Where you alway see this kind of response

Removed. Sorry about that. It was too easy.

than with Al-Qaeda.

Relatively off-topic, but can we not do this? It's not an appropriate shorthand in any way, and has no place here.

Thanks.

I'm as guilty calling the rebels terrorist scum as the next loyal citizen of the Empire, but even I cringed at that one a bit.

*shrugs*

Sure.

than with Al-Qaeda.

Relatively off-topic, but can we not do this? It's not an appropriate shorthand in any way, and has no place here.

Thanks.

I'm as guilty calling the rebels terrorist scum as the next loyal citizen of the Empire, but even I cringed at that one a bit.

I know ffs people they rebranded they go by Isis these days it's not 2012 anymore.

Bad joke out of the way, Isis are murdering scumbags and while I didn't support invading Iraq in 2001 but I'd support it now to get those under their power out of the situation we caused.

You keep saying that Echo or Whisper should burn down X-wings with little effort and that they should have an advantage. Even with VI and ACD, Echo and Whisper only advance to PS8 and 9, respectively. They are deployed before all of the X-wings allowing me to have preference on where I deploy. They move before high PS X-wings, which is where they lose their maneuvering advantage. Correctly guessing where the X-wings will go after you allowing the Xwings to control the closure rate. I can creep and keep you far enough out so your de cloak will most likely be sitting within range and arc of my guys. I will more than likely be able to guess where you plan on decloaking because you still have to use the front edge or the sides of your base. Keeping the Phantom in arc by moving second is very, very easy. Then when firing, 3 X's throwing Nine total dice with focus, 1 predator reroll, a stress from R3-A2 and Wedge's ability to reduce agility dice will more than likely melt the Phantom. Only blanks would save the Phantom which is relatively rare. He flew Echo, which regardless of PS, was still shooting after all of my list.

I will say that the named Phantoms do best against lower PS pilots because they have the ability to see where their opponent has parked and basically dance around that. The role is reversed when the Phantom moves first. All I have to do is slowly turn in a direction and I can keep the majority of your maneuvers where your final position could have arc on me in my own arc. Keeping the speed of closure in check with my higher PS allows me to do that. It is this exact PS bid that keeps the Sigma Squadron Pilots off of tables and why they are not really seen competitively.

Aside from all that stuff, the original post was not him saying explicitly that the Imperials suck, instead he was talking about how he has been having a difficult time getting the same winning results that he had running Rebel lists. It was not one of those "sky is falling" threads, but I can see how it ended up sounding that way.

The imperial navy can't hang with the rebels like they used to. I can't tell you the last time I lost to an imperial list. They ot have two tricks in the playbook, swarm and arc dodging. I know the fluff supports a lack of diversity, but for gameplay, getting tabled everytime I break out the blue and grays is getting old.

I WILL HONOR THE EMPIRE IN MY THOUGHTS AND ACTIONS

I WILL OBEY MY SUPERIORS

I WILL NEVER SHIRK FROM MY DUTIES

I WILL MAINTAIN IMPECCABLE STANDARDS OF CONDUCT AND APPEARANCE

I WILL USE IMPERIAL RESOURCES RESPONSIBLY

I WILL COMPLETE EVERY MISSION WITHOUT HESITATION, AMBIGUITY, OR MERCY

I WILL RECOGNIZE THAT THE EMPIRE IS GREATER THAN MYSELF AND BE WILLING TO DIE IN ITS SERVICE

I WILL CALL OUT THOSE WHO DO NOT LIVE UP TO THE STANDARDS OF THE NAVAL CODE

page 28 The Imperial Handbook

Aside from all that stuff, the original post was not him saying explicitly that the Imperials suck, instead he was talking about how he has been having a difficult time getting the same winning results that he had running Rebel lists. It was not one of those "sky is falling" threads, but I can see how it ended up sounding that way.

The opening post was:

Seems like a pretty clear-cut "imperials suck, rebels are OP" line of thinking to me. Not sure how you could read anything else into it, honestly.

Yeah, but, Firesprays. FIRESPRAYS!!!!!

I will say that the named Phantoms do best against lower PS pilots because they have the ability to see where their opponent has parked and basically dance around that. The role is reversed when the Phantom moves first. All I have to do is slowly turn in a direction and I can keep the majority of your maneuvers where your final position could have arc on me in my own arc. Keeping the speed of closure in check with my higher PS allows me to do that. It is this exact PS bid that keeps the Sigma Squadron Pilots off of tables and why they are not really seen competitively.

