Ok so I don't have a way to play x-wing at a store and vassal really isn't my thing...I have one friend that I got into x-wing but I have all the ships we just share. He's built tons of squads but is starting to get frustrated! He says there is too much chance with dice and can work hard to line up a ship but still may not get any hits. Obviously dice play a roll but how do I get him to realize how much skill plays in this awesome game? What can I to to keep having someone to play with? Also he compared it to playing a FPS video game and lining up a shot then saying 50% the gun will fire and 25% the enemy will take damage, dumb I think but that's his thought...please help lol!

The last 2 games he has rolled terrible but he used both YTs so not much flying thought needed and just 2 attacks, that has prob not helped him...

to be honest it sounds like your friend isnt really into it deep down.

You have to sort of be behind a game in your heart to play it or want to play it with conviction.

I'd put an add up to find local players or go to a gaming club rather than make your friend play a game hes not that into.

Yeah, I'm with Gadge on this one. You have to be really in to X-wing to play it. It sounds like your friend really just isn't in to the game.

You gave him two Falcons. Of course it just turned into dice rolling for him.

Give him interceptors.

I will say that if he isn't into it, then it will suck.

....but, trying to keep you regular player in the game? Build some lists that dish out TL and/or Focus. If it's the bad die roll that he hates, then get things that allow him re-rolls. That cuts down on the bad dice luck. Also, maybe let him win a few times

Dutch Vander is pretty cool. Go with him and R7-T1. Garven Dreis is alright. Modly Crow might be better.

People withouth the intuitive math knowledge shouldn't comment on probability ever. The bias is just too strong. But then i remember the dunning-kruger effect.

Ok enough rambling (sorry that FPS comparison broke me). Your friend has to make the choice, either he really wants to learn to play, or he doesn't. Dice are there, you can't change that fact, what you can do is mitigate it. Either list synergy, action usage or just put him on a Fat Solo. Seriously, that's like the list that cares the least about luck.

On a related note, people who play just 1-2 times with one list shouldn't complain about dice, ever. You can complain about dice when you had played 20 times a list, and you probably won't blame the dice but a few mistakes you did, because you actually have the knowledge now of what you should be doing.

The telling thing for me is that he's played enough games to be getting fed up ... but not committed enough to buy even a few of his own ships.

You can do a rebel list in the Uk for under £50 if you get a core set and about £33 if you just need three ships.

everyone i've given a game of xwing to has bought into it, got core sets, their own squadrons etc quite quickly

Not having any 'buy in' and using your stuff might be counter productive.. no 'buy in' , no incentive to stick at it if you hit a wall... if he'd have spent £30-£50 of his own money he'd probably be looking at a way to play harder, get a better list, stack up the odds and remove chance etc

Yeah I understand that but to expand, he was really into it. He would come over with 4-5 lists made to pick from and was really good he's prob beat me more than I beat him! Also I let him use whatever he wants he chose the YTs, which yeah that is terrible for dice rolling...I guess I do need to put up signs or something, to get more people. I live 45 mins from the closest LGS and they play on the night I have school:(

Thanks tho for quick replies!

I will say that X-wing is one of those games that can pull in non-gamers. So, there is usually good chances for recruitment.

Explain to him that the game is about mitigating the risk involved in rolling dice. Whether it's through synergy of abilities and upgrades or sheer number of dice being rolled. Also positioning matters a great deal in terms of thinking 2 moves ahead and passing targets off from one of your ships to others.

On a side note about his complaint about FPS's, bullet spread is indeed something that happens in reality and is modeled in games. Just because your sights line up on a target doesn't mean that your shot will go right to that point.

#1 - strategy games should never be compared to FPS

#2 - how old is your friend and what types of games has he played in the past?

some people just want to run around killing things, that's why some games die. kids have this need for instant gratification and if they are not seeing explosions they are not happy.

I have played with several different D&D groups. some love the RPG aspect of it, while others just want to run through dungeons with the biggest baddest MF they can possibly create, which in my mind defeats the purpose of an RPG.

