Do you gain Conflict for destroying a Droid via a force power? If so, then nearly all of the poor jedi in the movies 1 - 3 got much conflict ;-)

That's a pretty interesting question you posed. It's difficult to imagine FFG taking an official stance on this. As a GM, I would stick with the standard the prequels set. Droids aren't humans. It's why we seem them slaughtered by the dozens in both the PT and TCW (despite their dim-witted but still sentient personalities).

I would be very interested in seeing this addressed by FFG.

I'd say no. The vast majority of the SW galaxy views droids as just machines.

I would say it depends entirely on the droid. If it's a "stupid" battle droid with no real intelligence and no purpose other than combat, then I'd say no conflict. If you're destroying a helpless protocol droid who has advanced artificial intelligence, I'd give conflict.

I'd say it's situational.

Destroying the battle droid that is attacking/killing people wouldn't be conflict worthy. Eliminating the protocol droid so the party's droid can "fill in" as a means to gain access to information... maybe a little conflict. Vaporizing the labor droid because you simply don't like it... a bit more conflict. Dispatching the power droids that supply energy to a small community because you're trying to drive those sniveling meat bags off their land so you can take it over... definitely handing out some conflict there.

Fleshists! I knew I could smell the stink of your bias and Droid hatred! Rise up my Droid brethren and cast off the yoke of the OPPRESSORS!

/ 1NB4-LCK agitator series Droid.

Adding to what Bren said, if the droid is knowingly some one else's property, that could also generate conflict, as you are knowingly destroying someone else's things.

Battle droids probably aren't worth caring about, but police droids (like the ones in far horizons) just trying to do their jobs... that I could see some conflict for.

Adding to what Bren said, if the droid is knowingly some one else's property, that could also generate conflict, as you are knowingly destroying someone else's things.

Battle droids probably aren't worth caring about, but police droids (like the ones in far horizons) just trying to do their jobs... that I could see some conflict for.

The police droids would also have a much more sophisticated artificial intelligence than the battle droids. Or at least I would certainly hope so.

what is the difference between killing and murder?

Depends on the situation.

IN the heat of battle as a form of self-defense, certainly not.

I'd say no. The vast majority of the SW galaxy views droids as just machines.

Well now, that opens a rather large can of dianoga. I recall a rather vigorous debate between you and I on the subject of droid self-awareness. I was in the red lightsabre corner and you were in the blue with my arguing that droids were not sentient / self-aware. Essentially the Obi-Wan position of "if droids could think, none of us would be here". Whilst you were championing the cause of droid rights.

The reason to bring that up is not to re-open the debate, which may be irresolvable. But rather that it has a bearing on whether Jedi get Conflict or not. If droids truly are non-sentient machines then no, no conflict. But if they are, then you're taking the position that Light Side / Dark Side has more to do with whether a Jedi views their actions as bad, than whether they are bad.

A Jedi that thinks droids are "people", even if they're not, would get conflict. One such as Obi Wan would not, even if they were. And if that blue guy in the TCW episode who viewed the snow-creatures on their moon as just being animals, not thinking beings, had been a Jedi, he'd have been able to kill them with no conflict at all.

A slippery Hoth slope indeed, if Light Side / Dark Side depend on "a certain point of view". I'm not saying this ISN'T how the Light Side / Dark Side works. But if it is, we need to be careful.

Anakin: "I killed them. I killed them all. They're dead, every single one of them. And not just the men, but the women and the children, too. They're like animals, and I slaughtered them like animals"

GM: "That's okay then. So long as you consider them animals, no conflict, you stay Light Side."

Palpatine: "Nooooooooooooo"

Fleshists! I knew I could smell the stink of your bias and Droid hatred! Rise up my Droid brethren and cast off the yoke of the OPPRESSORS!

/ 1NB4-LCK agitator series Droid.

*Holds in reset button with a paper clip for five seconds, initiates memory wipe*

"What? That's what you do!"

Jedi sometimes are too despotic against droids so... no, they don't get them XD (I'm pro jedi)

This is a dangerous reflexion, but its a perception thing. If for you are just smashing a stone, probably you won't get conflict (maybe yes if you do it unleashing rage), but if you know that the stone was an intelligent alien disguissed, you will probably gain a lot of Conflict.

Jedi (in general and society too) consider droids as tools, no more no less. Anakin was an exception and was capable to see that some droids were the same as a person and call them "friends". The fact that after he become a serial massive killer doesn't mean that he was wrong XD A really evil guy in our history was vegetarian and that doesn't make vegetarian bad people

There is also the fact that droids are not part of the force and so probably fall more into the property aspect than people as far as the force in concerned.

*Holds in reset button with a paper clip for five seconds, initiates memory wipe*

"What? That's what you do!"

Dang it! I knew designed the Agitator series with an easily accessed reset button was a flaw, but no the Uggnauts claimed it was a good idea, keep them from turning on me when my Dark Minions showed up and I took over... err...

/waves hand

Disregard that last bit there.

There is also the fact that droids are not part of the force and so probably fall more into the property aspect than people as far as the force in concerned.

This is why I'm nto a "fan" of the Morality mechanic. The Force doesn't "care" about property rights or the destruction of inanimate objects. It is concerned with the emotions generated by living creatures. Thus while the slavery of living beings is a bit troublesome* to the Jedi, slavery and destruction of Droids is a non-issue.**

* "A bit" troublesome in that if they could end slavery of other living beings they probably would, but since that might require herculean efforts and cut into meditation*** time they don't...

