ugh. 3 X has so many more options than 3 ints. also much better statistical unvariance.

ugh. 3 X has so many more options than 3 ints. also much better statistical unvariance.

More options on paper, but in reality most of them aren't very good in a 3X list and you're going to take the same familiar Wedge/Luke/Biggs. And they have more consistent dice, but none of the interceptor list's maneuvering ability or action stacking. Take turrets out of the metagame and an interceptor list with a good player is much more powerful IMO than a 3X list.

I'm not saying imperials need buffs or that Rebels are over powered. In fact, I didn't say that. Firesprays, shuttles, and defenders are all very good ships that can hang with any Rebel ship. Those ships are very different from every other imperial ship however.

You're right, they ARE very different from every other Imperial ship. That's why they're priced differently, and that's why you need to fly them differently, and why they fill different roles.

ugh. 3 X has so many more options than 3 ints. also much better statistical unvariance.

Yes. And they pay extra for them all.

Conversely, TIE Interceptors have more native abilities than X-Wings and a much better movement dial, and that's included in the basic price.

Wouldn't the world be boring if everyone was the same?

I've effectively stopped playing X-wing for much the same reason(s). Sick of seeing LS this and LS that... I know that the DS lost in the movies... but it's just gotten beyond a joke IMO. Guess it just free's up more of my money for IA now. I can see the future of Armada going the same way, but I'm hooked on all things star wars. I'll do the dance for the first few 'waves' of Armada, but It too will end the same way as X-wing.

It's a shame. I loved X-wing. It's the game that got me back into the tabletop games scene after a 5 yr hiatus (thanks GW). I had hoped that the lopsidedness of upgrades and releases would not tip the way of the Rebels. But I guess, in hindsight, it was inevitable.

These are my thoughts and opinions. Agree or Disagree, I don't care.

OK, I disagree. Nothing has "tipped the way of the Rebels". The game is balanced, and an Imperial squad is just as capable of winning any given game as a Rebel squad.

Whisper, Soontir and Turr vs Wes, Luke and Wedge comes down to pilot skill. The Imperials having the edge on pure ship type.

I have never lost to a 3X build with 3 high maneuverer Imperial ships.

Sub in Vader for Whisper if you want a PS11 hunter with VI. Put Prockets on him and let him go to town. You can do the same with Soontir if you don't mind losing PtL, which IS not, as many people say, defacto on him.

Turrets are the only thing to fear with the high PS Ints. ask your friend for a rematch and try this. 99pts for the chance to choose initiative.


Darth Vader (37)

Proton Rockets, Veteran Instincts, Engine Upgrade


Soontir Fel (31)

Veteran Instincts, Hull Upgrade


Turr Phennir (31)

Royal Guard TIE, Veteran Instincts, Hull Upgrade, Targeting Computer

Do not be afraid of the K-turn with your Ints, especially Soontir in this set up as the stress will give him a focus, which is gold at R1 behind the enemy.

Vader is just awesome like this and Turr can easily stay at R1 and doge arc after he shoots. If you are facing shots from the enemy, use focus to defend unless you have a kill shot first.

Hasn't the imperials won the most Gen con and worlds tournaments? The empire is great and clearly when flow well and effectively gets the job done! Gonna watch out when I go to work since the sky is falling.

XXX lists suffer from the law of diminishing returns - as soon as the Rebel player loses one ship, it can become an uphill battle. The Imperials have all the tools to take the Rebels down, they just need to use them effectively.

1 - Blocking. Cheap Academy Pilots are there to get in the pimped out X-Wings way. Learn the X-Wing dial dials, predict (or influence) their movements, stop their movements and deny their actions.

2 - Focus Fire. Identify your priority target, isolate it and neutralise it. X-wings have 5 hit points and only two evade dice. They're not difficult to take down if you're determined to finish them off. The sooner you take one out of the game, the less firepower you have coming back at you.

3 - Arc Dodge. X-Wings lack movement actions (unless they pay for them). The Imperials should have a movement advantage the majority of the time. Wedge can't shoot what he can't see.

4 - Divide And Conquer: Don't let your opponent fly at you in formation. 9 attack dice (12 at range 1) is painful for regular Imperial forces to joust with - come at them head on and you will lost ships. Attack from multiple angles. Force your opponent to break formation and split their fire.

Sorry but if your losing constantly with imps it's not the faction it's you, you should step back and take a look at how you're flying them.

If your losing constantly then your using them wrong, go read some guides watch some videos, practice your moves so you know how each ship moves by heart, don't use both factions the same way for example while rebels can joust effectively thanks to shields but imps work better coming in from flanks etc, play to the factions strengths.

