I've been playing a Howlless named swarm of late, with Predator on a BSP and Mauler. I have to say, I'm not all that impressed with it on TIEs.

Another reason is that it is also far cheaper to acquire lots of black squadron pilots than alot of alpha's. Since Imp aces doesn't come with them.

Another reason is that it is also far cheaper to acquire lots of black squadron pilots than alot of alpha's. Since Imp aces doesn't come with them.

Is it any easier to come by Predators?

I've been flying a lot of Blacks with Predator and they're more attractive than the Alpha, to me. Higher PS (and PS4 you can spam) and cheaper points cost win out over the 3 base attacks and slightly better dial, in my mind.

Another reason is that it is also far cheaper to acquire lots of black squadron pilots than alot of alpha's. Since Imp aces doesn't come with them.

$40(30) for 2 BSP in core

$15(10) for 1 BSP xpac

Not seeing the cheapness?

Why would having alphas in Aces be cheaper anyways? Its twice the cost of a single ship xpac.

Well I think its more of the idea of not being constricted to howlrunner, though in just points its a 5 pt opportunity cost, 2 to go to black over academy and 3 for predator, so once you get past 3 it starts to be less efficient (imo) than just running howlrunner swarm as normal. (ruthlessness swarm with howlrunner is an entirely different thing though)

I've been playing a Howlless named swarm of late, with Predator on a BSP and Mauler. I have to say, I'm not all that impressed with it on TIEs.

What didn't you like? Just underwhelmed for 3 points? That's the main thing I see for 3 points, that and when I lose I can't use my dice as any kind of excuse

It was okay as filler, but it wasn't as amazing as some people are making it out to be. So yeah, just underwhelming. Part of the issue is that it's completely useless when you roll well, and it's far easier to roll two natural hits on a TIE than a ship with a higher primary weapon value.

It was okay as filler, but it wasn't as amazing as some people are making it out to be. So yeah, just underwhelming. Part of the issue is that it's completely useless when you roll well, and it's far easier to roll two natural hits on a TIE than a ship with a higher primary weapon value.

Which gets back to my point about Alpha Squadron...

Which gets back to my point about Alpha Squadron...

Which I agree with wholeheartedly. I also think there's a lot to be said for Outmaneuver in place of Predator.

Another reason is that it is also far cheaper to acquire lots of black squadron pilots than alot of alpha's. Since Imp aces doesn't come with them.

$40(30) for 2 BSP in core

$15(10) for 1 BSP xpac

Not seeing the cheapness?

Why would having alphas in Aces be cheaper anyways? Its twice the cost of a single ship xpac.

I believe the point was that you need to buy a separate Tie Defender for the predator card.

Another reason is that it is also far cheaper to acquire lots of black squadron pilots than alot of alpha's. Since Imp aces doesn't come with them.

$40(30) for 2 BSP in core

$15(10) for 1 BSP xpac

Not seeing the cheapness?

Why would having alphas in Aces be cheaper anyways? Its twice the cost of a single ship xpac.

I believe the point was that you need to buy a separate Tie Defender for the predator card.

But I don't need pred on alphas, meaning it is cheaper to get a lot of Alphas vs BSP with pred. The opposite of what he said. Even ignoring predator I don't see how BSP are cheaper to acquire than alpha. Just wondering if I had missed some way to get cheap TIE fighters.

Depending on your squad though, Interceptors tend to draw more fire then Ties anyway. So that can factor into whether you take BSP+P rather than Alphas.

I have a serious question: why do people prefer Black Squadron + Predator to Alpha Squadron?

It is a good question and I'm almost amazed at some of the answers.

BSP + Predator advantages:

+3 Pilot Skill

-1 Point

Occasionally roll a total of 4 dice.

BSP + Predator disadvantage:

Only gets to roll 2 dice while Alpha gets to roll 3. Predator may often neutralize this drawback but Alpha can land 3 hits while BSP can not.

No Boost

Fewer Green Maneuvers on Dial.

Requires getting Predator which means a TIE Defender although may seem to ignore this disadvantage.

Now there are times saving 1 point on a ship, or 2 points for a pair, will be critical for letting you field other ships you want. There are also be times the BSP's PS 4 can be important. At least this thread started with the idea of just having a couple TIE Fighter's equipped with Predator instead of trying to outfit an entire swarm with Predator.

If you are going to start digging into comparisons you also should be looking at BSP + Predator vs. Backstabber, Dark Curse, or Mauler. If you consistently rerolling two dice every attack (which you shouldn't just based on odds) it may be a better value than these "cheaper" options but if you're valuing BSP because of the PS and cheaper cost when compared to the Alpha those same things mean Backstabber is almost certainly better and Dark Curse may be as well although the comparison is a lot harder to make.

This is the list I'm currently running, and will continue to run for the foreseeable future:

17 Mauler Mithel

3 Predator

16 Backstabber

16 Dark Curse

15 Night Beast

15 Winged Gundark

14 Black Squadron Pilot

3 Outmaneuver

99/100

---

Predator comes in very handy when Mauler gets his 4 dice, and the BSP is there to support Backstabber as a flanking element. The only issue I have is the unnecessary decision to make Night Beast's ability useless in the situations that you can make the most of it. C'mon FFG, would it really have been so bad to get a free focus after clearing a stress?

BSP also benefit pretty well from opportunist. If you run a few higher skill ships to strip focus then you get a nice 3 dice ship for 18 points that still gets it's action. IMO it's more flexible then an alpha squad. I think a mix of BSP with opportunist, predator and outmaneuver would be fun to try.

BSP also benefit pretty well from opportunist. If you run a few higher skill ships to strip focus then you get a nice 3 dice ship for 18 points that still gets it's action. IMO it's more flexible then an alpha squad. I think a mix of BSP with opportunist, predator and outmaneuver would be fun to try.

