Man, I love defenders. 2 x Delta + HLC with Jonus is a beast, and even a single defender is worth being the centerpiece of your build, being tanky enough to handle it. Sure, 40pts is a lot, but you get a ship with the same number of attack dice at range 3 as a phantom, but that can take a beating.

Vessery's ability is a chance to do TL + focus with no stress on 4 dice, which is *the* dream, and I've been told that Rexler works miracles (when his ability finally triggers).

I'm loving

2x PS3 defenders with Heavy Laser Cannon

Jonus.

The re-rolls are great and it makes opponent choose targets more carefully, I always try to keep Jonus at range 3 from enemy so everyone is getting 3 green dice.

Most of the time I'll play avoid and target opportunity.

I'm loving

2x PS3 defenders with Heavy Laser Cannon

Jonus.

The re-rolls are great and it makes opponent choose targets more carefully, I always try to keep Jonus at range 3 from enemy so everyone is getting 3 green dice.

Most of the time I'll play avoid and target opportunity.

I like the sound of these Jonus plus Defender builds, might have to give them a spin. Plus it lets me try my unused and forgotten bomber( unused but not unloved)

I haven't used the shuttle enough to use it effectively with defenders I only got one a month ago, but once wave five hits we can pass focus around...

Rex with predator (40)

Howl with swarm tactics (20)

Academy x 3 (36)

What would be the best way to spend the last three or four points do you think? Stealth on howl or Rex, hull or shield on someone?

Upgrade the Academies to Obsidian Sq.

Then Dial 444-NoPred4U.

I've also found that a single Defender is not worth much in a joust, even screened it often ends up dead/crippled.

Flank with the Defender, or set it to approach slightly behind a mini-swarm and you're golden.

I haven't used the shuttle enough to use it effectively with defenders I only got one a month ago, but once wave five hits we can pass focus around...

I'm thinking the Shuttle will see a lot of love once the Decimator arrives as well. Buzzsaws and Doomshuttles won't be the only viable build...

29 points for Jendon with Fleet Officer.

32 points for Jendon with Fleet Officer & ST-321 or Weapons Engineer.

35 points for Jendon with Fleet Officer & ST-321 and Weapons Engineer.

That's a hell of a support ship.

I've only got experience with a friend I play with regularly, but I've had some good success with the support shuttle with Vessery. I've tried a few different builds and they've all be pretty fun.

I've actually found it harder to build around Rexler than Vessery, as I've found picking support elements a lot harder.

All vessery needs is a few ties with targeting computers no need to make it complex or expensive.

I've actually found it harder to build around Rexler than Vessery, as I've found picking support elements a lot harder.

Rexler and Fleet Officer should be good friends. The advantage of Rexler though is that he doesn't need support: he'll wreck enemy ships even without it.

I've got 3 defenders and tried very hard to make a 3 defender list work as yet the only success I've had has been against inexperienced players where that white K has meant their doom even when I've tried to go as easy on them as possible.

Now I'm trying out some double defender list will have to see if this fairs better.

I personally think the defender is slightly overpriced not too much maybe a point or two.

I would also love to see in the future a generic with an EPT that could make a big difference

I'd like to run Rex + PtL and 2 base Defenders at some point.

Honestly PtL really hasn't worked out well on them. Say what you will in their favor, destressing them can be irritating. Plus their available actions don't synergize well with it, unless you give them Engine Upgrade as well, and that's where the point sink can start to tip against you.

Honestly PtL really hasn't worked out well on them. Say what you will in their favor, destressing them can be irritating. Plus their available actions don't synergize well with it, unless you give them Engine Upgrade as well, and that's where the point sink can start to tip against you.

A stressed defender is a dead defender in my books

It depends. Rexlar has lasted a bit while stressed when he had Predator. I would imagine Vessory wouldn't be as hurt by stress either.

And yes, the Defender IS the best jouster in the game. It can keep a joust going indefinitely while retaining it's action; other ships can joust for a maximum of two turns (three with Adrenaline Rush) - one with action, one without, then they have to disengage. Whether other ships offer more potential damage output per point is irrelevant, one-on-one you do not want to engage Defenders in a straight-line battle.

Keeping your actions after K-turning doesn't automatically mean that it's the best jouster though. It's jousting efficiency is about the same as the TIE Advanced. The Defender just happens to have a white K-turn.

A pack of TIE Fighters is still far more efficient at jousting.

Edit: that being said, Vessery isn't bad. I used him last night:

Whisper + VI + ACD + FCS + Rebel Captive

Vessery

OGP + FCS

...which is why I said one-on-one. You're talking damage-output-per-point, which isn't actually a joust. A joust is one vs one, backwards and forwards in a straight line until someone falls off their horse.

