So then again, why take Rexler in the first place ?

Because four crits in one blast at Range 3.

So then again, why take Rexler in the first place ?

Because four crits in one blast at Range 3.

And a dead enemy doesn't need to be defended against.

So then again, why take Rexler in the first place ?

Because four crits in one blast at Range 3.

And a dead enemy doesn't need to be defended against.

The problem with Rexler is that the chances of this happening are very, very small and not something you can bank on. You also have to spend his very important defense focus.

Vessery on the other hand can consistently toss out 3/4 hits every time he rolls the dice. Need a PS8 Vessery? Slap VI on him. Otherwise drop Outmaneuver on him and you're good to go.

When Brath's ability works it is game-changing. The problem is...it very rarely does unless you're in the late-game. If you were to really compare the two, Vessery is much better in the early game and Brath is much better in the late game.

I prefer to front-load, which is why I pick Vessery. I don't care if Vessery loses his ability late game, since the other team should be pretty much dead at that point.

So then again, why take Rexler in the first place ?

Because four crits in one blast at Range 3.

And a dead enemy doesn't need to be defended against.

The problem with Rexler is that the chances of this happening are very, very small and not something you can bank on.

But when it happens... it is glorious.

As will Predator + Howlie at R1, if you go full-tilt bananas on the offence.

You misunderstood me. The reason i don't like rexler is because defenders require that focus to hold on as long as possible, since you want to kill your opponent slowly but surely, until it gets to later stages of the game where the white 4k turn is a game changing machine.

Having predator + howlie at range 1, doesn't change the fact that Rexler's ability to shine requires the use of a focus token, which you won't have for defense then. So then again, why take Rexler in the first place ?

No I understood you just fine.

I've been flying the above + a mini-swarm a lot and I find that it is only against Turreted Ships, or super flankers (Echo/Whisper/Soontir); that I need to use the Focus token for defense due to the # of hits going out and the formation I fly in (Rexler at the back, pointed/poised to flank and to (ab)use his white K-Turn in the mid/late game.

I do agree that the main benefit of Rexler is the natural PS 8 and not his pilot ability, when it does kick in however (1-2 times per game so far), it is a game-changer.

So then again, why take Rexler in the first place ?

Because four crits in one blast at Range 3.

And a dead enemy doesn't need to be defended against.

The problem with Rexler is that the chances of this happening are very, very small and not something you can bank on.

But when it happens... it is glorious.

Yeah last game i played i landed three hits which i turned to crits ended up reducing the falcons agility to 0 and the tie fighters with rexler stripped 4 hit points killing it outright.

It was a thing of beauty

Rexler is a crit machine that can work alone. Lone Wolf or Fleet Officer will help him a lot. Vessery is also pretty **** good but he needs to be built around: gotta admit it's fun to pair him with a Weapons Engineer FCS Phantom.

Rexler is a crit machine that can work alone. Lone Wolf or Fleet Officer will help him a lot. Vessery is also pretty **** good but he needs to be built around: gotta admit it's fun to pair him with a Weapons Engineer FCS Phantom.

The name says it all.

Wrecks ya, brah.

So then again, why take Rexler in the first place ?

Because four crits in one blast at Range 3.

You are talking about some massive luck even with predator + howlrunner (which are something you should sum up to your already 44 point investment, since i am guessing you are pointing at a HLC with those 4 crits).

2 dice rerolls is good, but if you are using the focus already, withouth it it isn't as reliable.

And then, you remove your focus token, and your 47 point ship (predator + HLC) suvirval rate is the same as 2 Ties... withouth focus.

By the way, i had actually played Rexler + HLC + Predator more than twice. Too expensive in my opinion and luck made him always unreliable. 2 Defenders HLC + Jonus gave much better results, including against fat falcons, since you keep the focus tokens until you get shot at.

Keffisch, you can't make a Howlie + 3 Ties swarm with a Rexler HLC predator by the way. The points aren't there. Yes, the main benefit is the PS 8, and like in the case of bobafett, it is too pricey for what you get.

