FFG didn't want the Z-95 to be a swarm craft, they specifically state that this is not what it was intended for and designed it intending it to not be a swarmer: it's a filler craft and missile platform.

To be fair, how they intend for something to work, and how it is actually the most effective, are not always the same thing. Obviously the Z-95 is a great filler ship. Missiles are almost a complete non-factor, although this is slowly changing.

This thread is inspiring me to figure out how to best fly an 8Z swarm now!

I think this could be an interesting all Z-list. Not quite a swarm though.

I'm not a tournament player but I don't think the Z-Swarm has what it takes to out pace the TIE swarm; at least not in most cases, the above linked video notwithstanding. What it gains in maneuverability [1 forward] it loses in mobility with no barrel roll action and while Target Locks might be handy sometimes it just doesn't match the utility of Howlrunner giving you 7 rerolled dice a turn. Defensively the Z's lose one green dice which I think is more valuable for cheap swarmy ships than an extra hit point. With TIES you are flying effectively a bunch of 3 attack dice (2+ howl's reroll if needed) and 3 defense with focuses vs. the Z's 2 attack 2 defend with focuses, damage output and avoidance potentials are not equal between the two. PS is a clear advantage over another swarm but it's not changing much against higher PS pilot builds.

One of my friends and I are trying a progressive Escalation build these next few days, playing a round each day. Last night he flew 3 Bandits and Lt. Blount with Shield Upgrade and an Ion Missile. I flew 3 Avenger Squadron Squints. He had nearly double the hit points to soak up but with my 3 I still had him on attack and evade dice. He kept a tight formation but I went wild with my squints, he had no idea where to point his guns. The best shot he got was with Blount and the Ion Pulse, an automatic hit, on my middle ship which landed it on an asteroid the next round, no damage but it lost a point blank shooting opportunity. Meanwhile he got flanked and lit up. He only did a total of 5 damage to me and I overkilled on his.

I'll see if he learns how to fly them better as these matches go on.

I dont think a pure Z list would fare that well against a tie swarm even without howlrunner. but i agree it really has not been tested enough. I think the ability to break up and truly swarm with the ties from all directions might even offset the loss of howlrunner, but take that as unproven also. There are so many ships on the rebel side to provide great synergy, I think a mini-swarm with some other rebel ships, dutch, garven, lando, etc. would be a lot more effective than running a pure z list. On the other hand, 8 straight academy ties are still a strong list, especially if flown asymmetrically. This seems to be how most people use the Z, as a filler or mini swarm, and that tends to be how I use it as well.

Tried both, and I really dislike the Z swarm.

It's maneuver dial is just hard to use in a furball with just a 3 K-turn and no 1 turn.

You're just much more predictable and have no movement action to use a PS advantage.

I much prefer to run Headhunters in a mini swarm rather than a full swarm. 2-3 z95s with the possibility of an assault missile or two is pretty much perfect for them.

I don't see why Howlrunner is such a big factor. Blount with an assault missile makes Howlrunner suicide, the re-roll is not worth having all of your ships start at 2 HP. If the TIE swarm blobs up around Howlrunner they lose. If they spread out to avoid the auto-loss from Blount's assault missile they have a chance, but the z-95 player can concentrate their forces without restrictions and the TIE player threw away the 6+ points they spent on Howlrunner.

I actually have a friend that likes playing the z swarm. Now he doesn't have the ties for a tie swarm so he has not compared the two. Our group always plays rebel vs imperial and I do have to say the first time I went against the z swarm I got smeared. I was not used to dealing with a swarm as an imperial player, and my list was weak against a swarm.

If I recall correctly the article that originally introduced the Z-95 said something about them not being designed as a swarm style ship. While I haven't run a Z swarm yet I just don't really think they have the potency of the TIE swarm. That isn't what they're great for, but I still love them. :3

I think this list would be pretty effective:

Bandit Squad with Assault Missiles x 3 (17 points each)

Tala Squad x 2 (13 points each)

Blount with Assault Missiles and Munitions Failsafe

It is an all Z-95 squad that can deliver 4 Assault Missile shots that should get you at least 3 splash damage that should wreck TIE and other swarms. Heck, it is against a Fat Han with escort, just target Han with all the missile shots to do damage to him and his escort. He won't be able to evade well or for long even with 3PO and Evade action.

