I have a question for the X-Wing Forum world ...

How many of you concede in matches, in either tournaments or casual flying?

I want to be up front here. I don't like giving up. Ever.

I am willing to take a beating, and keep getting up off of the mat, until my opponent can force me to stay down - i.e. take out all of my ships.

I don't care that I am the underdog. I don't care that I have 20 pts of one ship left and you have 80 pts of 6 ships left. I am going to fight until my last breath - all the while being a good sport and having fun.

I was brought up by my parents to never give up ... to give it my all to the bitter end ...

Okay, so now that I have gotten that out of my system, I do want to be serious here. In the last two tournaments within which I competed, I and another player (who apparently had a similar attitude to mine) were accused of bad sportsmanship because we refused to concede in situations that appeared to be dire/unwinnable.

Now, I have been in tight spaces before, in all parts of life, and have been able to overcome; for that reason, no matter how bad the odds, I like to keep playing.

The clock has not run out, the tournament is still going, I still have ships on the board, let's play ! If you think the situation is so hopeless for me, then prove it, out fly/out play me, and kill my last ship.

Why is it bad sportsmanship when I want to continue playing? I am not breaking any rules, and although the odds are long, I have come back and won in some improbable situations, even in X-Wing.

Have any of you experienced this? Do you always concede in these situations? My opponent got so torque off, he called the TO and complained that I wouldn't concede. I couldn't believe it.

I would say your opponent was a bad sport and trying to force a win. There's no rule where it says you "have to concede because 'X'". If you have time left in the round and models on the board, well as the saying goes "It ain't over till the fat lady sings". I've run many a tournament and have seen some amazing comebacks from what was a losing proposition.

I do know some players that will concede, basing their decision on odds or gut feelings. <shrugs> That's their choice. I'll play to the end with, as you say, good sportsmanship and having fun. I'd rather play against someone who tries fiercely to the bitter end than someone who gives up 3/4 of the way into a game.

I'm pretty new to playing, and I did concede one of my early games (3 Academey TIE, 2 Black Squadron, Howlrunner) Vs 2 naked defenders when I had the lone Academy TIE with one hull point left against both defenders minus their shields.

A couple of games later and I took same list + Saber Squadron + Tetran cowell up against Biggs + headhunter + Han & Chewie in Falcon. By the time I'd got rid of Biggs + Headhunter I was down to Howlie (undamaged) + damaged Saber... I was tempted to concede but we were both having fun so continued. Falcon won with a single hull point left. (if I'd zagged rather than zigged around the final asteroid, he would have been in arc and I would have shot first and may have won).

I wont be conceding any more games.

I will concede if the situation is bad enough. Just tonight I had a game come down to 2 shield-less Z-95s up against 2 Royal Guard PTL squints. I just didn't see the point wasting time when it was clear only an act of true divine intervention would save me.

In a tournament, however, other factors come into play, and the clock is one of them. If I think I might keep one or both Z-95s alive long enough for the clock to run out and protect my MoV, then why not?

In the end, it's an individual choice. If you wish to concede, go ahead. If you want to play it out, go ahead. Neither choice is wrong. Your opponent needed a good ol' dope slap.

In tournaments you should never concede. The margin of victory is determined by the relative amount of points you and your opponent destroy. By you conceding they get maximum Margin of Victory (which helps them) and you would get 0 (which is bad). This could be important if you win all your other games and want to progress past the cut-off stage. It is also more fair on other tournament players who should have everyone fighting as hard as possible - why should they lose out on a cut-off place because your opponent gets max MoV when you conceded?

So casual games - go ahead and concede if you just want to start another game or want to get moving on to something else.

In tournaments you always play to the time!

I know you're talking competetively but i'll just add that for me the *only* good reason for conceding is when you're playing with friends and conceding means you will have time to get another, and hopefully more rewarding, game in that evening

I'd concede if say i hypothetically had one ship left with no ability to shoot and the game would otherwise be me whizzing round the table evading while my opponent tries to catch me.

In an organised play game you should always fight to the end as long as its fun and not just stalling for time. Again, friendly rather than tounry, but last month I was down to wedge with one hitpoint and my wife had three ties in varying states of damage, one being howlrunner.... i said 'its over sian, i'll concede' and she said, 'no play on and see how it goes'... i managed to get a win by sheer luck with the dice and the fact she manouvred howlrunner over an asteroid that caused damage enough to blow her up!

