And, did Caleb know this?

This kind of deck will always appear. Since game have unlimited draw ans unlimited hand size thid kind of holes will always come out. This is not tournament game so is not really important. Personally I dont play this kind of deck…

Someone started a thread about it in the deckbuilding forums here if you want more discussion: http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/123119-mono-lore-combo-beat-dol-guldur-nighmare-turn-two-and-others-scenarios-on-turn-one/

yea i really wouldnt get any enjoyment out of that whatsoever. pass

Yeah these decks are just awful and broken. Who wants to win turn 1? Who wants to win before the encounter itself can even do anything? Who wants to win so easily and not scrape by sometimes?

These are broken silly combos that no one should be playing and I hope they do errata a card or two to stop stupid stuff like this but at the same time don't think its all that necessary as who in their right mind (and an actual legit fan of this game) would ever use a deck like this? This isn't MTG.....

Hello,

I'm the creator of this deck. And I know some other silly combos that work in this game (but this one is the only one who work when you play alone)

This kind of deck will always appear. Since game have unlimited draw ans unlimited hand size thid kind of holes will always come out. This is not tournament game so is not really important. Personally I dont play this kind of deck…

I think that restrict draw or size hands is not the natural way. It is all about balanced card. Don't offer cards that gave you 3 resources for 0, or so many drawing spell for 0. I don't see the point of editing cards like legacy of numenor, deep knowledge, daeron's rune of we are not idle. Even outside my combo deck the just are too powerful.

Yeah these decks are just awful and broken. Who wants to win turn 1? Who wants to win before the encounter itself can even do anything? Who wants to win so easily and not scrape by sometimes?

These are broken silly combos that no one should be playing and I hope they do errata a card or two to stop stupid stuff like this but at the same time don't think its all that necessary as who in their right mind (and an actual legit fan of this game) would ever use a deck like this? This isn't MTG.....

You seem to have some rancor against some players. What the point to direspect some other way to play the game? Because yeah I like to play combo, in LoTR or MTG. But I want to play it in the fair way. That mean that combo are not more powerful than others decks, just have others purposes. It just make some diversity. So I can play them, or another of my thirty decks, a number that can prove that I'm a real fan of the game.

But yes this deck is not made for be played. Except when you play it for the first time it is boring to play it again an encounter deck. I do it because I want to create some kind of "perfect deck". It is an achievement. This quest end when I beat even Dol Guldur in solo in nightmare mode, the only one that I can't win until now. So I report my results.

I agree that errata could be great. For stop powerful decks (this one and some others) we need to cut off some powerful cards:

- We are not idle should not be able to add more than one resource. And could also not be played without exhaust at least one dwarf. So can be writed:

"Exhaust one dwarf character you control to add one resource to a hero pool. Draw a card." OR

"You may exhaust one dwarf character you control to add one resource to a hero pool. Draw a card."

- Deep Knowledge and Legacy of numenor need to be totally rewrited to be safe for the game. If the doesn't we still can play some crazy dwarf or outlands decks that bring back their deck into play in a few (3/4) turns and win almost all of the time.

It could be rewrited like this:

'Deep knowledge: Doomed 1. Each player draw one card"

'Legacy of Numenor: Doomed 1. Each player add one resource to one of his hero pool"

They still be great for multiplayers and can be used for do more things on the turn one in some deck who need to speed up (the one I say just before).

Sorry didn't mean any disrespect so I apologise for my somewhat heated last post. It obviously took a lot of thought and work to make the deck and I do appreciate what you made and its capability. Like you said yourself though the deck is not made to be played. This was more or less my main point; that no one would really enjoying playing this deck so whats the point. It is indeed an achievement though, very impressed at your deckbuilding skills. Would love to see some other cool decks (that don't win in a turn ) you've made! Sorry for vaguely implying that you aren't a legit fan of the game but you have proven you clearly are by the mere fact that you made this deck just for the sake of it and don't really even play it. I'm also glad you agree that this should not be possible and that some cards should be errated.

Hey man you find good combo and is cool. I respect your skill. This kind of stuff happen every year in this game and as I say nothing is special now about it since the rules if the game allowed.

