This shot was not meant for you.

Evil and DBL I think all of us have a legitimate (for lack of a better term) argument. We all agree that the stats (except the 750 and enc 2) are for a single pistol, It just doesn't make since that you would divide them and lose power for a single shot pistol the to quote the book "is almost invariably lethal". Not that I would ever purchase them anyways.

I am retired military and a gun enthusiast. A longer barrel means more accuracy, but also increases range. I have seen shot guns with 6 foot barrels and the range and pattern (accuracy) increased to the point of shorter ranged deer hunting rifle accuracy. What details would increase the enc of a short ranged weapon? I can tell you that when I was on guard duty on the flight line that the M-16 fully loaded is pretty light enc, but put 210 rounds in your magazines in your ammo pouches and you feel like someone is hanging on your back. On a heavy blaster pistol, which is enc 2, you have a larger power pack, therefore it is heavier.

But lets argue that heavy and light blasters are made of lighter material. A wooden and metal black powder single shot pistol is heavier than a plastic and polimer Glock, until you fully load that Glock then the Glock is heavier.

As i have said in this post, I agree that the stats are for one and leads me to believe that the price is for one, the enc is iffy. If the devs don't get back to us then the GM can house rule what he sees as best.

It is a specialty item. It is a single shot accurate pistol used in duels. If the cost seems high it is for a reason. These weapons tend to be extremely well made hence the reason they have the Accurate quality. There's no reason a single shot specialty pistol should cost less than other pistols. You don't buy it for a regular sidearm unless you are going for a certain cachet like Emil Fouchan of the movie Hard Target with his Thompson Center Arms Contender .

This a specialty item that the description states is almost invariably sold in pairs. The TC you have pictured is longer ranged than a 45acp 1911 (Which is not a medium ranged pistol) and is made for hunting deer at medium range, I have shot it, not even close to

Which are only good to about 20 paces. These Pistols are specialty only because of the engravings and materials. They are the same as a regular black powder of the times.

The point I am making is that although there is not an S on the end of pistol does not mean that the price is for a single, as you need to combine the description and the chart to have raw (hate to say this but it is like a christian quoting one verse out of the bible and ignoring other quotes that clarify), but the description states that they are almost always sold in pairs. Which clarifies the rules as written. One s missing of a item does not constitute a single pistol when the description states that they are ALMOST ALWAYS sold as pairs. The description by definition should be clarifying what most likely should happen which in this case what you are getting. I don't agree with your thoughts on shoes, my grandmother had one leg and bought one shoe all the time. You should have seen the sales person's face when it happened. It caused confusion. You want to quote raw at this time then you need to look at the bigger picture. The description, which is clarification of dueling pistols, and the chart, which shows price and stats, do not jive. To me looking at the description 99.9% percent of the time the duelers are sold as a pair, not 50% or less. So to me the devs should have priced it as a pair but showed the stats for one. It would have been as simple as saying that in the description.

The common sense on this discussion is cutting the rest of the stats which are clearly for a single pistol and that's where I turn to you are correct because of the rest of the stats. It is not cost effective to cut all of those stats and charge that much.

I don't see how you can claim though that the s doesn't matter, it does, this is the English language we can't just pick and choose what we want grammar in this case to mean if we want to understand each other

Evil and DBL I think all of us have a legitimate (for lack of a better term) argument. We all agree that the stats (except the 750 and enc 2) are for a single pistol, It just doesn't make since that you would divide them and lose power for a single shot pistol the to quote the book "is almost invariably lethal". Not that I would ever purchase them anyways.

I am retired military and a gun enthusiast. A longer barrel means more accuracy, but also increases range. I have seen shot guns with 6 foot barrels and the range and pattern (accuracy) increased to the point of shorter ranged deer hunting rifle accuracy. What details would increase the enc of a short ranged weapon? I can tell you that when I was on guard duty on the flight line that the M-16 fully loaded is pretty light enc, but put 210 rounds in your magazines in your ammo pouches and you feel like someone is hanging on your back. On a heavy blaster pistol, which is enc 2, you have a larger power pack, therefore it is heavier.

But lets argue that heavy and light blasters are made of lighter material. A wooden and metal black powder single shot pistol is heavier than a plastic and polimer Glock, until you fully load that Glock then the Glock is heavier.

As i have said in this post, I agree that the stats are for one and leads me to believe that the price is for one, the enc is iffy. If the devs don't get back to us then the GM can house rule what he sees as best.

Like i said I shot that TC as a pistol so I had to look up the price. The TC pictured above can be converted to a rifle from a pistol to back again, and has interchangeable barrels to change the caliber if you wish to spend the money for the extra barrels. The price on it is about the same price as my Kimber 1911 ultra carry 2 with crimson trace grips. About 1,200.