And thus the Phantom player shouldn't be taking a shot. He knows they shoot first, he knows they could get him in arc, so why in the Seven Hells is he even thinking about decloaking in that direction? Why is he decloaking at all? Staying out of arc is the Phantom's top priority. If that means not taking a shot for a round or two, then so be it. The Phantom's backup can do the damage while the enemy is wasting its time trying to track the Phantom down. If the enemy turns on the backup, then the Phantom turns on them. There really is no excuse for a Phantom player to walk his ship into an enemy formation, no matter what that formation is doing or how high its PS is.

Also:

Aside from all that stuff, the original post was not him saying explicitly that the Imperials suck, instead he was talking about how he has been having a difficult time getting the same winning results that he had running Rebel lists. It was not one of those "sky is falling" threads, but I can see how it ended up sounding that way.

The opening post was:

The imperial navy can't hang with the rebels like they used to. I can't tell you the last time I lost to an imperial list. They ot have two tricks in the playbook, swarm and arc dodging. I know the fluff supports a lack of diversity, but for gameplay, getting tabled everytime I break out the blue and grays is getting old.

Seems like a pretty clear-cut "imperials suck, rebels are OP" line of thinking to me. Not sure how you could read anything else into it, honestly.

If that is the case, why aren't Sigma squadrons with ACD dominating the Meta? If your PS lower, you might as well be running a sigma with ACD.

I read the post, it sounds more like frustration to me. There is no clear cut "rebels are op" aside from what people keep commenting. He stated he has won against them a lot and that he is getting defeated a lot when he plays as them. He states two of the biggest things affecting the meta as a whole, swarms and arc dodging which, in his opinion, is getting old for him.

It's an opinion peice, just like how I am defending my position on elite X-wings vs Phantoms. In the end it doesn't even matter, because someone else will probably come along and say something to the effect of " but the Phantom won't be in arc". Yeah, got it, it decloaks. I have seen how this effects the game. I know that sometimes a Phantom will run off somewhere to avoid getting shot and decide not to shoot in return.

It's a 3x3 table, there are not many places you can go that are really that surprising.

If that is the case, why aren't Sigma squadrons with ACD dominating the Meta? If your PS lower, you might as well be running a sigma with ACD.

I'll take a guess on this one.

When the Phantom came out, people weren't that used to play them so needed the high PS to outmaneuver their opponent. Then came the frustration of the opposition, and with it the current reign of the turrets that annihilate the maneuvring edge of the Phantom. Only way to counter that for the Phantom is to have a higher PS so he can recloak before the turret shoot and at least benefit from his 4 agility dice in defense. So, even though he doesn't really need it to outmaneuver (but still a very good edge), he still keep it for the current PS war going on.

At first, the high PS was needed to outmaneuver. Now it's more to counter the turrets everywhere.

my last comment was solely to troll everybody reading way too hard into my posts.

i very nearly bought a defender and a shuttle yesterday because they operate more like rebels.

guys, 3 x wings are not a joke. further, i havent told the whole story. we were playing 120 pt lists in preparation for a local tournament.

i ran:

echo, vi, stygium particle accelerator, enhanced scopes (i'm waiting to get railed for this one)

carnor jax, ptl

mauler mitheel

royal guard pilot, ptl

night beast

and instantaequitas rolled

wes, vi, stressbot

luke, vi, something else

wedge, predator

biggs and some other stuff.

i deployed together, and then flew them into a pincer formation, named ties out out in front, squints and phantom shooting up the side and trying to get around.

jax got double critted, the RGP got direct hit at range 3. he flew in a trident, biggs in the middle, luke and wedge on the wings, wes behind biggs, all one speed maneuvers in the general direction of the squint group. it wasnt a tight formation, but they kept a good 3rd of the board in front of them at all times. i slowed the phantom down to try and make a pass to the outside, while my ties scratched at biggs, and my squints died making dive bomb range one attempts. echo took 3 hits so i k turned to try to get some parting shots off, while the ties kept not doing anything, because they're ties and i didnt get them to range 1. wedge k turned and killed the phantom quickly.

yes, i picked a suboptimal load out for the phantom, but the very fact that there are must-includes on the phantom really only solidifies my point. if you have to include certain upgrades on a ship to give yourself a chance to win, then thats a bad thing

[quoute]

I know ffs people they rebranded they go by Isis these days it's not 2012 anymore.

Bad joke out of the way, Isis are murdering scumbags and while I didn't support invading Iraq in 2001 but I'd support it now to get those under their power out of the situation we caused.