The only really good reason to concede at an organised event is to protest against a poor player.

As i've said before a game is only a game if *both* of you are having fun.

At a 40k GT i was overseeing once my friend played a chap who micromanaged and scrutinised all of my friends moves but was very lax with his own, his list was an unthematic min maxed eldar list (three wraithlors, seer council, wave serpent and one or two other 'fillers' or similar) and in general the guy was a pain in the ass to play against... hurrying my mate in his tun while taking as long as possible in his.

My friend conceded the game in the third turn, not because he didnt think he could win but because he couldnt stand playing this guy and would rather lose a game than spend anymore time around him. he said 'you win, call it a massacre', they guy then got defensive and my friend said 'look its not fun playing like this and i came here to have fun and play 40k'.

The guy got a total win marked down (but no points for sportsmanship) and my friend knew he'd given up anychance of winning the events but just couldnt bring himself to play against someone like that.

sportsmanship was always a tricky issue when i was in GW events, a lot of people wanted to see it removed as in a way you could purposely sabotage someone over sportsmanship just to be spiteful if you lost and felt you shouldnt have.

I have witnessed players concede at local store tournaments in order for their friend to win the tournament outright.

Anyone who concedes at a tournament should be stripped of all points and kicked out of the tournament.

Yeah that is a bit lame.

Perhaps you should have to call a ref over if you want to concede and show them the situation?

If a ref thinks you have a valid 'no chance' claim you can concede.

But you could always still play really badly, if someone wants to throw the game its hard to stop them.

I know you're talking competetively but i'll just add that for me the *only* good reason for conceding is when you're playing with friends and conceding means you will have time to get another, and hopefully more rewarding, game in that evening

It's funny that you mention this option - it happened the other night. My buddy and I were discussing co-conceding a casual game so that we could simply start another one (we had brainstormed some ideas for a fun match while playing) ...

The problem is, he is alot like me ... always has fun, but hates losing/conceding ... we both looked at each other and said screw it - we're playing to the bloody end ...

We ended up laughing for much of the match. It's good to have friends !

I have witnessed players concede at local store tournaments in order for their friend to win the tournament outright.

Anyone who concedes at a tournament should be stripped of all points and kicked out of the tournament.

The idea that someone would want to win a tournament by having their opponent/friend concede, is so wrong I don't even know where to begin.

Because of this specific point, I really don't like the whole idea of even allowing concessions in a competitive/tournament environment. It would be nice if there was a way a TO could quantitatively rule whether or not a concession was allowed.

I'm a very competitive guy, but also a pragmatist.

If I'm playing my brothers and it's going terribly I'll grudgingly concede so we can get more in the time we've got together.

In a tournament? No chance! I play hard but fair, and if I've got one guy left he will have to start flying his backside off. If that means avoidance or pure luck so be it. It's up to my opponent to finish the job in the time we've got left.

As has been pointed out, the MoV's count and I won't just abandon all hope.

Given the majority of people here state that they would never concede in a tournament, I actually wonder what make others do so. I have seen this frequently, and as has been pointed out multiple times, the whole MoV issue would seem to indicate that you shouldn't.

Makes me wonder if those who do concede in a tournament, are relatively new to the scene, or perhaps in their first tournament, etc., and either don't know better, or have decided that the list they came with simply isn't going to do it.

Still, since you are already there, why not just continue, have fun, and chalk it up to a learning experience?

I just can't wrap my head around the mentality that allows someone to concede ...

what if its not fun though?

what if your opponent is just a terrible person to play against, or if you realise you've brought a knife to a gun fight and that you're going to be spending an hour removing a ship off the table each turn and not getting a shot in, sure thats your error in picking a sub optimal list but... you can't force someone to spend an hour in what they consider 'unpleasant' or 'dull' gaming.

If they feel they would rather spectate other games, grab a snack, look around the store rather than spent another minute in a game they dont enjoy , well you cant make them play.

If you put a 'no conceding' rule in then whats to stop someone flying all their ships of the table 'oops i chose the wrong manouvre' or deliberatley double stressing 'silly me , chose a red manouvre and i'm already stressed' in order to throw the game?