When people say one factions overpowered it's not true it's just that they suck , I'm sorry that sounds harsh but it's true I've won with both factions and so have plenty of others, if imps were totally outclassed they'd never appear in any tournament would they.

So what was/is good on Wes, Weg and Luke?

The imperial navy can't hang with the rebels like they used to. I can't tell you the last time I lost to an imperial list. They ot have two tricks in the playbook, swarm and arc dodging.

I'm not saying imperials need buffs or that Rebels are over powered. In fact, I didn't say that. Firesprays, shuttles, and defenders are all very good ships that can hang with any Rebel ship. Those ships are very different from every other imperial ship however.

So... what's the problem exactly?

The Empire have a LOT of trick up their sleaves, they're just not as straight-forward as the Rebels. If you limit yourself to Tie Fighter, Interceptor and Phantom, of course you'll think that you can just either swarm or arc-dodge. But there is other ships in the navy for other purposes. I almost exclusively play the Empire and never thought I was lacking choices, and I win more often than I lose.

OK, I disagree. Nothing has "tipped the way of the Rebels". The game is balanced, and an Imperial squad is just as capable of winning any given game as a Rebel squad.

When people say one factions overpowered it's not true it's just that they suck , I'm sorry that sounds harsh but it's true I've won with both factions and so have plenty of others, if imps were totally outclassed they'd never appear in any tournament would they.

And though I agree with this, I should make one remark:

Yes, the factions are balanced and both of them have equal chances to win... but I can't avoid to get the feeling that the imperial is much more limited than rebels in its selection of ships/upgrades/strategies.... In other words, though both have options to win, the Imperial side has less 'good options' to choose from than rebels for doing so.

Maybe it's a lack of useful upgrades, a lack of sinergies, or a lack of competitive pilots... I don't know, but that's my personal impression.

Want tanky? Decimators, shuttles, firesprays, and defenders.

Want a swarm? Tie fighters and howl runner are your best friends

Want a strong anchor with some support ships? The Phantom and interceptor say hello.

Bombs and ordinance? Bombers got you covered.

Want 3 High ps skill elite hard to pin down ships? Vader and interceptors are there for ya!

I flew a Jonus' Brothers list last night, and it did great! Imperials are super fun!

Not against 3 elite x wings. Wes wedge and Luke. Wes and Luke sitting at PS 10, Wes stripping tokens, Luke pounding off shields, wedge for the kill.

I faced it tonight, and got rocked.

3 xwings is not all that hard especially if we are talking against Phantoms.

The xwing cannot dance anywhere near like a Phantom.

Even if the phantom moves last against wedge and Wes, he still has a good idea where to go.

I feel the exact opposite and when I fly rebels seem to lose more.

Love the imperial ships for their high mobility.

Xwings are really losing their appeal I think with all these new high mobility ships that are coming out

Not against 3 elite x wings. Wes wedge and Luke. Wes and Luke sitting at PS 10, Wes stripping tokens, Luke pounding off shields, wedge for the kill.

I faced it tonight, and got rocked.

I don't mean to be insensitive or rude here, but just because you are having trouble beating Rebels (a valid personal concern for you of course) doesn't mean that the Empire in general can't beat Rebels. Nationals and GT results are showing otherwise. Even with PS10 Luke and Wes, X-Wings are relatively predictable unlike a Phantom, so even at PS9 Whisper should be able to move to avoid getting shot. If worried, keep your cloak up until you get into a better position. Use blocker TIEs to help keep the X's honest.

Want tanky? Decimators, shuttles, firesprays, and defenders.

Want a swarm? Tie fighters and howl runner are your best friends

Want a strong anchor with some support ships? The Phantom and interceptor say hello.

Bombs and ordinance? Bombers got you covered.

Want 3 High ps skill elite hard to pin down ships? Vader and interceptors are there for ya!

...and that's just scratching the surface.

• The Imperials have the most points-effective ship in the game in the Academy TIE.

• Bombers, Firesprays & Decimators are the only ships that can use the evade dice bypassing Bombs (until S&V comes around, anyway).

• Shuttles, Decimator, Firesprays and Phantoms can all take crew.

• Every Imperial ship bar the Shuttle has pilots which can take Elite Pilot Talents.

• TIE's and TIE Interceptors have a huge range of generic and names pilots - only the X-Wing has more.

• TIE's and TIE Interceptors have generics which are capable of taking Elite Pilot Talents - the only other ship which can do this is the A-Wing.

• Phantoms and Shuttles have Systems Upgrade slots

• Defenders, Shuttles and Firesprays have Cannon Upgrade slots.