A desert eagle 50cal is around 1600 to 1700 (heavy combat pistol). A 1911 Mil Spec 45 ACP is around 700, and that's mid range. 750 for dueling pistols in game are high range of the pistols but only have a couple stats that are better than the other pistols.

I don't think bringing real life gun in to compare the in game guns is a good comparison at all.

I don't think bringing real life gun in to compare the in game guns is a good comparison at all.

In this game? It's foolishness.

DBL but the description states almost always sold in pairs, and that is rules as written also (sorry but its the truth and describes how the pistols are normally sold, so why the devs go against what the wrote in the description, the chart as you state is going against the raw). I agree with enc not being only weight but bulk also. Look at the pic of the dueling pistols and tell me that they are as bulky as the other heavy blasters pictured in any of the rule books.

DBL but the description states almost always sold in pairs, and that is rules as written also (sorry but its the truth and describes how the pistols are normally sold, so why the devs go against what the wrote in the description, the chart as you state is going against the raw). I agree with enc not being only weight but bulk also. Look at the pic of the dueling pistols and tell me that they are as bulky as the other heavy blasters pictured in any of the rule books.

Where are you getting the devs going against what they wrote? Listing the credit value of a pistol does not contradict it being sold as a pair.

Also again attacking the stats doesn't get you anywhere. RAW isn't what you think makes more sense it's what's actually written.

As for insisting the value must, for some obscure reason, match usefullness in contrast to other pistols that's absurd. I can't recall the armor name but there is a hide armor that is awful in the recent colonist book and it's quite pricy in contrast to other armors with equal or even better stats. The reason for that high price is the same reason it is here, they're fancy items for the wealthy, not neccessarily built as much for function in the field but instead for being flashy and ornate.

Guys I don't want you thinking that I don't think think that the price as stated is wrong. I just think the devs have caused a lot of confusion with their statement in the description or could have done a better job with that one item on the chart. Well there is more than one item (the bionic legs and eyes also, but I would only uses the legs or eyes if I lost one or both, there is another thread for both)

Well then that's be problem you made it sound like you where disagreeing that the intent was two rather than one. Houseruling it to be more reasonable for your group is fine, I'm debating purely on what is and isn't RAW not what should or shouldn't be.

Alright, I've spent some time comparing Blaster Pistol stats, and I've come to my conclusion:

It's stated to be a Single Shot, Accurate, Short Range, Heavy Blast Pistol.

To wit: 750 is the cost for one and Encum 2 is appropriate.

Though I will note, it's less appealing than Heavy Blaster Pistol as it requires constant reload and has less Hard Points (the damage is pretty easy to mod up to as is an automatic Advantage (or 2) which IMO is better than a Boost Die).

And what is actually written is almost invariably sold as pairs, no where does it state that the price of the dueling pistol is singular. The definitions and descriptions come into play, BTW a description is another way to define something. I was in the military 23 years and the military follows rules as written everyday. My job at the end of my long and successful career (I was in the top 3 enlisted ranks and discuss how good you have to be to do that if you would like) was to interpret what is written and enforce those written rules. You cannot take one item from those written rules and ignore the other rules that go along with it which is what you my friend are doing. I was trying not to upset anyone and actually agree that if the stats were for 2 that it would not make sense, and it doesn't. Don't get upset because my points were valid. Going by the chart and the description, I would have the player role for negotiation, coolness, or coercion against the NPC to barter NOT SPLITTING the matching pair now because of the chart and the description. You fail the roll and the NPC does not ant to split the pair up and it will be an extremely difficult roll. So thanks for getting upset and pointing out to me that only the charts are RAW.

Evil and DBL it would have been a lot easier if the devs had stated what you had to sit down and figure out.

Evil and DBL it would have been a lot easier if the devs had stated what you had to sit down and figure out.

At least the rules are consistent across the Core books... just don't try to learn them from the Beginner games.

Again what rules are being ignored? I get it they're usually sold as pairs... So what?

As for your claim that it doesn't say anywhere that they're sold singulary that's a bold faced lie. It wouldn't have said sometimes if it meant always. The listing states a singular pistol, period. You have to hold he position that singular means multiple to justify what you're saying or that it's a typo, either way you spin it making pistol mean pistols is not RAW. Again if they're always sold as pairs in your game so be it, the raw would then dictate that the pair would be 1,500 since a "pistol" is listed at 750.

Also please stop referencing your job, I get you worked with guns but that really has nothing to do with the discussion. The simple fact is going by the RAW most merchants won't sell one by itself but that each pistol is (as the chart which is RAW says) 750 credits meaning that set sale price is going to be x2 that.

I'm still waiting to hear what rule you claim I'm ignoring as I never once disagreed that they're usually sold in pairs.