See that i mean, you can 'ban' it technically but its hard to stop some one essentially comitting 'game suicide'

My experience is that even when it looks the worst, you always have a chance. At my last store tournament, I nearly finished off a phantom with a z-95. Talk about having to fly my best! Sure, I lost in the end, but I learned a lot of flying skills. You have to learn when you're trying to outfly Echo with a ps2 Z-95. One of my best games to date. If I had conceded, I would never had learned how to best fly a z-95.

In tournaments you should never concede. The margin of victory is determined by the relative amount of points you and your opponent destroy. By you conceding they get maximum Margin of Victory (which helps them) and you would get 0 (which is bad). This could be important if you win all your other games and want to progress past the cut-off stage. It is also more fair on other tournament players who should have everyone fighting as hard as possible - why should they lose out on a cut-off place because your opponent gets max MoV when you conceded?

So casual games - go ahead and concede if you just want to start another game or want to get moving on to something else.

In tournaments you always play to the time!

In any tournament where your margin of victory might determine your progression, insisting that an opponent concedes is a distinctly shady thing to do

Have any of you experienced this? Do you always concede in these situations? My opponent got so torque off, he called the TO and complained that I wouldn't concede. I couldn't believe it.

Out of interest, what did the TO have to say about this?

what if its not fun though?

what if your opponent is just a terrible person to play against, or if you realise you've brought a knife to a gun fight and that you're going to be spending an hour removing a ship off the table each turn and not getting a shot in, sure thats your error in picking a sub optimal list but... you can't force someone to spend an hour in what they consider 'unpleasant' or 'dull' gaming.

If they feel they would rather spectate other games, grab a snack, look around the store rather than spent another minute in a game they dont enjoy , well you cant make them play.

If you put a 'no conceding' rule in then whats to stop someone flying all their ships of the table 'oops i chose the wrong manouvre' or deliberatley double stressing 'silly me , chose a red manouvre and i'm already stressed' in order to throw the game?

See that i mean, you can 'ban' it technically but its hard to stop some one essentially comitting 'game suicide'

You make some good points, and as a result I am some what torn with this situation. I guess I have been fortunate in that I have not had to play against anyone so effing obnoxious that I simply don't want to play any more.

As for what to do if I feel like I am simply outmatched, I still forge on, as I feel it is a possible learning experience. Even if I feel (or know) that I am about to be smoked, I can take the opportunity to try new things (in terms of flying, etc.). Things I had never tried before, just to see what would happen - how it may affect certain situations, etc.

You are correct ... I don't think you could put a hard and fast rule in about no conceding, as someone could simply choose to fly their ships off the map. Still, I have seen concessions in situations that aren't even remotely dire ... and it is especially frustrating if that directly impacts how I finish, even if I am not the one competing.

There can be comebacks (I had Rexlar come back and take out a Phantom and 2 Firesprays (though, both were damaged by Vader and 2 TIEs). I can understand if the situation is pretty dire and you don't want to endure it anymore. But, it is on the losing players discretion. The winning play should not force a concession.

Though I will say, about the only situation I would probably accept such a concession is a HWK with Blaster Turret vs Dark Curse.

I have a question for the X-Wing Forum world ...

How many of you concede in matches, in either tournaments or casual flying?

I want to be up front here. I don't like giving up. Ever.

I am willing to take a beating, and keep getting up off of the mat, until my opponent can force me to stay down - i.e. take out all of my ships.

I don't care that I am the underdog. I don't care that I have 20 pts of one ship left and you have 80 pts of 6 ships left. I am going to fight until my last breath - all the while being a good sport and having fun.

I was brought up by my parents to never give up ... to give it my all to the bitter end ...

Okay, so now that I have gotten that out of my system, I do want to be serious here. In the last two tournaments within which I competed, I and another player (who apparently had a similar attitude to mine) were accused of bad sportsmanship because we refused to concede in situations that appeared to be dire/unwinnable.

Now, I have been in tight spaces before, in all parts of life, and have been able to overcome; for that reason, no matter how bad the odds, I like to keep playing.

The clock has not run out, the tournament is still going, I still have ships on the board, let's play ! If you think the situation is so hopeless for me, then prove it, out fly/out play me, and kill my last ship.

Why is it bad sportsmanship when I want to continue playing? I am not breaking any rules, and although the odds are long, I have come back and won in some improbable situations, even in X-Wing.