I don't know if any of you remember a game call Chrome Hounds for the XBOX 360? It was a beautiful game. it functioned on many levels:

simulation: piloting a giant robot (what's not cool about that)

construction physics: when building your hound you had to compensate for weapon recoil as well as protecting your core.

strategy: tactics in this game, IMO, rivaled most RTS games I had played.

few to no smart ass kids: the game played at a pace and level that little kids didn't play it much, it took a lot of planning, building, squad tactics, and trying to out think and out gun your opponents.

my point being, most young people now a-days would rather buy a video game because its easier and grants instant gratification. in short, they would rather play in someone else's imagination then use their own.

don't get me wrong, there is definitely a place for most video games, but depending on them for your only source of entertainment, IMO, is lazy

Your description of that game sounds like the whole console gaming industry to me, and most of the PC gaming industry too.

But of course, i used to have to read 100-300 page manuals before playing the games, and even if you don't believe it, that was part of the charm.

I still think he'd be less likely to quit if he had his own squadron.

I also query how 'really into it' he was if he had no urge to get his own models?

I stop trying to get my friend as regular players. They played a few times, liked it, but won't continue on. They often think $15 for one miniature is over priced. I rebutted with, you spend $4.00 for a pack of Pokemon and then continually buy the packs until you get 4 copies of a card you need. I'm just over here buying two X-Wings and I am done. When I ask if they want to play the would rather play the mentioned Pokemon or Star Wars Miniatures. Both get a meh from me. So in conclusion it might be time to stop beating that dead horse and find other people, or maybe he will come around in time. And know you know!.......And knowing is half the battle! GEEEE EYEEEEEE JOEEEEEEE!!!!

I seriously think you should help him build lists that involve sharing Target Locks and Focus. That will help him enjoy the game.

Also try playing some scenarios rather than just tired old 100 point deathmatchs.

He might be one of our rare breed of narrative players who need a 'story' to be engaged in the battle.

Yeah all good replies, I have tried to point out how minimizing the dices effect is a huge thing in this game, and flying is the most obvious skill needed to line shots up and get the best results, we'll see what happens...also this is both of our first tabletop game period. I think making him buy his own ships (though this would obviously help him get more excited about it) would just make him quit completely...I need more players locally!!!! Also he is almost 25, and yeah the FPS comparison killed me too:/ so much could be said about chance in shooting situations!

I will point him a direction to build up TLs and focus I showed him last game how much that worked with Soontir Fel, don't fill bad for him though he had a fat Han w gunner and ML, AND c3po (I know that sounds crazy him complaining about odds) I just outflew him this time and proved how nice the TL/ focus combo was.

Did one mission, he does in fact just like shooting things...

To be honest if he doesnt want to bother buying his own ships hes got no incentive not to quit and from everything you've said i read between the lines:

"I'm doing this to keep my mate happy as he keeps banging on about xwing all the time"

Because i've seen people go along with a game before so as not to hurt a friend.

You do need to find more players, even if he doesnt quit because you're going to get bored of playing each other eventually anyway.

When the Battlestar Galactica game game out (the PC multiplayer one) two of my good mates were really into it and kept bugging me to have a go at it. I was pretty disinterested in it to start with , then i thought i'd give it a go but they were going on about it so much it eventually put me off entirely.

Put an advert on here in the organised play section asking for opponents in your area... you never know there could be someone in your area in the same boat.

Find other friends who will play.

And, in his defense, the point about dice is a fair one. Sometimes the Force just isn't with you and that's no fun. Sure, a skilled player can mitigate dice luck and dice do average out over many games, but sometimes you play perfectly and outmaneuvre your opponent and the game doesn't reward you. That's a bum deal and a fair critique.

FPS, while a bad comparison, doesn't really have that sort of reaction. It pretty much always rewards skilled play and that's a fair thing for a person to prefer. Instead of trying to persuade him, take a break from X-Wing and play some if his games. He'll come back around.

I play a lot of airsoft.. ive seen playing fire a burst at each other at point blank range and both miss 'pulp fiction' style... seems incredible but sometimes those 'dead cert' shots dont always play out.

Yeah I'm starting to realize that my only real option is to find more players... Sad but true! When I get off I'm gonna blitz the internet with ads asking for local players! Thanks guys!

That's funny you say that Gadge, airsoft was our last big adventure! Played it for years, and I can completely relate with your situation of shooting close and still missing lol

Good luck.

Its a popular game so i dont think you'll have too much trouble.

May be worth starting your own gaming club and putting adverts out, if you live in any moderately sized town you'll probably find some like minded people. The thing with gamers is they tend to be quite introvert by nature so you have to go find them.

do you have a local GW, might be worth getting to know people there and 'converting' them