And there is no better one-on-one, straight line jouster in the game than the TIE Defender.

...which is why I said one-on-one. You're talking damage-output-per-point, which isn't actually a joust. A joust is one vs one, backwards and forwards in a straight line until someone falls off their horse.

And there is no better one-on-one, straight line jouster in the game than the TIE Defender.

Well, since we are going no-limit, I see your Delta Squadron Pilot and raise you Fat Chewie!

The past tournaments I've been at I've easily wiped the floors with the defenders I faced. Even when opponents use a red turn to throw you off you know exactly where they will be next turn or they won't be getting an action. They are a decent ship for sure but I havnt placed my bets on them yet nor am I afraid of seeing one or 2 or 3 them in a list haha. I wonder how 2 firesprays and a doom shuttle vs 3 defenders would turn out?

If you are able to predict exactly which 11 possible maneuvers you're opponent is choosing every turn (sounds like the smart play is losing an action) you are A)an amazing player worthy of worlds contention and the fact that he's flying a defender is irrelevant, B) playing against some pretty subpar opponents who are flying very predictably, C)a telepath, D) happened to have that really lucky streak of wins that happens to everyone every once in awhile (and therefore the fact that they were flying defenders is irrelevant).

If you win worlds it's A (heck place top 8, go ahead, I dares ya!)

If you can tell me exactly what I'm thinking right now (hint: it's not Where r we gonna find Cindy Crawford and hip waders this time a night) it's C.

If you 1 shot whisper cloaked, with a focus token, at range 3 through an asteroid with an unmodified Xwing shot you might be in the middle of D (however, if this happens to you soon, D might have passed you.

Once a defender does a red maneuver and takes a stress the only possible maneuvers he can do to ditch that stress is a straight 2-5. Most players a.) opt to ditch the stress as soon as possible therefore becoming predictable or b.) leave the stress thereby limiting damage/defense/movement potential. It has nothing to do with being a telepath or Cindy Crawford it's pretty easy to see the defenders and stress don't mix. On top of all that if they leave the stress on there both your 1 and 2 hard turns are gone which leaves you only with a 3 hard turn to try and outmaneuver your opponent or your Kturn.

So it's B). I miscounted: The defender has 13 green and white maneuvers to choose from. That's more than some ships have on thier entire dial. A white 5 or a turn three should get that ship out of a lot more trouble than green and focus. Sometimes you need to push the "get the f outa here button" and reset. Especially with the defender.

...which is why I said one-on-one. You're talking damage-output-per-point, which isn't actually a joust. A joust is one vs one, backwards and forwards in a straight line until someone falls off their horse.

And there is no better one-on-one, straight line jouster in the game than the TIE Defender.

Well, since we are going no-limit, I see your Delta Squadron Pilot and raise you Fat Chewie!

le sigh.

"I'll see your "Fat Chewie" and raise you Brath with HLC, Outmaneuver & Shield Upgrade. K-turn to face me, eat stress and lose your actions or donut, sacrifice your firing arc, lose your agility and any use from C3PO."

But who said anything about no limits? If you want me to have the Delta Squadron, fine. Pit the basic ship against the basic ship. You then get the Outer Rime Smuggler. Find me a ship that can consistently deteat a Delta Squadron Pilot from the other lowest PS ships available, with no other upgrades, and taking the games straight line movement mechanics and actions into consideration.

So it's B). I miscounted: The defender has 13 green and white maneuvers to choose from. That's more than some ships have on thier entire dial. A white 5 or a turn three should get that ship out of a lot more trouble than green and focus. Sometimes you need to push the "get the f outa here button" and reset. Especially with the defender.

...which is why I said one-on-one. You're talking damage-output-per-point, which isn't actually a joust. A joust is one vs one, backwards and forwards in a straight line until someone falls off their horse.

And there is no better one-on-one, straight line jouster in the game than the TIE Defender.

Well, since we are going no-limit, I see your Delta Squadron Pilot and raise you Fat Chewie!

le sigh.

"I'll see your "Fat Chewie" and raise you Brath with HLC, Outmaneuver & Shield Upgrade. K-turn to face me, eat stress and lose your actions or donut, sacrifice your firing arc, lose your agility and any use from C3PO."

But who said anything about no limits? If you want me to have the Delta Squadron, fine. Pit the basic ship against the basic ship. You then get the Outer Rime Smuggler. Find me a ship that can consistently deteat a Delta Squadron Pilot from the other lowest PS ships available, with no other upgrades, and taking the games straight line movement mechanics and actions into consideration.