DBL, I am sorry but RAW is whats in the book and you need to understand that separating the fluff from the raw is important. Like I said, I have paid attention to what everyone has said. I see a mistake between the description and the chart but to me the desciption sould state why the chart is set up the way it is. If the charts were more important thn the description then just put a book out with just the charts and **** the other stuff all the other rules. The chart is there to augment and organize the descriptions. Evil has stated he looked at the other weapons. I have emailed the devs. It just doesn't make since that they would state something in the description but not clarify it anywhere. The chart and the description should go hand in hand. The fluff would be the barrels glowing at night. Who cares about that unless you are in a fire fight at night. Everything is important for raw, the charts, the description, what you roll and so on. Fluff is to make it more interesting to read the rules so you don't feel like you are reading a book on math or something similar.

Yes RAW is what's in the book, Ive stated nothing that isn't in the book. The chart says pistol, theirs your distinction if you wish to ignore it that's on you and perfectly fine for your game as the point is to have fun but let's not pretend that singular means anything other than singular.

Again there is no contradiction here between the Chart and the fluff on this particular matter the chart says each pistol costs 750 and the fluff says usually theyre sold as a pair... Where's the contradiction in that? If I go to the store and they're selling a 24 pack of top ramen for 10 cents each I don't assume the pack costs 10cents I do the math and know it costs 2.40

Again what rules are being ignored? I get it they're usually sold as pairs... So what?

As for your claim that it doesn't say anywhere that they're sold singulary that's a bold faced lie. It wouldn't have said sometimes if it meant always. The listing states a singular pistol, period. You have to hold he position that singular means multiple to justify what you're saying or that it's a typo, either way you spin it making pistol mean pistols is not RAW. Again if they're always sold as pairs in your game so be it, the raw would then dictate that the pair would be 1,500 since a "pistol" is listed at 750.

Also please stop referencing your job, I get you worked with guns but that really has nothing to do with the discussion. The simple fact is going by the RAW most merchants won't sell one by itself but that each pistol is (as the chart which is RAW says) 750 credits meaning that set sale price is going to be x2 that.

I'm still waiting to hear what rule you claim I'm ignoring as I never once disagreed that they're usually sold in pairs.

Again where does it state in writing singular, I have showed you invariably in pairs. No where does it state the word singular. I referenced my job because is as to read and enforce raw. So yes it adds credibility. You are being stubborn about it possibly being a mistake and have not read entire posts that have been made. Or I would not have had to repeat myself. There is nowhere that says singular and you my friend are not looking at the big picture. There is more than just charts in the book. The chart is there to organize the description and place stats so it easier to read. Raw in the description states one thing and the chart states another. The point of dueling pistols is so neither dueler has an advantage of the other in said duel. Hypothetically, you bring your inaccurate dueling pistol and I'll bring my more accurate heavy blaster and duel. You better be good cause you only have one shot LOL.

You must think that 55 mph is just a suggestion cause the cops only pull you over if you are 11mph over the speed limit. Cause the driver's ed book is the law.

Again what rules are being ignored? I get it they're usually sold as pairs... So what?

As for your claim that it doesn't say anywhere that they're sold singulary that's a bold faced lie. It wouldn't have said sometimes if it meant always. The listing states a singular pistol, period. You have to hold he position that singular means multiple to justify what you're saying or that it's a typo, either way you spin it making pistol mean pistols is not RAW. Again if they're always sold as pairs in your game so be it, the raw would then dictate that the pair would be 1,500 since a "pistol" is listed at 750.

Also please stop referencing your job, I get you worked with guns but that really has nothing to do with the discussion. The simple fact is going by the RAW most merchants won't sell one by itself but that each pistol is (as the chart which is RAW says) 750 credits meaning that set sale price is going to be x2 that.

I'm still waiting to hear what rule you claim I'm ignoring as I never once disagreed that they're usually sold in pairs.

Again where does it state in writing singular, I have showed you invariably in pairs. No where does it state the word singular. I referenced my job because is as to read and enforce raw. So yes it adds credibility. You are being stubborn about it possibly being a mistake and have not read entire posts that have been made. Or I would not have had to repeat myself. There is nowhere that says singular and you my friend are not looking at the big picture. There is more than just charts in the book. The chart is there to organize the description and place stats so it easier to read. Raw in the description states one thing and the chart states another. The point of dueling pistols is so neither dueler has an advantage of the other in said duel. Hypothetically, you bring your inaccurate dueling pistol and I'll bring my more accurate heavy blaster and duel. You better be good cause you only have one shot LOL.

You must think that 55 mph is just a suggestion cause the cops only pull you over if you are 11mph over the speed limit. Cause the driver's ed book is the law.

Again you're not pointing out any contradiction just because something is usually sold as a pair does not mean it's price listing can't tell you how much each half of the pair is especially when the title and stats all reference a pistol... I mean if you want to completely ignore the English language sure but that doesn't make it right.