-Blount cannot use Munitions Failsafe (he always hits). That saves you a point.

-More than 1 or 2 Assault Missiles is not going to do you any good, the threat will keep the other squad spread out fairly well. Downgrade 2 to Concussions or Clusters for more individual target damage and to save another 2 points.

-You want ordnance on the highest possible PS, so you can try and Target Lock after your target has moved to fire the missiles at maximum range. Shift missiles onto Talas where possible.

When it comes to a "swarm" of Z-95s I believe you are really looking for an alpha strike squadron of some kind which also cuts down on the number of ships when ordnance is considered. My thought is something like:

Cracken + Squad Leader

Blount + Swarm Tactics + Assault Missile

Tala + Assault Missile (x3)

Of course you can alter the missile load a bit but the thought is that you can let the Tala move and Focus if there are no TLs available. Ideally there is a target available when Blount goes so he can TL at that time in order to fire his inescapable missile off. Cracken may get to move last and doesn't have any ordnance on him (some like giving him a Cluster Missile but I want this to go off at R3) but he can give one Tala his action via Squad Leader and when he shoots he can give another an action so two of those focusing Tala can now get shots off. When PS 6 comes around you get the shoot with Blount and one of the other fighters. The last ships go at PS 4 and while you may have one left with a missile after that round you've ideally fired of 3 Assault Missiles where one is guaranteed to hit and the other two were backed up by Focus tokens.

I admit the ordnance loads could be traded out, a Tala could drop to a Bandit, and something else could be done with the Elite Pilot slots but this would grant an alpha strike that should be pretty dangerous to any group of ships.

Here is the thing about Z-swarms, First Headhunters have a different movement dial than Tie Fighters. Which makes them harder to move. Second they have a missile upgrade slot which will up the price on Headhunters. So allot of Headhunter swarms are often anti-Tie Swarms swarm. However assault missiles are 5 points a piece making the humble 12 point Headhunter to a whopping 17 points a model. So the 7-8 ship swarm goes down to only 5 Z-95 models. Still a large squadron in terms of Rebel sized but not exactly the 7 ship mass that Tie Fighters are. And after all the missiles are spent they have only 10 firepower compared to 14 or 16. Also even with shields to give it an extra hit that would only be 20 hit point compared to the 21-24 hit points of a Tie Fighter Swarm. Another thing about Howlrunner is that his ability can affect more than one ship a turn while Airen Cracken can only buff up a single ship per turn.

I think Z-95s were never designed to be a swarm rather they were designed to be a pair (which is why I got 2). They are 2 ships that only take 24 points which is around the point cost of a unique X-wing. You could use a single Airen Cracken as a cheap support ship for only 19 points which is just 1 more point than a Goldie. So that is the case behind Headhunter swarms vs Tie Fighter Swarms.

If a squadron of five or six Z-95s are loaded with ordnance and manage to unload it without taking out another ship then they DESERVE to lose.

I think you guys are missing out on the economics of this, and how pricy it is to run a z-95 swarm. The game has been out for 2 years, and back in the day, tie swarm was basically all you could fly as an imperial player. Furthermore, every player has a core set, starting them off with 2 tie fighters. Nobody had any z-95s before this wave.

So if someone wants to fly a z-swarm, they have to go out and purchase 7-8 brand new fighters strictly to run a single list. Furthermore, its' dial is far more limited than a tie fighters, so you have less movement options than a tie swarming, meaning you are more likely to block yourself.

Go out and spend that much money to run a brick of fighter craft, when I could buy a tantive, or a bunch of different ships instead? No.

Second they have a missile upgrade slot which will up the price on Headhunters.

No it doesn't, because you don't have to use that missile slot. A naked z-95 has better jousting efficiency than a naked TIE fighter, and almost matches the Howlrunner-boosted TIE. If z-95s got a cost reduction and lost the missile slot they'd be blatantly overpowered. As it is if you can go head to head with a naked z-95 swarm vs. pretty much anything else in the game you're probably going to win.