Outmaneuver seems like the only real decent choice. I don't see how 'sometimes' getting 3 dice attack(or 2 dice with 1 re-roll) is better than always getting it. PS and maybe Outmaneuver seem the only reasons to go BSP over Alpha if you have the points.

BSP also benefit pretty well from opportunist. If you run a few higher skill ships to strip focus then you get a nice 3 dice ship for 18 points that still gets it's action. IMO it's more flexible then an alpha squad. I think a mix of BSP with opportunist, predator and outmaneuver would be fun to try.

So the BSP + Opportunist costs the SAME as the Alpha and while it does get a +3 PS advantage it loses out one Boost and ONLY matches the Alpha's offensive capacity when a bunch of other conditions are met at the cost of taking a Stress Token which the TIE fighter will have a harder time getting rid of. You call that "more flexible"?

Now no one will argue that BSP can make good use of certain Elite Pilot upgrades but when you're spending a lot of points on that slot to conditionally upgrade offense you REALLY should be looking at the Interceptor instead.

Also, what is this BS taking about an upgraded BSP getting to take actions that an Alpha couldn't take? When I look at things the Alpha has all the action choices the BSP get PLUS the opportunity to Boost if desired. Predator may often allow a die to be rerolled but the Alpha just rolls an "extra" die all the time; the same with Opportunist except that EP actually restricts the TIE's choices for the next turn.

BSP also benefit pretty well from opportunist. If you run a few higher skill ships to strip focus then you get a nice 3 dice ship for 18 points that still gets it's action. IMO it's more flexible then an alpha squad. I think a mix of BSP with opportunist, predator and outmaneuver would be fun to try.

So the BSP + Opportunist costs the SAME as the Alpha and while it does get a +3 PS advantage it loses out one Boost and ONLY matches the Alpha's offensive capacity when a bunch of other conditions are met at the cost of taking a Stress Token which the TIE fighter will have a harder time getting rid of. You call that "more flexible"?

Now no one will argue that BSP can make good use of certain Elite Pilot upgrades but when you're spending a lot of points on that slot to conditionally upgrade offense you REALLY should be looking at the Interceptor instead.

Also, what is this BS taking about an upgraded BSP getting to take actions that an Alpha couldn't take? When I look at things the Alpha has all the action choices the BSP get PLUS the opportunity to Boost if desired. Predator may often allow a die to be rerolled but the Alpha just rolls an "extra" die all the time; the same with Opportunist except that EP actually restricts the TIE's choices for the next turn.

Your point being; don't send a TIE to do an Interceptors job?

Sometimes depending on your build, you don't have 1 or 2 more points to spare.

I've seen those things in action & I've flown them a few times too. I love interceptors just as much as the next guy, but there's something to be said about PS4 with an almost guaranteed two or 3 hits all the time.

Because like you all said, the interceptor can boost or barrel roll. But at the cost of hoping you hit & praying the green dice don't betray you if you're ever caught in arc.

With these BS's you can evade, barrel roll, or focus, & still feel confident in landing hits. I would even go so far as to challenge anyone if I could, with my two BS vs your two alphas.

I am not saying PS4 is not nice, but 3 attack dice always is better than 2 with 1 re-roll, or 3 sometimes. An alpha does more damage than a BSP with Predator against PS3+. I realize that one squad point might matter for your build, but I feel like people think 2 dice +1 re-roll is better than 3 dice mathematically.

I've been liking Black Sqd + Predator but after trying to do the math to prove why I like it, I not only spent an hour and a half of my life, but learned what a binomial distribution is. And that there's calculators for them online! Somebody correct me if I'm interpreting them incorrectly.

Unfocused (odds of hit 50%)

Odds of dealing AT LEAST two hits on two dice: 25%

Odds of dealing AT LEAST two hits on two dice with one reroll: 37.5% (one reroll with a 50% chance of it occurring)

Odds of dealing AT LEAST two hits on three dice: 50%

Focused (odds of hit 75%)

Odds of dealing AT LEAST two hits on two dice: 56.25%

Odds of dealing AT LEAST two hits on two dice with one reroll: 70.3125% (one reroll with a 25% chance of it occurring)

Odds of dealing AT LEAST two hits on three dice: 84.375%

So yeah, PS4 is important, but I don't know if it's THAT important. If you can cram in Alphas it sure seems like it's worth it to take them.

I've been liking Black Sqd + Predator but after trying to do the math to prove why I like it, I not only spent an hour and a half of my life, but learned what a binomial distribution is. And that there's calculators for them online! Somebody correct me if I'm interpreting them incorrectly.

Unfocused (odds of hit 50%)

Odds of dealing AT LEAST two hits on two dice: 25%

Odds of dealing AT LEAST two hits on two dice with one reroll: 37.5% (one reroll with a 50% chance of it occurring)

Odds of dealing AT LEAST two hits on three dice: 50%

Focused (odds of hit 75%)

Odds of dealing AT LEAST two hits on two dice: 56.25%

Odds of dealing AT LEAST two hits on two dice with one reroll: 70.3125% (one reroll with a 25% chance of it occurring)

Odds of dealing AT LEAST two hits on three dice: 84.375%

So yeah, PS4 is important, but I don't know if it's THAT important. If you can cram in Alphas it sure seems like it's worth it to take them.

Yes, yes, to math(s) you listen!

The guys who are pro PS 1 Interceptors are also taking into account that it is indeed, PS 1 - meaning, it won't have a focus token to spend to modify its attacks most of the time, whereas the BSP will (vs most other generics).

Not hating on the Alpha mind you, however there are clear pros and cons for both.

For me - I would take the BSP as it comes down to cost vs the rest of my list, and play-style.