Have any of you experienced this? Do you always concede in these situations? My opponent got so torque off, he called the TO and complained that I wouldn't concede. I couldn't believe it.

I'm sure part of it is the Pro-Poker player in you. That said, of course you don't have to concede - I concede very occasionally because I've come to learn I get get very pissy when I am losing badly (especially because of my own stupid mistake), and I don't want my opponent to have to deal with that, so I just give them the victory.

But what you are describing is not you doing anything wrong, although when playing with an absolute beginner I personally would not be seeking to drag out their first game using every trick in the book.

I generally don't like conceding or other people conceding to me. Saturday I was playing a friend - he had 3 Interceptors and 2 Ties, I had Wedge, Horton, and Ibtisam. I got one shot off with Wedge before 2 Tie shots completely wiped him out. Two rounds later, Horton also died. I was left with Ibtisam (with Predator) with full health and shields vs. two damaged Ties and four other ships, none of them touched.

I proceeded to use Ibtisam's stress rerolls to evade most attacks and vape 4 of his ships, including two of his Interceptors. I did screw up and fly off the board at the end, but the game was the most satisfying I've played in a long time, despite the fact that I started out with a crushing defeat.

Have any of you experienced this? Do you always concede in these situations? My opponent got so torque off, he called the TO and complained that I wouldn't concede. I couldn't believe it.

Out of interest, what did the TO have to say about this?

He laughed, as he thought the player was kidding. When it became apparent that my opponent was serious, the TO informed him that so long as I desired to keep playing, and as long as there was time remaining, my opponent was obligated to continue the match.

The TO did inform him that if he didn't want to play anymore, he could concede.

I generally don't like conceding or other people conceding to me. Saturday I was playing a friend - he had 3 Interceptors and 2 Ties, I had Wedge, Horton, and Ibtisam. I got one shot off with Wedge before 2 Tie shots completely wiped him out. Two rounds later, Horton also died. I was left with Ibtisam (with Predator) with full health and shields vs. two damaged Ties and four other ships, none of them touched.

I proceeded to use Ibtisam's stress rerolls to evade most attacks and vape 4 of his ships, including two of his Interceptors. I did screw up and fly off the board at the end, but the game was the most satisfying I've played in a long time, despite the fact that I started out with a crushing defeat.

Nice ... well done indeed. And a good example of why I won't concede.

I'll concede in a friendly game if it means we get more matches in. In a tournament, I would never concede.

Have any of you experienced this? Do you always concede in these situations? My opponent got so torque off, he called the TO and complained that I wouldn't concede. I couldn't believe it.

Out of interest, what did the TO have to say about this?

He laughed, as he thought the player was kidding. When it became apparent that my opponent was serious, the TO informed him that so long as I desired to keep playing, and as long as their was time remaining, my opponent was obligated to continue the match.

The TO did inform him that if he didn't want to play anymore, he could concede.

So what happened? Did he eventually wipe you out? Or did you survive until the end?

I'm sure part of it is the Pro-Poker player in you. That said, of course you don't have to concede - I concede very occasionally because I've come to learn I get get very pissy when I am losing badly (especially because of my own stupid mistake), and I don't want my opponent to have to deal with that, so I just give them the victory.

But what you are describing is not you doing anything wrong, although when playing with an absolute beginner I personally would not be seeking to drag out their first game using every trick in the book.

This is very true. As someone who makes a living playing poker, I don't like conceding any hand/pot, as when you do so, you can't win. Having said that, I spend alot of time conceding when playing poker, because if I did not do so, I would lose way too much money. In Poker, it is fairly easy to calculate odds, positive and negative EV situations, etc.

I think such a thing is far tougher in X-Wing, especially with the element of randomness due to dice rolls, human error in movement, forgetting to take actions, forgetting to utilize abilities, etc.

Having said that, I agree with your own self-analysis ... if you know you tend to lose the spirit of the game and have less fun when losing, and such a change in attitude could directly impact your opponent's enjoyment of the game, then kudos to you for conceding - in that case, you are doing what I would call the honorable thing.

I am much like you in that the only time I get upset when playing any game (for money or for pure enjoyment) is when I make mistakes ... mistakes which shouldn't happen (errors of judgement when I know better, etc.).