Yes designer should do better job for balance but with unlimited draw and unlimitited hand size almost impossible to keep some balance.

Anyway good job and ley Caleb see that.

As I say years ago: we need limit draw and hand size and that will help a lot to prevent this kind of deck appear in the future

Sorry didn't mean any disrespect so I apologise for my somewhat heated last post. It obviously took a lot of thought and work to make the deck and I do appreciate what you made and its capability. Like you said yourself though the deck is not made to be played. This was more or less my main point; that no one would really enjoying playing this deck so whats the point. It is indeed an achievement though, very impressed at your deckbuilding skills. Would love to see some other cool decks (that don't win in a turn ) you've made! Sorry for vaguely implying that you aren't a legit fan of the game but you have proven you clearly are by the mere fact that you made this deck just for the sake of it and don't really even play it. I'm also glad you agree that this should not be possible and that some cards should be errated.

No offense. I see a lot of LoTR players who quit Magic because they don't like it competitive aspect. For my own that my favorite part of the game . That why I use some unusual stuff for creating my decks.

But even if I want to create the best deck I also want to be challenged. That why I still continue to play against Dol Guldur nightmare, no matter if I often loose (or concede) on the first turn. If there is no errata I will keep continue playing with some others decks (I really like Glorfindel spirit / Boromir tactics / Elrond and Glorfindel spirit / Sam / Pippin lore) and try to defeat it .

Hey man you find good combo and is cool. I respect your skill. This kind of stuff happen every year in this game and as I say nothing is special now about it since the rules if the game allowed.

Yes designer should do better job for balance but with unlimited draw and unlimitited hand size almost impossible to keep some balance.

Anyway good job and ley Caleb see that.

As I say years ago: we need limit draw and hand size and that will help a lot to prevent this kind of deck appear in the future

Until now all I can see is deck combo that make you win with a combo on the 4th turns or more. That mean they can be defeat before this. But they still have been stopped with an errata on one cards.

Here we don't have a special cards. It is just because they are so many draw spells for free that are printed that you can have what you want. Because there is also two powerful resources adding (legacy of numenor and we are not idle) there is plenty of way to win (instantly or not) the game.

What do you mean by limit draw? If you can give me real proposition I can test them and tell you if this disabled combos or not.

Like you cannot draw more then 4 or 5 card per round. And cannot have more then maybe 8 cards in you hand in the end of the round. That make game more stable. You have not enough time to create the GOD Hand. God hand is term mean you have some unbreakable comb in your hand. All serious game have that rule. Many of those game lie AGOT for example start with unlimited draw or hand size but eventually is always come to change that rules to able keep a balance. Balance is really important for the competitive game. Yes they can put errata on cards but much better to change the rules as i say and cards will not need errata so often.

If the hand size were to be controlled, it would need to be a strict form of control (e.g., players cannot have more than X cards in hand at any time). This way, players cannot manipulate the discard pile by drawing a ton of cards and then choosing which to discard, in the event that some rule forced people to return to hand size of X at the end of a round, or something like that. It would have to be a rule stating that hand size can never be above X, so if a card says to draw 2 cards, but you are only 1 away from the limit, you simply only draw one instead of two. There is too much possibility for discard pile abuse if the rule were to be a "discard down to X at the end of the round" type of thing.

I agree that Deep Knowledge and Legacy of Numenor are powerful cards. I have been adding them to almost every deck that I create. Legacy of Numenor is more powerful, in my opinion. Having twice the amount of resources that you would usually have on turn one makes for some very explosive starts.

All serious game have that rule

Wow. So can you name any serious game? Because no one of the TCG I know use this system.

The only erratum they could (should ?) have ever published is add:

"Victory 1" on will of the west.

still decent and does what it is supposed to, barely changes the card. And forget all infinite loops !

Until now all I can see is deck combo that make you win with a combo on the 4th turns or more. That mean they can be defeat before this. But they still have been stopped with an errata on one cards.

Here we don't have a special cards. It is just because they are so many draw spells for free that are printed that you can have what you want.

Agree with Fanfan's post above mine, Will of the West is the major player enabling this (and other) broken combos. It's not the hand size that gives rise to these things, it is the ability to indefinitely recycle your *whole* deck.