Howlrunner doesn't work with the HLC. Her card specifically says "primary weapon."

I finally played against a Brath + Predator + HLC. And though he didnt use his ability to much benefit, the PS 8 was good, and Predator let him have solid shots even when he spent the focus on defense. I was a fan.

I would like to point out at this juncture that personally I don't even own a TIE Defender, but having played 5 games against them and done a sum total of one point of damage in those five games, I'm in total, shell-shocked awe.

...and that one point of damage came form a Blount Ion Pulse Missile.

I would like to point out at this juncture that personally I don't even own a TIE Defender, but having played 5 games against them and done a sum total of one point of damage in those five games, I'm in total, shell-shocked awe.

...and that one point of damage came form a Blount Ion Pulse Missile.

Join ussssssss

Join ussssssss

Join ussssssss

C'mon it's cheap one fire spray some defenders and your all set.

Join ussssssss

Best. Reply. Ever.

I love Vessary for completely non-game-related reasons: because he was really cool in Isard's Revenge.

The target lock thing is pretty awesome, too, though.

So then again, why take Rexler in the first place ?

Because four crits in one blast at Range 3.

You are talking about some massive luck even with predator + howlrunner (which are something you should sum up to your already 44 point investment, since i am guessing you are pointing at a HLC with those 4 crits).

And you're taking it very literally. I don't expect Rexler Brath to reliably do that, I'm simply drawing attention to how explosive his ability is, and how he can lay down crits pretty reliably.

Keffisch, you can't make a Howlie + 3 Ties swarm with a Rexler HLC predator by the way. The points aren't there. Yes, the main benefit is the PS 8, and like in the case of bobafett, it is too pricey for what you get.

101 points because Predator costs 3. Lone Wolf, however, costs 2...

Keffisch, you can't make a Howlie + 3 Ties swarm with a Rexler HLC predator by the way. The points aren't there. Yes, the main benefit is the PS 8, and like in the case of bobafett, it is too pricey for what you get.

101 points because Predator costs 3. Lone Wolf, however, costs 2...

Yeah baby! That one point too short was really bugging me... That will be one hell of a team!

On top of that, the damage output goes up by around 70% going from 2 attack to 3 attack. In all, the jousting value of the TIE Defender is around the same as 2 TIE Fighters. I just retooled my scripts and the new number is actually 23 points. But it costs 30 points. It's really hard to make back that deficit with just having a white K-turn.

So does this mean that two TIE Fighters roughly have a 50/50 chance to take down one naked TIE Defender?

Not exactly. For one thing, those numbers are meta wide averages, and specific matchups will be slightly different. The 2 attack of the TIE Fighters will have a harder time getting through the 3 agility.

Secondly, the jousting value only considers the 4 stats and the ship cost. The Defender K-turn is quite nice.

Thirdly, the numbers assume a 100 point squad. At smaller point caps, more expensive ships become a relatively better value, since their damage output does not get reduced until the ship is 100% destroyed.

So all things considered, I would expect the Defender to win in a straight up fight 2v1. But if it were 8v3 then you would have a very different answer.

So does this mean the following squad would be close to equel in performance in a tournament as a standard TIE swarm with the following rule, Swarm tactics cannot be used on the Delta.

Howlrunner, Swarm tactics

Dark Curse

Night Beast

Academy Pilot

Academy Pilot

Delta Squadron Pilot

This squad is over by 5 points and not possible. This is assuming the 23-25 points a Delta should cost from your calculations.

I would like to point out at this juncture that personally I don't even own a TIE Defender, but having played 5 games against them and done a sum total of one point of damage in those five games, I'm in total, shell-shocked awe.

...and that one point of damage came form a Blount Ion Pulse Missile.

it would be more impressive if it wasn't Blount...or even more impressive if Blount missed!

So does this mean the following squad would be close to equel in performance in a tournament as a standard TIE swarm with the following rule, Swarm tactics cannot be used on the Delta.

