OK, hoping not to commit threadnomancy, but.....

Who is Tarkin? We need his back story.

Remember in the original (Ep4 ANH). You have Vader who is the ultimate super bad guy villain who can kill with a glance even from another ship in space...

So here he is choking out some dude bothered by his lack of faith when Tarkin orders Vader to release him.

AND VADER DOES!!!!

So if Vader is such a b@[email protected] does that make Tarkin????

Tarkin has some backstory in the Clone Wars show. He and Anakin seemed to agree on a lot of things.

You have to remember, Vader exists outside the chain of command.

Vader and the Emperor to a lesser extent don't have any direct say in military matters. Now, that sort of goes out the window when you can kill someone with their mind and sound like James Earl Jones, but the military commanders are in charge of military operations and discipline.

Tarkin IS in command, not Vader. Tarkin knows this, and Vader knows this. If they fundamentally disagree, Vader probably wins. If Vader is doing anything else, like choking some moron who got sassy, Tarkin can and probably will overrule him. Let the moron learn his lesson, but Tarkin is the one who decides if he dies.

As for Luke 'apparently' not caring about Biggs, well, people train to deal with/are subjected to stressful situations learn to cope. Some are good at compartmentalising. Some are good at denial. Some are good at drinking. Some get therapy. Some a sociopathic. Either way, most people with military training (or comparable training if the Rebellion is willing to let you fly one of their expensive fighter craft) know that the time to grieve is not in the middle of a dog fight.

Just because we don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

How do we know Biggs even died?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ejector_seat

+

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Personal_energy_shield

=

1 Alive and Kicking Biggs Darklighter

Probably in the Outer Rim somewhere married to a smokin' hot Twi'lek.

regarding Vader

Back to the OP.

You have to remember, Vader exists outside the chain of command.

Vader and the Emperor to a lesser extent don't have any direct say in military matters. Now, that sort of goes out the window when you can kill someone with their mind and sound like James Earl Jones, but the military commanders are in charge of military operations and discipline.

Tarkin IS in command, not Vader. Tarkin knows this, and Vader knows this. If they fundamentally disagree, Vader probably wins. If Vader is doing anything else, like choking some moron who got sassy, Tarkin can and probably will overrule him. Let the moron learn his lesson, but Tarkin is the one who decides if he dies.

This, though I have always seen it as Vader does have actual, chain of command, authority within a particular task force. That he was probably given a small fleet and assets for hunting down the Jedi and then later the alliance, and within that command structure he has absolute authority to do whatever he wanted, as long as he got results. That is what we see in empire with the executer. In ANH though he wasn't on one of his ships, he was on Tarkins vessel, so ultimately he was subject to Tarkins orders (unless Tarkins ended up doing something that Vader could use to justify killing him over, of course).

So the forthcoming Darth Vader comic specifically looks at how Vader can go from being second fiddle at the Death Star, and then _losing_ said Death Star, to being fully, solidly IN CHARGE as Empire opens.

Which, you know? He should have been taken down a rung or three. Instead he seems more politically powerful than ever. That looks like an interesting story.

The fact that a pair of Jedi can walk into a quiet bar, lop someone's arm off, and expect the bar to accept "Jedi business" as a reasonable explanation... That's a problem. That's the problem that makes Palpatine's framing the Jedi for an attempted coup seem utterly plausible. That's the sort of problem for which Order 66 is a reasonable solution.

Eh...what's this "framing" nonsense?

The Jedi did attempt a coup. Like, literally for real, were trying to overthrow the government and take over.

Whether you agree with their motivation to do that, or not, doesn't really change the fact they DID attempt a coup.

I think they have the authority to arrest Sith, though given that the Sith in question was the sitting head of government does make it a trickier issue.

And in the novelization, Palpetine frames them for attempted murder, rather than arrest. It's that which pushes the Republic to make his dictatorship permanent. It's possible I'm conflating what I read and what I saw.

I think the scenes of Luke talking to Biggs we're filmed but cut from the final film. My only source was a picture Sta Wars story book I had back in the day that had a still from the film of this in it. I ended up getting the novel to see if this bit was in the story at the time.

Once Porkins went down, Luke's heart was cold and dead. While I'm sure he cared Biggs died, he had to make sure Porkins sacrifice was not in vain.

Edit: As any loyal imperial citizen knows, Palpatine was a hero, and was taken from us, too soon.