Played against 8 Bandits last night with my Han and Corran build. Han blanked a lot (like 3 times in a row) on Defense dice at range 3, and couldn't really mount an offense (much dice shaming needs to be done) to do much before the firepower took him down even with Luke and his own ability. Corran on the other hand, after escaping the first turn of 5-6 ships shooting him without a scratch, survived on his own for about 60 minutes, it was just hard to get shots lined up when there was a potential 5 ships shooting back.

If a squadron of five or six Z-95s are loaded with ordnance and manage to unload it without taking out another ship then they DESERVE to lose.

The assault missile spam may even things up against a Tie Swarm, But then what about against Shuttles or Falcons or Firesprays? Sure you would take off allot of shields and scratch up the hull with a volly but Assault missiles are only 4 attack that spend a TL but doesn't give a modification like a concussion missile. The point cost is for the Area of Effect or Splash Damage, which will make it less effective against the Big Ships.

Second they have a missile upgrade slot which will up the price on Headhunters.

No it doesn't, because you don't have to use that missile slot. A naked z-95 has better jousting efficiency than a naked TIE fighter, and almost matches the Howlrunner-boosted TIE. If z-95s got a cost reduction and lost the missile slot they'd be blatantly overpowered. As it is if you can go head to head with a naked z-95 swarm vs. pretty much anything else in the game you're probably going to win.

Which will never happen. The FFG developers clearly state in their interview with Team Covenant that they wanted 12 points to be the bare minimum cost of a ship. So no Charden Refit for your Headhunters, sorry. Also sure you could ignore the missile slot but then it goes to Howlrunner vs Airen Cracken and Howlrunner is better at buffing his ships than Cracken is.

Z-95s were never meant to be played as a swarm. Not saying that you could and again 5 ships is allot of ships for a Rebel Squadron. Also I think the below quote does have a relative point why you don't see many Z-95 swarms. 4 core sets are cheaper than 8 expansion packs.

I think you guys are missing out on the economics of this, and how pricy it is to run a z-95 swarm. The game has been out for 2 years, and back in the day, tie swarm was basically all you could fly as an imperial player. Furthermore, every player has a core set, starting them off with 2 tie fighters. Nobody had any z-95s before this wave.

So if someone wants to fly a z-swarm, they have to go out and purchase 7-8 brand new fighters strictly to run a single list. Furthermore, its' dial is far more limited than a tie fighters, so you have less movement options than a tie swarming, meaning you are more likely to block yourself.

Go out and spend that much money to run a brick of fighter craft, when I could buy a tantive, or a bunch of different ships instead? No.

Z-95s were never meant to be played as a swarm. Not saying that you could and again 5 ships is allot of ships for a Rebel Squadron. Also I think the below quote does have a relative point why you don't see many Z-95 swarms. 4 core sets are cheaper than 8 expansion packs.

I think you guys are missing out on the economics of this, and how pricy it is to run a z-95 swarm. The game has been out for 2 years, and back in the day, tie swarm was basically all you could fly as an imperial player. Furthermore, every player has a core set, starting them off with 2 tie fighters. Nobody had any z-95s before this wave.

So if someone wants to fly a z-swarm, they have to go out and purchase 7-8 brand new fighters strictly to run a single list. Furthermore, its' dial is far more limited than a tie fighters, so you have less movement options than a tie swarming, meaning you are more likely to block yourself.

Go out and spend that much money to run a brick of fighter craft, when I could buy a tantive, or a bunch of different ships instead? No.

8 Expansion packs is cheaper than 4 Core. 8 Expansions=3 Core in cost if you round to whole dollars. However, since pretty much everyone will/should buy at least one Core, it comes out to about the same to run either list.

I ran this list quite effectively a while back:

Etahn Abaht + Advanced Sensors

Tala Squadron Pilot

Tala Squadron Pilot

Tala Squadron Pilot

Tala Squadron Pilot

Tala Squadron Pilot

Going up against tie swarms was quite effective as you shoot first, and the critical effects were quite devastating, often killing 1-2 (including Howlrunner) before return fire reducing their effectiveness (especially if you take out howlrunner).