Howlrunner, Swarm tactics

Dark Curse

Night Beast

Academy Pilot

Academy Pilot

Delta Squadron Pilot

This squad is over by 5 points and not possible. This is assuming the 23-25 points a Delta should cost from your calculations.

Total squad jousting power is a whole other topic that I should write piece for. I don't try and calculate how PS bid, upgrades, and pilot abilities (other than Howlrunner) factor in.

Total squad jousting power can be calculated as:

squad power = (total normalized attack) * (total normalized defense)

where the normalized attack and defense are relative to a TIE Fighter's attack and defense. The numerical result is equal to the number of TIE Fighters that the squad could kill if they came at it one ship at a time, assuming that the entering TIEs could get "partial" attacks if they are dramatically outnumbered, since I'm just using average damage and durability values here. (I.e. in practice if you tried this, the 1-TIE damage output would be the same regardless of how many ships you have, until you only have a couple ships remaining.) Squad jousting efficiency is the squad power divided by the equivalent combat power of a group of Academy TIEs at the same points:

(points/12) ^ 2 = points^2 / 144

So for the most basic example we have 8 TIE Fighters:

96 points

power = 8*8 = 64

efficiency = 64 / ( (96/12)^2 ) = 100% (our baseline squad)

A 7 TIE Swarm with Howlrunner is more complicated because she increases friendly ships' damage output by about 35% on ships with 2 attack dice. So for this squad:

90 points

Howlrunner

6x Academy Pilot

power = (1 + 6*1.35)*7 = 63.7

efficiency = 63.7 / ( (90/12)^2 ) = 113%

Once Howlrunner dies, then it obviously regresses back to N^2, where N = # of ships.

For the squad that you listed, you need to know the TIE Defender's durability and attack. I'm going to estimate those as 1.9 and 1.7 respectively. Incidentally, the Howlrunner buff is also worth about 35% on 3 attack ships as well.

So I'll strip out all the non-jousting factors, and modify your squad to:

96 points

Howlrunner

4x Academy Pilot

Delta Squadron Pilot

power = (1 + 4*1.35 + 1.7*1.35)*(5 + 1.9) = 60

efficiency = 60 / ( (96/12)^2 ) = 93.75%

Or another classic archetype, 2X2B:

X-wing durability: 1.20

B-wing durability: 1.42

86 points, or 82 points at PS1

2x Rookie Pilot

2x Blue Squadron Pilot

power = (4*1.7)*(2*1.2 + 2*1.42) = 35.6

efficiency = 35.6 / ( (82/12)^2 ) = 76%

In reality the 2X2B will have some pretty powerful upgrades and synergies if built and played correctly, which will help offset its lower jousting efficiency.

Or consider the rebel swarm BXXZZZ (100 points, or 95.5 at PS1):

power = (3*1.7 + 3)*(1.42 + 2*1.2 + 3) = 55.2

efficiency = 55.2 / ( (95.5/12)^2 ) = 87%

Here the total squad efficiency is basically being brought down by the 2 Xs, and to a lesser extent the B-wing. I'm also not including a "curve correction" that makes more expensive ships appropriately more powerful, whereas I am considering that in the individual ship jousting values. This would help squads with more expensive ships, like the TIE Defender or X's and B's, with more of an effect the more expensive ships you have in the squad, and the more costly the ships are. I haven't worked on that math yet.

*hisses at the nasty person using maths* hurts our brains precious.

What is the math behind the 1.7 for 3 dice attack ships?

Using the TIE Fighter as your base, does that mean that 2 two dice attacks will generate more damage than 1 three dice attack?

When I look at average hits rolled vs average evades rolled that doesn't seem to add up. I can see it defiantly has potential to against a 0-1 defense die ships, but 2 defense die or more and it looks to me that three attack dice are better than 2 two dice attacks? What am I missing?

The methodology is described in the math thread of mine that Gecko linked a couple pages back.

Its an average of at least 4 different variables: defense dice, attacker action, defender action, and range bin.