I could have posted this on the EotE or AoR forums, but I think this one sees more traffic these days.

So my question is...

If you are dual wielding weapons, either 2 pistols or 2 lightsabers, do you have to spend 2 manoeuvers to draw both weapons, or does a Draw Manoeuver cover readying all weapons ?

Same for the talent "Quick Draw", could you draw both weapons with just 1 event of Quick Draw ?

Thanks

By RAW it is a maneuver for each weapon. So 2 maneuvers.

For quick draw, by Raw you still have to spend the maneuver to draw that second weapon if you want to draw both in a single turn.

I'm a bit nicer than that, so my house rule would allow both as a single maneuver, or both as an incidental, respectively.

Yep. This is why Quick Draw is essential for two-weapon gunslingers.

Then is there a real benefit do dual wielding 2 lightsabers instead of a Double-bladed Lightsaber ?

Double-bladed LS has Linked 1 ; so you can hit twice the target if you roll 2 advantages on a PP difficulty roll.
Dual wielding LS give "autofire 1" : so you can hit twice the target if you roll 2 advantages on a PPP difficulty roll.

Except that you can have 2 different LS crystals into your LS, I believe Dual Wield is subpar to double-bladed LS.

So if you have to spend 2 manoeuvers to draw both your LS, then dual wield becomes even worse.

What do you guys think ?

Yep. Double-bladed clearly wins on both the economy of actions and combat checks -- part of the reason I (and others) think it should require an Agility of 3, instead of 2, to use without hinderance.

Then is there a real benefit do dual wielding 2 lightsabers instead of a Double-bladed Lightsaber ?

A Lorrdian Crystal, Curved Hilt, Extended Hilt, and Superior on the first Saber, and whatever Crystal in the second (say Dantari for Strain rebuilding or Krayt for the Crit stackage).

For extra cheek, rules lawyer it up and Dual Wield Double-Bladed Sabers... nothing in the rules requires or even mentions you need to use two-hands on one.

Unwieldy 3 it is!

For extra cheek, rules lawyer it up and Dual Wield Double-Bladed Sabers... nothing in the rules requires or even mentions you need to use two-hands on one.

Four single-bladed lightsabers, each with different crystals — and modded to the max. Make them interlock with each other, so they can be used as a pair of extended-hilt single-bladed light sabers, or use one pair as a single double-bladed light saber (with different effects for each blade), or some combination thereof.

Yes, I’m already going there.

Beta-test the heck out of it

As a reminder, you can only activate item qualities on your off-hand saber if you hit and have two advantages. Conversely, that means that everything that helps you get successes and advantages (Accurate, curved hilt, Superior) should be on your primary lightsaber. I'm not sure if they even would have an effect on your secondary saber strike (KISS says probably not, with the roll already done.) The same goes for passive item qualities - you will likely only benefit from them on your primary saber.

What you should go for in the secondary saber is high base damage, crit rating (you can roll a crit once per saber) and active Item qualities.

Curiously, that means your shoto will likely be your primary weapon and the regular lightsaber the secondary.

Beta-test the heck out of it

As a reminder, you can only activate item qualities on your off-hand saber if you hit and have two advantages. Conversely, that means that everything that helps you get successes and advantages (Accurate, curved hilt, Superior) should be on your primary lightsaber. I'm not sure if they even would have an effect on your secondary saber strike (KISS says probably not, with the roll already done.) The same goes for passive item qualities - you will likely only benefit from them on your primary saber.

What you should go for in the secondary saber is high base damage, crit rating (you can roll a crit once per saber) and active Item qualities.

Curiously, that means your shoto will likely be your primary weapon and the regular lightsaber the secondary.

It gets less curious if you drop the "main hand/off hand" paradigm. Lead with the shoto, get 'em tangled up, and then come in for a clean strike with the saber.

Beta-test the heck out of it

As a reminder, you can only activate item qualities on your off-hand saber if you hit and have two advantages. Conversely, that means that everything that helps you get successes and advantages (Accurate, curved hilt, Superior) should be on your primary lightsaber. I'm not sure if they even would have an effect on your secondary saber strike (KISS says probably not, with the roll already done.) The same goes for passive item qualities - you will likely only benefit from them on your primary saber.

What you should go for in the secondary saber is high base damage, crit rating (you can roll a crit once per saber) and active Item qualities.

Curiously, that means your shoto will likely be your primary weapon and the regular lightsaber the secondary.

It gets less curious if you drop the "main hand/off hand" paradigm. Lead with the shoto, get 'em tangled up, and then come in for a clean strike with the saber.

I've got a Makashi Duelist in my game that's doing exactly this (he opted to change from a double-bladed saber after the Unwieldly quality got bumped to 3). Sadly, his dice are not exactly working with him, seeing as how his melee attacks are now at 3 difficulty for using two weapons vs. the 2 difficulty + 1 setback if he'd kept using the double-bladed saber.

Beta-test the heck out of it

As a reminder, you can only activate item qualities on your off-hand saber if you hit and have two advantages. Conversely, that means that everything that helps you get successes and advantages (Accurate, curved hilt, Superior) should be on your primary lightsaber. I'm not sure if they even would have an effect on your secondary saber strike (KISS says probably not, with the roll already done.) The same goes for passive item qualities - you will likely only benefit from them on your primary saber.

What you should go for in the secondary saber is high base damage, crit rating (you can roll a crit once per saber) and active Item qualities.