Yep, we should went back in 1991 since Iraq violated the cease fire constantly. Take a look around the Web these days, I was surprised to see some former detractors come out and admit there were WMD's present and W was right. I've seen the chemical artillery shells so I never had any doubt. Besides the USA provided Saddam with WMD'S, no surprise. Anything else aside the violations of the cease fire should have been #1 reason. It rather bugged me they just ignored that for nearly 10 years. I saw both wars.

yes, i picked a suboptimal load out for the phantom, but the very fact that there are must-includes on the phantom really only solidifies my point. if you have to include certain upgrades on a ship to give yourself a chance to win, then thats a bad thing

You brought a sub-optimal list but your opponent did no such thing. He brought a list designed to give fits to the most efficient versions of the key ships in your list. IE Not one of your ships could effectively use superior actions to maximum effect, making all the inherent points you spent on PS worthless and leaving your ships very vulnerable unless you are several steps ahead of your opponent in the planning phase.

And, while I have nothing against people trying new builds so wouldn't jump on your echo build in and of itself, using an inefficient combination of upgrades that are actually detrimental to each other, and then using it to support a doom and gloom scenario for the empire is certainly asking for a railing.

but thats part of why the imperials are falling behind. you have to take these very specific upgrades to a phantom to make it viable.

you cant take interceptors without ptl, you can take phantoms without veteran instincts, ACD, and a crew member. you cant take ANY advanced, bombers are sub optimal without ordnance or a friend that has an HLC, you cant take ties unless you take a bunch.... it goes on and on.

you cant take interceptors without ptl, you can take phantoms without veteran instincts, ACD, and a crew member. you cant take ANY advanced, bombers are sub optimal without ordnance or a friend that has an HLC, you cant take ties unless you take a bunch.... it goes on and on.

I disagree with this entire paragraph.

you cant take interceptors without ptl, you can take phantoms without veteran instincts, ACD, and a crew member. you cant take ANY advanced, bombers are sub optimal without ordnance or a friend that has an HLC, you cant take ties unless you take a bunch.... it goes on and on.

And you think rebels are any different? There are plenty of stupid choices to make for rebels that are the equivalent of your phantom setup, but you don't see people whining about it. They just don't take the stupid choices. I suggest doing the same.

In fact, lets break it down.

1. Interceptors without PTL. Turr Phennir seems to alternate between Veteran Instincts and PTL. Also, Alpha pilots were being used to great success as mini swarms early on in the Store Championship/Regional season.

2. I think crew options are more optional than you think. And while not as meta defining as Whisper and Echo, I do believe that 4 Phantoms have had some recent success. Yes, ACD is super powerful, but I don't think many have experimented without it.

3. Darth Vader disagrees that you can't take any Advanced. You haven't flown until you have flown Vader with Engine Upgrade. Again, not a gatekeeper, but far more powerful than many give it credit for.

4. Bombers are quite obviously designed around usage of ordnance. This isn't a bad thing, though they are not that bad without it. And they did have some success this tournament season.

5. And??? You take a bunch due to the cost. If you want to bring a TIE Fighter, you sort of have a low cost ceiling. And bring a bunch sort of needs to be defined. As my current favorite squad uses 2.

you cant take interceptors without ptl, you can take phantoms without veteran instincts, ACD, and a crew member. you cant take ANY advanced, bombers are sub optimal without ordnance or a friend that has an HLC, you cant take ties unless you take a bunch.... it goes on and on.

And you think rebels are any different? There are plenty of stupid choices to make for rebels that are the equivalent of your phantom setup, but you don't see people whining about it. They just don't take the stupid choices. I suggest doing the same.

Yeah, rebels are different. I don't inmediately have to go digging for auto-include upgrades, except for one ship, and it's role is very obviously support. In fact, you can usually tinker your way into several different styles of list without changing a ship in most rebel lists. How many unique, viable lists can you squeeze out of a phantom? The answer is capped at 2, since there are two pilots and they both run the exact same set up. How many unique strategies can you run in a tie?

A lot of my issue may come from a lack of ships. I mentioned a few pages back that the defender and shuttle are more my speed, and I just don't own them.

How many unique, viable lists can you squeeze out of a phantom?

Plenty. The phantom is committed to a unique with VI and ACD, but you have the crew and system slots free with various choices (recon specialist vs. rebel captive, AS vs FCS, etc). And then you have the 50-60 points of other ships that support the phantom (or that the phantom supports, if you prefer). The fact that you can't succeed with stupid phantom setups like the one you used does not mean that the game is broken.

How many unique strategies can you run in a tie?

Who cares? The TIE fighter's job is to be simple and efficient, and it's very good at that job.

Didn't this thread have a different title and the same players earlier?