I mean we need to agree on what the word pistol means, if it means multiple pistols then you're right, if not then you're not unless there's a typo

Again you didn't read, I stated my job at the end of my career was to read and decipher rules. Yes there is no s on pistol in the chart, you have stated that. And I have agreed to what you are saying about the price and the stats.

You choose to ignore the description and state that they are not raw only the chart is. I stated they are equally important.

"I don't care what the description says"

Is that not what you stated? If you answer yes to that it means you are not concerned with other pertinent information in the book, don't talk to me about the English language, I know I have made typos here, this is a forum not a report for work or an English paper. And yes I have done a lot of both in my life time

I typed that straight from the book... but whateves, you need a scan?

Here:

Thank you evil, now the chart does not say anywhere that the dueling pistol purchase is singular (why would dueling pistols have an encumbrance of 2 also when all pistols that are light have encumbrance of 1?

So now, not only the price is for two, but the stats are for two as well? So are we to halve damage for one also, must they be dual-wielded? The answers to these are presumably no, but they illustrate what lies down that road. You're now creating a scenario in which some of the numbers in the row are for two of the item and some numbers in the row are for one. It's getting very messy. All because the text says "almost invariably sold as a matched pair". (Apologies for using the word 'typically' earlier, I misremembered). "Almost invariably" is not the same as "invariably".

I think it's simple enough - the developers didn't want to introduce a whole load of layout or interpretation inconsistencies into their standard chart format and just left the entry singular as it says ("Duelling Pistol", singular) and confined the fact that they're usually sold as a pair to the description.

Pistol is singular. Pistols is plural. The shoes analogy is a bad one because any clothing entry in the book that listed them would say "shoes", not "shoe".

Note that other items that you buy in multiples are listed as multiples. Shock gloves says "Shock gloves", not "Shock glove". Backhand shock gloves (Far Horizons) explicitly referred to as a pair in their description are listed as "Backhand shock gloves" plural. Magnacuffs - again sold as a pair, are listed as "Magnacuffs" in their entry plural. I'm willing to bet that when Cad Bane's jet boots are finally included somewhere, it says "boots" plural.

You choose to ignore the description and state that they are not raw only the chart is. I stated they are equally important.

They are both important. But they are not incompatible. Therefore there is no especial reason to alter one in favour of the other. The stat row lists the price for one. The description says they should normally be sold in twos. So you make the PC buy two of the things in the stat block. The description and stat line are not at odds with each other.

Again you didn't read, I stated my job at the end of my career was to read and decipher rules. Yes there is no s on pistol in the chart, you have stated that. And I have agreed to what you are saying about the price and the stats.

You choose to ignore the description and state that they are not raw only the chart is. I stated they are equally important.

"I don't care what the description says"

Is that not what you stated? If you answer yes to that it means you are not concerned with other pertinent information in the book, don't talk to me about the English language, I know I have made typos here, this is a forum not a report for work or an English paper. And yes I have done a lot of both in my life time

I read just fine sir, your job has no bearing on this. That would be a fallacy called an argument from authority.

I never choose to ignore the description, please stop lying. The description makes no mention of the price, none what so ever thus my comment about not caring what it said was because of this. The chart is, as you agreed, for one gun, thus the price is, shock, for one gun. This does not make the description ignored, I have no clue why you seem to think it does.

As knasserll said since he got to it before me if it says they're normally sold in two then you BUY TWO. Again where is the contradiction there?

As for the English remark I wasn't poking fun at any grammatical errors you may have had, I was on my mobile at the time and lord knows auto correct butchered some of my posts as well. I was commenting on the spelling of the word pistol in the stat block indicating it being a singular price, if it was not a singular price it would say pistols. Note once more since you seem to keep thinking saying such is ignoring the description, a singular price on a two piece set means you'd have to pay that price twice if it was sold that way. Ie two would be 1,500 not 750, this is clear if you just bother to understand that pistol means pistol not pistols and that if a merchant insists on selling them as a two piece set then you're forced to buy 2 thus paying double what you normally would.

I used a more modern firearm because I thought it was more relevant than old style dueling pistols, being that when the older flintlocks and such were being sold in pairs there was not a whole lot different from a dueling flintlock pistol and a regular flintlock pistol. In fact, considering the workmanship that went into those some of those dueling kits, I would daresay the pistols were better made in some cases than other more regular pistols and therefore would have cost more on an individual basis. Some people seem to have an issue with the 750 cost for some reason, beyond the interpretations of reading the fluff and the stat line.

I doubt it will mean much in the grand scheme of things. If you don't like the cost or feel it is for two, then run it that way. It won't affect me or anyone else. Some people feel that the stats are for a single item in each case (which they have been and to think otherwise would make this the only outlier), others do not. Personally I think that had the developers meant to imply the cost was for two they would have used clearer language than "almost invariably" and would have just come out saying the "listed cost is for two pistols". Just my take though.