If you really want you can drop the Talas to Bandits and drop the AdvSen and you have 8 points to play with for other upgrades etc.

I just want to clear up that, IMO, missiles on Bandits with naked Talas is a mistake. Your higher PS should load ordnance so they have more target lock options and a better chance of unloading their ordnance before popping.

Unless someone can give me a reason?

I ran this list quite effectively a while back:

Etahn Abaht + Advanced Sensors

Tala Squadron Pilot

Tala Squadron Pilot

Tala Squadron Pilot

Tala Squadron Pilot

Tala Squadron Pilot

Going up against tie swarms was quite effective as you shoot first, and the critical effects were quite devastating, often killing 1-2 (including Howlrunner) before return fire reducing their effectiveness (especially if you take out howlrunner).

If you really want you can drop the Talas to Bandits and drop the AdvSen and you have 8 points to play with for other upgrades etc.

I think this is a great example of a Rebel Swarm build 5-6 ships which still is not the 7-8 of Tie Fighters and also not composed entirely of a singly class of ship. Rebel swarms can be done but it will be smaller than a Tie Swarm and while it will have mostly Z-95s it won't be composed of all Z-95s.

If a squadron of five or six Z-95s are loaded with ordnance and manage to unload it without taking out another ship then they DESERVE to lose.

The assault missile spam may even things up against a Tie Swarm, But then what about against Shuttles or Falcons or Firesprays? Sure you would take off allot of shields and scratch up the hull with a volly but Assault missiles are only 4 attack that spend a TL but doesn't give a modification like a concussion missile. The point cost is for the Area of Effect or Splash Damage, which will make it less effective against the Big Ships.

It's true that an Assault Missile is at its best when there is something to splash but it is still a 4 dice attack against what is normally a less agile ship. Sometime shooting at a big ship is also a benefit because there is less dodging potential but a bigger area.

If one is going to run five or six missile carriers I'd also recommend a couple different types of ordnance to handle different target types. As mentioned somewhere having too many Assault Missiles really doesn't do much good so instead of all Assault you may also mix in Ion Pulse for some control options and/or Clusters for damage against those low agility targets.

I just want to clear up that, IMO, missiles on Bandits with naked Talas is a mistake. Your higher PS should load ordnance so they have more target lock options and a better chance of unloading their ordnance before popping.

Unless someone can give me a reason?

I can think of two although they are probably related although the reason you use a Bandit instead of a Tala is save points or block and blockers with missiles doesn't seem like a great idea to me.

1. You have a high PS ship that can give let that Bandit acquire a TL later in the round. Dutch would let a Bandit acquire a TL at PS 6. Squad Leader could allow allow a Bandit an action if the ship using it wasn't taking an action. Cracken could even be giving the Bandit the TL opportunity after the combat phase has started.

2. If you can boost the Bandit's PS higher than the Tala allowing it to shoot first. Best when combined with point 1 above put possible in other situations even if unlikely.

I don't see why Howlrunner is such a big factor. Blount with an assault missile makes Howlrunner suicide, the re-roll is not worth having all of your ships start at 2 HP. If the TIE swarm blobs up around Howlrunner they lose. If they spread out to avoid the auto-loss from Blount's assault missile they have a chance, but the z-95 player can concentrate their forces without restrictions and the TIE player threw away the 6+ points they spent on Howlrunner.

I agree. No need to bring assault missiles even. If there is an assault missile, the ties will simply break formation. The assault missile is a special weapon to use against tightly packed swarms. What if there is no swarm? What if it is not tightly packed? Ordnance remains broken with two possible exceptions: the Proton Rocket on Darth Vader and some A-Wings and the utterly absurd Flechette Torpedo combinations designed not to hit for unlimited stress. (Munitions Failsafe and Deadeye to use your target lock to reroll hits). What is the big deal with Howlrunner? 7 rerolls on a swarm? 8 Z-95 have 16 rerolls with Target Lock and they shoot first, so why should they waste their actions on a defensive focus. After that, there should be no more Howlrunner. I would love to see what 8 Z-95 would do to a tournament with all those boring Falcon builds...