Will of the West Is. A. Special. Card.

Yes agree here. Will ofvthe west is broken. This card one of the broken cards from begin. I still believe this card should be just ban

I think this card is "broken" in the decks that accent on this loop thingy and nearly useless in any other deck. Sounds like a huge design fault to me.

I only read the strategy quickly, but if I remember correctly, exhausting Bombur only counts as exhausting one dwarf. He only counts as two for the purpose of determining how many dwarves you control.

I only read the strategy quickly, but if I remember correctly, exhausting Bombur only counts as exhausting one dwarf. He only counts as two for the purpose of determining how many dwarves you control.

I don't know if this has any relevance to make the deck working... In any case, I congratulate the designer of the deck for his powerful imagination when designing. Nevertheless, this kind of deck is no fun for me. I find the challenge of managing the avaliable cards to win more rewarding than the satisfaction of gaming the game.

Well, yes, We Are Not Idle grants only 1 resource for exhausting Bombur unfortunately, but was it implied otherwise in the article somewhere?

Well, yes, We Are Not Idle grants only 1 resource for exhausting Bombur unfortunately, but was it implied otherwise in the article somewhere?

I don't know, I read it quickly and thought it could be the case. I wanted to clarify in case it was the case.

Until now all I can see is deck combo that make you win with a combo on the 4th turns or more. That mean they can be defeat before this. But they still have been stopped with an errata on one cards.

Here we don't have a special cards. It is just because they are so many draw spells for free that are printed that you can have what you want.

Agree with Fanfan's post above mine, Will of the West is the major player enabling this (and other) broken combos. It's not the hand size that gives rise to these things, it is the ability to indefinitely recycle your *whole* deck.

Will of the West Is. A. Special. Card.

Yes agree here. Will ofvthe west is broken. This card one of the broken cards from begin. I still believe this card should be just ban

The only erratum they could (should ?) have ever published is add:

"Victory 1" on will of the west.

still decent and does what it is supposed to, barely changes the card. And forget all infinite loops !

Again : If Will of the West is nerfed, nothing will change, you'll just took a little longer and will have a very slight chance of bad encounter draw, leading in very little case to a loss. But this is definitly not the main card to be nerfed.

You even quote it ! it is the over abundant and powerfull draw cards that are, as a whole, enabling this type of deck.

Entering the Loop is not the main problem here, it is one, true, but entering the Loop turn 1 is what Rouxxxor was warning us about.

Will of the West

Cost 1

Spirit

Event

You can only play 1 copy of Will of the West each round.

Refresh Action: Choose a player. Shuffle that player's discard pile back into his deck.

It doesn't matter how many cards you have in your hand unless you can pay for them.

If you draw your whole deck, you can play a nice number of cards thanks to resource acceleration.

But you will run out of money. You *need* the loop to make this break the game. Otherwise you end up with lots of cards in hand, a strong starting position, but certainly no auto-win.

Try it. Take Will of the West out of this deck and see if you can win every time.

I have played with Rouxxxor and with 13nrv, first one with Outlands and second one with doomed dwarf.

We may have lost 1 or 2 game because of stupid game-over-nightmare cards, but we always won by turn 3 otherwise.

And we never used Will of the West.

This deck is special because it rely on the loop.

A turn 3 win is great. That is “functioning at maximum capacity.” A deck that does this consistently is a cut above the average deck, in terms of power. Wins on turns 4, 5, 6 are not uncommon, and that is only a couple rounds of difference. We beat The Steward’s Fear the other day with a full table’s worth of players, on round 5, and half of the decks were medium-strength decks.

But what you’re describing is not breaking the game. Turn 1 wins are broken. That bypasses the normal framework of the game (like with Will of the West + Ravens of the Mountain recycling). Fix Will of the West and you fix the problem. As for your turn 3 wins, we already have general consensus that something like Outlands is overpowered, so if you do an Outlands and this mono-Lore draw deck, sure you’re going to have crazy power on the table. But you don’t have to amend the basic structure of the game (i.e., add a hand size limit) because nothing is broken.