Curiously, that means your shoto will likely be your primary weapon and the regular lightsaber the secondary.

It gets less curious if you drop the "main hand/off hand" paradigm. Lead with the shoto, get 'em tangled up, and then come in for a clean strike with the saber.

I've got a Makashi Duelist in my game that's doing exactly this (he opted to change from a double-bladed saber after the Unwieldly quality got bumped to 3). Sadly, his dice are not exactly working with him, seeing as how his melee attacks are now at 3 difficulty for using two weapons vs. the 2 difficulty + 1 setback if he'd kept using the double-bladed saber.

Yeah, it would be an increase to the difficulty not a setback die, so it would be the same pool either way, though using a shoto does provide a boost die that could help land the initial hit or potentially trigger the secondary hit.

If you have two and you get disarmed you still have a saber.

Parry reduces the damage of both hits from a double-bladed saber becasue of how linked works. Linked is based on the damage reduced by Parry.

However it does not reduce the damage of the second weapon in a dual wield situation. The damage of the second hit in dual weild has nothing to do with the reduced damage of the first weapon hit. That's pretty powerful.

Edit: I'm rethinking this. I think Parry works the same on both. Whether it applies to the second hit or not is not quite clear but I'm leaning toward "not." Either way it's probably the same for both linked and two-weapon.

Parry is "per hit" so you'd have to activate it twice if struck by a double-bladed lightsaber or two lightsabers, as in each case it's two "hits." The Linked quality even notes that each activation constitutes a separate "hit" just as it does with Auto-Fire and the rules on two weapon fighting.

Yep. Double-bladed clearly wins on both the economy of actions and combat checks -- part of the reason I (and others) think it should require an Agility of 3, instead of 2, to use without hinderance.

Also don't forget that it could be significantly easier to find a single lightsaber crystal rather than looking for two of them.

Yep. Double-bladed clearly wins on both the economy of actions and combat checks -- part of the reason I (and others) think it should require an Agility of 3, instead of 2, to use without hinderance.

Also don't forget that it could be significantly easier to find a single lightsaber crystal rather than looking for two of them.

Valid point, particularly for the nicer grade of lightsaber crystals like the Mephite and Krayt Dragon Pearl. Finding even one of those during the Rebellion Era would be a hefty reward in and of itself given their cost/rarity and potential power. Finding multiples would be quite the task indeed, particularly since the most reliable way to acquire multiple Krayt Dragon Pearls is from the belly of a Krayt Dragon, which in the lore is no small feat.

Then is there a real benefit do dual wielding 2 lightsabers instead of a Double-bladed Lightsaber ?

Double-bladed LS has Linked 1 ; so you can hit twice the target if you roll 2 advantages on a PP difficulty roll.

Dual wielding LS give "autofire 1" : so you can hit twice the target if you roll 2 advantages on a PPP difficulty roll.

Except that you can have 2 different LS crystals into your LS, I believe Dual Wield is subpar to double-bladed LS.

So if you have to spend 2 manoeuvers to draw both your LS, then dual wield becomes even worse.

What do you guys think ?

Why would the double bladed saber have less difficulty than two sabers? If i use two sabers while engaged would the difficulty not be 2 as per the dual wielding section in the combat chapter of the book?

Then is there a real benefit do dual wielding 2 lightsabers instead of a Double-bladed Lightsaber ?

Double-bladed LS has Linked 1 ; so you can hit twice the target if you roll 2 advantages on a PP difficulty roll.

Dual wielding LS give "autofire 1" : so you can hit twice the target if you roll 2 advantages on a PPP difficulty roll.

Except that you can have 2 different LS crystals into your LS, I believe Dual Wield is subpar to double-bladed LS.

So if you have to spend 2 manoeuvers to draw both your LS, then dual wield becomes even worse.

What do you guys think ?

Why would the double bladed saber have less difficulty than two sabers? If i use two sabers while engaged would the difficulty not be 2 as per the dual wielding section in the combat chapter of the book?

Difficulty for using two separate lightsabers is increased as per the Two-Weapon Fighting rules.

The second sentence in the second-to-last paragraph outright says the attacker increases the final difficulty of the combat check.

That's probably a part of why the double-bladed lightsaber got its Unwieldy quality increased from 2 to 3, as otherwise there generally wouldn't be much of a reason to not use a double-saber vs. two different 'sabers from a mechanical standpoint.

Then again, the two-weapon combat rules probably weren't written with Jar'Kai practitioners in mind, but rather folks using two blasters or two vibroblades or even a blaster and vibroblade combo. Could be there will be a Jar'Kai based spec in a future sourcebook that makes dual-wielding a pair of lightsabers a more mechanically appealing option by way of new talents.

But the two separate lightsabers use the same skill so the difficulty would only be increased by 1 not 2, correct? Giving me a dice pool 2 difficulty dice not 3 while i'm engaged. This is how how the second to the last paragraph reads for me under two weapon combat. Am i missing something?

The base difficulty is 2 for engaged melee/brawl/lightsaber attacks, so when you increase it by 1, the difficulty becomes 3 dice.

Thanks. I see what i was overlooking. The difficulty chart i was looking at was for ranged weapons.

Not trying to be pedantic but it's Two-Weapon Combat not Duel Wielding. It's a good idea to keep the nomenclature correct at the game table because Duel Wielding in other systems (D&D) works much different than Two-Weapon Combat does in FFGSW and can possibly lead to misunderstandings.

So what happens if you bought quickdraw more then once?