• Both of the Imperials Wave 4 ships have meta-shfting abilities, unique to those particular ships

...and so forth, and so on. Pretty much the only thing the Rebels have that the Imperials don't is Astromechs. Which is fine, because the Imperials unique abilities are generally much more useful.

So what this thread essentially is, is nothing more than yet another self-absorbed, ill-informed, sky-is-falling complaint thread which stems more from the player's reluctance to use all the tools at their disposal than any fault of the game itself. What makes it even more amusing is that in another thread we're getting complaints that Imperials are "losing their identity as a faction".

Which is it, naysayers? Do you want Imperials to be able to play in a unique way, or do you just want them to do everything the Rebels can do, and more?

In his defense, I build my Rebs specifically to hunt Phantoms because I despise them so much. He did the whole splitting up deal, but because I was able to deploy last, I chose an opposite edge of the board and slow rolled in at an oblique angle. Once he cloaked the Phantom and turned in, he had no escape. I bank in and go for the throat while he just faces me and watches it happen. The rest of his squad had to fly through asteroids to get at me. PS10 Wes+VI+R3-A2 >any Phantom ever. Stressbot is an auto include on every Rebel list I fly because it dominates the Phantom. Once the expensive ship is down, the support falls to the gentle maneuvering X-wings so gracefully make. Also, Wedge had Predator, which I found is more reliable than PTL, at least for me.

Ya it may have worked well against your opponent, but I'm sorry to say that he doesn't sound that good flying the phantom.

Not to sound to rude, but since he was able to put his phantom in that position against three ships that can move no where near like a Phantom.

This three ship rebel build has a weakness and that is low PS ships with a Phantom

Now I'm not sure what buddy had for his squad, but if it were me, I'd h have sent my ties in head first. Block, action deny, and flanked with the phantom.

So though it works for some, this three ship xwing build is really not a good counter to Phantoms. Unless your opponent isn't very good at flying one

• The Imperials have the most points-effective ship in the game in the Academy TIE.

Minor point of contention: the Z-95 is actually a hair more efficient. If I'm remembering Juggler's mathwing numbers correct, anyway.

He isn't stating faction imbalance. He has just had some bad luck and has been disheartened from using the Imperial forces because of some of the losses he has suffered flying them . He flew it like he should have, very clean with no errors. I was able to anticipate the decloak due to his bearing and range.

I'm sorry but a Phantom and his squad can very easily deal with this 3 xwing build.

I agree with others. Maybe high mobility ships are not his thing. Nothing wrong with that, but i mean in this situation, I would send the rest of my squad had on and xwing cannot move like a Phantom, so it's not overly hard to have an idea where your going to turn in. Either way I'm going to do everything in my power to block, and make sure my other ships are the ideal ships for you to shoot at. While I get my phantom into position, with the high mobility of the phantom, he should be flying circled around the xwings. I know because I've flown the phantom a lot and against all kinds of lists

Stealing that!

The only faction I see being a little low on options is Scum, but that's to be expected since they're just coming out, and, I assume, will get caught up fairly quickly.

Minor point of contention: the Z-95 is actually a hair more efficient. If I'm remembering Juggler's mathwing numbers correct, anyway.

Maybe in basic jousting stats (although since the TIE can effectively ignore 50% of all potential Z-95 hits with the Evade action, maybe not). However what MJ's stats don't take into account the ship's manuever dials, barrel rolling etc. Take a look at the Z-95 vs TIE thread for more on the argument. Personally I think the TIE's manueverability and actions make it the more effective ship.

The imperial navy can't hang with the rebels like they used to. I can't tell you the last time I lost to an imperial list. They ot have two tricks in the playbook, swarm and arc dodging. I know the fluff supports a lack of diversity, but for gameplay, getting tabled everytime I break out the blue and grays is getting old.

The Emperor does not suffer incompetence.

This thread is funny. Complaining about a Wave 1 list being OP. Haha

This deserves to be said:

Jerjerrod: I assure you, Lord Vader, my men are fighting as hard as it can.
Vader: Perhaps I can find new ways to motivate them.
Jerjerrod: I tell you that the rebellion will be crushed as planned.
Vader: The Emperor does not share your optimistic appraisal of the situation.
Jerjerrod: But he asks the impossible! I need more men... or upgrades!
Vader: Then perhaps you can tell him when he arrives.
Jerjerrod: [alarmed] The Emperor's coming here?
Vader: That is correct, Commander, and he is most displeased with your apparent lack of progress.
Jerjerrod: We shall double our efforts.
Vader: I hope so, Commander, for your sake. The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am.

(I'm just kidding by the way )