The people behind the whole Yuuzhan Vong thing used Isaac Asimov's Foundation's concept about merging the galaxy into one cohesive unit to fight off against extra-galactic invaders. And the whole mastermindedness, which is what the logic for the "good" of the Empire was: an attempt to unify the galaxy against extra-galactic invaders.

So the forthcoming Darth Vader comic specifically looks at how Vader can go from being second fiddle at the Death Star, and then _losing_ said Death Star, to being fully, solidly IN CHARGE as Empire opens.

Which, you know? He should have been taken down a rung or three. Instead he seems more politically powerful than ever. That looks like an interesting story.

Well remember that if Tarkin listened to Vader and launched the 1000( I don't remember the actual number or care to look it up) Tie Fighters that the Death Star had then they would not have lost the Death Star. Why demote the guy that had the solution when he passed it up the chain of command and his superior was a dumb a$$.

OT: I really wonder what would have happened had the Death Star lived, would the Death Star 2 have been built or would some lucky Vong pilot have set of the chain reaction to blow it up. Could a Coralskipper's "Magma gun" blow up a Death Star? (as far as I know its a particle weapon, but being "magma" it has no explosive element to whatever was in that exhaust port to cause the chain reaction)

The fact that a pair of Jedi can walk into a quiet bar, lop someone's arm off, and expect the bar to accept "Jedi business" as a reasonable explanation... That's a problem. That's the problem that makes Palpatine's framing the Jedi for an attempted coup seem utterly plausible. That's the sort of problem for which Order 66 is a reasonable solution.

The Jedi may think of themselves as guardians of peace and justice, but I'm not sure anyone else thought of them that way. Terrifying magic beings accountable only to their own consciousness are not a comfort to most people.

That's not a problem the Sith created. But it is a problem they had an easy time recruiting from.

You think disarming someone in self-Defense is going to shock the Mos Eisley Cantina crowd? It ain't no "quite bar", it's a wretched hive of scum and villainy. The local crime boss feeds slave girls to rancors and people stand around and cheer. Han guns down Greedo and half of the patrons don't even turn around. Trust me, they've seen worse, and still not cared.

However, as for how the Jedi are viewed, I'm inclined to agree with you, although technically Obi-Wan was upholding peace and justice: Neutralising a threat to the peace with our unnecessary malice.

This

http://img-9gag-lol.9cache.com/photo/ayp0rEy_700b_v1.jpg

The fact that a pair of Jedi can walk into a quiet bar, lop someone's arm off, and expect the bar to accept "Jedi business" as a reasonable explanation... That's a problem. That's the problem that makes Palpatine's framing the Jedi for an attempted coup seem utterly plausible. That's the sort of problem for which Order 66 is a reasonable solution.

The Jedi may think of themselves as guardians of peace and justice, but I'm not sure anyone else thought of them that way. Terrifying magic beings accountable only to their own consciousness are not a comfort to most people.

That's not a problem the Sith created. But it is a problem they had an easy time recruiting from.

You think disarming someone in self-Defense is going to shock the Mos Eisley Cantina crowd? It ain't no "quite bar", it's a wretched hive of scum and villainy. The local crime boss feeds slave girls to rancors and people stand around and cheer. Han guns down Greedo and half of the patrons don't even turn around. Trust me, they've seen worse, and still not cared.

However, as for how the Jedi are viewed, I'm inclined to agree with you, although technically Obi-Wan was upholding peace and justice: Neutralising a threat to the peace with our unnecessary malice.

He is talking about chasing Zam in AotC not the confrontation an ANH

The fact that a pair of Jedi can walk into a quiet bar, lop someone's arm off, and expect the bar to accept "Jedi business" as a reasonable explanation... That's a problem. That's the problem that makes Palpatine's framing the Jedi for an attempted coup seem utterly plausible. That's the sort of problem for which Order 66 is a reasonable solution.

The Jedi may think of themselves as guardians of peace and justice, but I'm not sure anyone else thought of them that way. Terrifying magic beings accountable only to their own consciousness are not a comfort to most people.

That's not a problem the Sith created. But it is a problem they had an easy time recruiting from.

You think disarming someone in self-Defense is going to shock the Mos Eisley Cantina crowd? It ain't no "quite bar", it's a wretched hive of scum and villainy. The local crime boss feeds slave girls to rancors and people stand around and cheer. Han guns down Greedo and half of the patrons don't even turn around. Trust me, they've seen worse, and still not cared.