Yeah I would take Brath in that fight more times than not. Brath loves him some large ships. I'm pretty sure it is what the designers had in mind for him.

It depends. Rexlar has lasted a bit while stressed when he had Predator. I would imagine Vessory wouldn't be as hurt by stress either.

Its risky though. I had a stressed Defender fly himself off the board because he got Ioned. I couldn't do a 2 or 1 hard that would have saved him from going off the edge because I was stress. The only option was a 3 hard which put him barely off the edge. Purposely stressing your Defender is just not a wise choice, especially going up against ships with Ion Cannons. If it had a bank that was green it would be alright, but its stuck with going straight.

I love this thread. The Defender is my favorite Tie, even though they eat points.

However, I probably love it because it's basically a Rebel style fighter in philosophy, and I am by default a Rebel player.

I can't wait till the Decimator is out and I can fly a Decimator and Defender combination. Which will do doubt be munched by better lists, but at least I'll be flying ships I love.

...which is why I said one-on-one. You're talking damage-output-per-point, which isn't actually a joust. A joust is one vs one, backwards and forwards in a straight line until someone falls off their horse.

And there is no better one-on-one, straight line jouster in the game than the TIE Defender.

Well, since we are going no-limit, I see your Delta Squadron Pilot and raise you Fat Chewie!

le sigh.

"I'll see your "Fat Chewie" and raise you Brath with HLC, Outmaneuver & Shield Upgrade. K-turn to face me, eat stress and lose your actions or donut, sacrifice your firing arc, lose your agility and any use from C3PO."

Rexler Brath + Outmaneuver + Heavy Laser Cannon + Shield Upgrade

vs.

Han Solo + Lone Wolf + Luke Skywalker + C-3P0 + Millennium Falcon + Counter-Measures

That would be interesting. My money is on Han. To try and enforce the jousting mentality on the Falcon you could also try:

Han Solo + Lone Wolf + Luke Skywalker + Tactician + Millennium Falcon + Anti-Pursuit Lasers

What do you mean by this part? Do you mean only using straights and K-turns? I can only think of one example of where this strategy was used competitively, it was at GenCon Finals in 2013.

In any event, here's a new ship whose lowest PS ship should be able to take on the Delta Squadron Pilot 1v1.

The past tournaments I've been at I've easily wiped the floors with the defenders I faced. Even when opponents use a red turn to throw you off you know exactly where they will be next turn or they won't be getting an action. They are a decent ship for sure but I havnt placed my bets on them yet nor am I afraid of seeing one or 2 or 3 them in a list haha. I wonder how 2 firesprays and a doom shuttle vs 3 defenders would turn out?

If you are able to predict exactly which 11 possible maneuvers you're opponent is choosing every turn (sounds like the smart play is losing an action) you are A)an amazing player worthy of worlds contention and the fact that he's flying a defender is irrelevant, B) playing against some pretty subpar opponents who are flying very predictably, C)a telepath, D) happened to have that really lucky streak of wins that happens to everyone every once in awhile (and therefore the fact that they were flying defenders is irrelevant).

If you win worlds it's A (heck place top 8, go ahead, I dares ya!)

If you can tell me exactly what I'm thinking right now (hint: it's not Where r we gonna find Cindy Crawford and hip waders this time a night) it's C.

If you 1 shot whisper cloaked, with a focus token, at range 3 through an asteroid with an unmodified Xwing shot you might be in the middle of D (however, if this happens to you soon, D might have passed you.

Once a defender does a red maneuver and takes a stress the only possible maneuvers he can do to ditch that stress is a straight 2-5. Most players a.) opt to ditch the stress as soon as possible therefore becoming predictable or b.) leave the stress thereby limiting damage/defense/movement potential. It has nothing to do with being a telepath or Cindy Crawford it's pretty easy to see the defenders and stress don't mix. On top of all that if they leave the stress on there both your 1 and 2 hard turns are gone which leaves you only with a 3 hard turn to try and outmaneuver your opponent or your Kturn.

So it's B). I miscounted: The defender has 13 green and white maneuvers to choose from. That's more than some ships have on thier entire dial. A white 5 or a turn three should get that ship out of a lot more trouble than green and focus. Sometimes you need to push the "get the f outa here button" and reset. Especially with the defender.

No your right when the defender is stressed he can do those banks and 3 hard turns but my point is your sacrificing your actions (which is the same as any ship that is stressed) but the difference between the defender and other ships is if you ever want to get your actions back you only have straight options to choose from. Basically once your stressed your eliminating 4 really good moves from your dial until you clear the stress. So in summary defenders and stress just don't mix. I've seen an xwing with stress droid cause madness for the defenders before.