** And we really shouldn't get into whether or not Droids can feel pain...

Trigger Warning: Droids being Torture in RotJ

*** Understanding of course I'm being sarcastic there for comedy sake, I know "Jedi Order Frees All Slaves and Stops Intergalactic Slavery" was not the story Lucas was trying to tell.

I'll have to join the "it's situational" crowd. If you're smashing a mindless load lifting droid, that really only knows how to go to point A, pick up Pallet B, and deliver it to ship C then no conflict. If it's a sophisticated and sentient droid, then I'd treat it like taking a life.

It can get a little sticky sometimes as you can't always tell just by looking at a droid. Some common sense needs to come into play. I would probably err on the side of conflict, so you can't have Jedi blast some droid before it can do anything, so they can say "I didn't know it was sentient."

I'll have to join the "it's situational" crowd. If you're smashing a mindless load lifting droid, that really only knows how to go to point A, pick up Pallet B, and deliver it to ship C then no conflict.

Even Binary Load Lifters can have a bad day.

I'd absolutely do this on a case by case basis. If you were to destroy a droid like C-3P0, someone with a lot of personality that is arguably fully sentient, then yes, I'd give conflict, although maybe the bare minimum. However, if you destroy a droid that has little to no sentience, or like the battle droids from the Clone Wars, get most of their programming from a distant computer that beams commands over, then destroying the body has no impact on the "brain," so I'd say no. And in some cases, the droid might just be violently disabled, not destroyed. They might be easily repaired. I might not consider that "murder" so much as maiming.

So I think I'd be very case by case on this. Also, if its just wanton destruction akin to letting off steam punching a pillow? Oh yeah. There'd be conflict for that sort of behavior.

[Yoda voice]Full of life, that pillow was! Much conflict you get![/Yoda voice]

Using antibiotics = conflict then.

Yep! Each time you do your laundry, you commit mass murder! That's why Jedi never do laundry.

Or washing their hands, body or cleaning the Jedi temple.

On a more serious note though: I'd give conflict if the droids have a personality, or it's wanton destruction of property or they are torturing the poor droids. It's based on the situation, like everything else.

I'd say it's about personal ethics - it seems that whatever code of ethics the Jedi have does not cover doing harm to droids specifically - it is very clear in the Clone Wars series that Obi-Wan doesn't think of droids as much more that tools, while Anakin thinks of R2-D2, at least, as a real friend. I would rule that as PCs, Obi-Wan would not gain conflict from destroying a droid, while Anakin might - it's all about their personal beliefs. A Jedi should stay true to his or her personal conviction as well as that of the Order, after all, even if that isn't specified in the Order's teachings. There might be some aspects of said teachings I'm not aware of, though.

"To a dark place, this line of thought will take us."

I enjoy the debates on droid rights and specifically if a Force user should receive conflict for destroying droids, but it seems to always devolve into extremes.

I'd say it depends on the situation. For example, The party is sneaking through the town when they come across a open space they have to cross unseen. Standing guard in the center of the square is 2 droids armed with blasters. The FU in the group pulls his saber, leaps behind the droids and cuts them into recycling. I'd award conflict simply because he didn't try Anything else first.

Page 220; Force and Destiny Beta

6-7 Conflict Received - Unnecessary Cruelty to non-sapient creatures: The PC maliciously tortures or torments animals or droids with animal intelligence.

This tells me that the fact that it's a droid doesn't matter to the Force. How many times have you become absolutely frustrated with an inanimate object and vented your frustrations smacking it, punching it, or even taking a bat to it. Or a shotgun (...what? It was at a range. And that TV had it coming)

Now, this particular entry carries a little more weight, because it's the player's intention to be cruel. You're just being mean, and torturing the poor creature (prying one wheel off and letting it run in circles, kicking over a droid and laughing as it struggles to get up).

Lets dial it down and treat droids the way the galaxy at large treats them; as simple property you barely give two throughts about.

1 Conflic Earned - Resorting to violence as the First Solution: When confronted with a problem, the PC defaults to violent acts to solve it, without exploting any other options. This penatly can be mitigated if the PC is the one being attacked.

3-4 Conflict Earned - Unnecessary Destruction : The PC destroys objects, property, or other items willfuly and without good cause.

If you just bash a droid simply because , you're going to earn conflict. If you need to sneak by a droid and your first action is to blast it, you're going to earn conflict. The fact that it's a droid or a person matters little to the Force; it's a thing and you're commiting a violent act against it instead of even trying to find another way first.

Now, yes, if that droid is actively trying to blast you, you're defending yourself. Just like when a human is trying to blast you. If that droid is gunning down civilians, get in there and start swinging that saber. But if that unsuspecting Imperial M-3PO is a little too close to that alarm button for your liking and you saber it because it's expedient to do so to prevent it from raising an alarm, expect 1 Conflict for doing so in my games.

This is Beta-RAW, and this is why we test and debate it. Personally, I think it's fine as is, because I believe that completely avoiding the acquisition of Conflict should be a very hard and rare thing. You can get conflict and not fall to the Dark Side, just don't get to much of it and you'll be fine.