However, as for how the Jedi are viewed, I'm inclined to agree with you, although technically Obi-Wan was upholding peace and justice: Neutralising a threat to the peace with our unnecessary malice.

He is talking about chasing Zam in AotC not the confrontation an ANH

Well...that certainly changes things.

The Jedi were like the SA Working for the corrupt government until replaced rather bloodily by the SS.

As for why Luke wasnt more upset about losing Biggs. He knew Biggs was wanting to die simply by the fact he committed all the 'before the battle' sins except one.

He said that they were 'a couple of shooting stars and they would never be stopped'.while climbing into his fighter. keyphrase 'never be stopped'

And then told Luke they could catch up after the battle.

About the only thing he didnt do was give some dame a ring or at least a mysterious ring sized box and tell her not to open it until he got back. These are important rules. Its probably good that people rarely eat in the SW universe or he would have been hunting for a pineapple salad.

But seeing all this Luke realised that the drooping of Biggs stache was a sign of the strain he was under. And so he could wish his friend well in \whatever afterlife he chose and get on with destroying the Death Star.

Of course if Wedge hadnt lost his nerve and bailed then Lukes best bud might have survived and become the new Burt Reynolds allowing the two of them to team up again in 'Smokey and the bandit-Corvette Summer'

If I can be serious for a moment...

In the original cut of Star Wars, Biggs was just a guy. He's never even called Biggs. So why would Luke react to his death any more than he would to Porkins' or Red Leaders'?

Yes he was. He was referred to by name 3 times, and called Biggs directly once at least (maybe twice if you count instance 2 below)

The 3 times where Biggs is mentioned by name:

1) During Luke's arguement about going to the academy with Owen "That's what you said when Biggs and Tank left"

2) Just before Wedge saves Luke's behind from the TIE on his tail during the pre trench run dogfighting he says "Blast it Biggs where are you?"

3) As Luke is about to start his trench run he says over the comms "Biggs, Wedge, let's close up. We're going in, we're going in full throttle" so he's actually speaking directly to Biggs and referring to him by name.

I've just checked all those by watching my DVD of the laser disc transfers, which is the closest to the original I have on hand.

Kinda OT but was it in one of the Republic Commando novels where it was some clones making fun of the Jedi saying if they really were so powerful they would have read the contingency orders and Order 66(not a very subtle number) would never have happened? In addition once again if the Jedi were smart instead of 4 Jedi charging into Palaptine's quarters they SHOULD have executed Order 65 (or tried to at least) considering that Palpatine was powerful enough to have hidden himself from the ENTIRE Jedi Council for how many years even meeting in person

Bite your tongue. RepCom is never off topic. But yes, it was in one of them.

This

http://img-9gag-lol.9cache.com/photo/ayp0rEy_700b_v1.jpg

Best thing ever.

Kinda OT but was it in one of the Republic Commando novels where it was some clones making fun of the Jedi saying if they really were so powerful they would have read the contingency orders and Order 66...

TCW season 6 covers this. No one but a few of the cloaners, Palp and Dokku knew about order 66.

I always got the impression Vader "obeyed" Tarkin as far as it was convenient. His "as you wish" is just dripping with "okay, but only because I feel like it".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5aIQlJ0v-w

I can understand why they left it out the dialogue is dubious at best but still..And evidently Bespin is a hive of rebel activity

Kinda OT but was it in one of the Republic Commando novels where it was some clones making fun of the Jedi saying if they really were so powerful they would have read the contingency orders and Order 66...

TCW season 6 covers this. No one but a few of the cloaners, Palp and Dokku knew about order 66.

I got the impression all of the orders were published in a manual or were part of the flash training routine the clones went under, and even so if they Jedi see Order 65 and Order 67 but they don't see an Order 66 in the Logs that should raise a few eyebrows

Luke hates Biggs, just like everyone else. Smart kid.

It always bothered me that Luke was so indifferent about Biggs' death, especially since the "sad music" swelled instead when Red Leader died. That whole thing was cut wrong.

It also bothered me pre-special edition, without the scene where he meets up with Biggs: Luke went from being super moody and whiny about Han leaving, then seconds later suddenly ultra-hyper, smiling, "R2 is totally like my BFF he's the greatest! LOL"

Uh... yeah, we're missing something here.