Avenger upgrade tie advanced only add one dice to primary weapon 2 points, let's face it sooner or later the tie avenger will come out and made the advanced obsolete so letting it upgun to match the production model makes sense.

They said that the Interceptor would like a card in the Scyk pack, not the Advanced.

I think they said it was in the StarViper pack.

Avenger upgrade tie advanced only add one dice to primary weapon 2 points, let's face it sooner or later the tie avenger will come out and made the advanced obsolete so letting it upgun to match the production model makes sense.

I think Avenger diehards are headed for disappointment, and it seems like adding +1 attack die will create a fairly sizeable problem: the PS1 3/3/3/3 Defender costs 30, and a +1 Attack title creates a PS2 3/3/3/2 Advanced for 21 points plus the cost of the title. That's too close for comfort, and it means it's not a good solution.

Different roles while the defender is a long range sniper with the HLC you can make the avenger a more agile dogfighter, we only have the gunboat and avenger left now before you get to the really obscure eu ships.

Different roles while the defender is a long range sniper with the HLC you can make the avenger a more agile dogfighter, we only have the gunboat and avenger left now before you get to the really obscure eu ships.

They won't have different roles, because a 23-point ship with a 3/3/3/2 stat line (as proposed upthread) will push the Defender out of Imperial play entirely. Not incidentally, it would probably do the same for the Firespray, generic TIE Bombers, and TIE Interceptors.

Point-for-point, the Advanced is not as good as an X-Wing. Looking at generic pilots, an X-Wing is also not a good ship. Why pay 21 points for an X-Wing when you can pay 22 for a B-Wing?

Thanks Trustybroom. In fact this is/has been my entire point/suspicion all along.

I first started playing XWing with Rebels, and got my ass kicked....a lot. And I looked at TIE F vs. X Wing and/or Squints vs. X Wings and I thought...how is this balanced?

Rebels take X Wings because they don't have a better option to fulfill that squadron niche (whatever it is/means to that individual player). Imperials disregard TIE Advanced because they have much better options to pick from.

But I hear what others are saying about the need for firepower more than agi. I get that Firepower = better than Agi. But I'm curious if the Advanced's action bar makes up for that. I'll have to play it to make up my mind for myself.

Edit: I just did a chart that proves out how much more swiftly the 3 gun vs. 3 agi defeats 2 gun vs. 2 agi.

The long and short of it; an X Wing and a Tie Advanced, shooting it at out at range 2 of one another, with no nothing else, just upgrades. The X Wing destroys the Tie Advanced in 13.5 rounds, the Tie Advanced shoots down the X Wing in 20 rounds.

That really solidifies for me how much of a difference it is.

They said that the Interceptor would like a card in the Scyk pack, not the Advanced.

I think they said it was in the StarViper pack.

That's correct. The TIE INTERCEPTOR will like a card in the STARVIPER pack. Finally straightened that out!

Point-for-point, the Advanced is not as good as an X-Wing. Looking at generic pilots, an X-Wing is also not a good ship. Why pay 21 points for an X-Wing when you can pay 22 for a B-Wing?

Thanks Trustybroom. In fact this is/has been my entire point/suspicion all along.

I first started playing XWing with Rebels, and got my ass kicked....a lot. And I looked at TIE F vs. X Wing and/or Squints vs. X Wings and I thought...how is this balanced?

Rebels take X Wings because they don't have a better option to fulfill that squadron niche (whatever it is/means to that individual player). Imperials disregard TIE Advanced because they have much better options to pick from.

But I hear what others are saying about the need for firepower more than agi. I get that Firepower = better than Agi. But I'm curious if the Advanced's action bar makes up for that. I'll have to play it to make up my mind for myself.

Edit: I just did a chart that proves out how much more swiftly the 3 gun vs. 3 agi defeats 2 gun vs. 2 agi.

The long and short of it; an X Wing and a Tie Advanced, shooting it at out at range 2 of one another, with no nothing else, just upgrades. The X Wing destroys the Tie Advanced in 13.5 rounds, the Tie Advanced shoots down the X Wing in 20 rounds.

That really solidifies for me how much of a difference it is.

Absolutely try it out. Many have tried. None have succeeded.

Avenger upgrade tie advanced only add one dice to primary weapon 2 points, let's face it sooner or later the tie avenger will come out and made the advanced obsolete so letting it upgun to match the production model makes sense.

I think Avenger diehards are headed for disappointment, and it seems like adding +1 attack die will create a fairly sizeable problem: the PS1 3/3/3/3 Defender costs 30, and a +1 Attack title creates a PS2 3/3/3/2 Advanced for 21 points plus the cost of the title. That's too close for comfort, and it means it's not a good solution.

100% get where your coming from but there are things they can do, it could lose an agility making it more comparable to the x-wing for example, they could change missile slot to torpedo or remove it altogether, the strength of the defender isn't the 3 attack its the cannon slot and the 4k turn neither of which the avenger would have.

Avenger upgrade tie advanced only add one dice to primary weapon 2 points, let's face it sooner or later the tie avenger will come out and made the advanced obsolete so letting it upgun to match the production model makes sense.

I think Avenger diehards are headed for disappointment, and it seems like adding +1 attack die will create a fairly sizeable problem: the PS1 3/3/3/3 Defender costs 30, and a +1 Attack title creates a PS2 3/3/3/2 Advanced for 21 points plus the cost of the title. That's too close for comfort, and it means it's not a good solution.

Avenger upgrade tie advanced only add one dice to primary weapon 2 points, let's face it sooner or later the tie avenger will come out and made the advanced obsolete so letting it upgun to match the production model makes sense.

I think Avenger diehards are headed for disappointment, and it seems like adding +1 attack die will create a fairly sizeable problem: the PS1 3/3/3/3 Defender costs 30, and a +1 Attack title creates a PS2 3/3/3/2 Advanced for 21 points plus the cost of the title. That's too close for comfort, and it means it's not a good solution.

Except they have radically different dials. It isn't stats alone that determine role. If you want a cannon and k turn shenanigans go Defender. If you want cannons and a rear arc and a robust ship go Firespray. If you want a low thrills dog fighter with a missile and shields then this is where the Avenger would be.

So a 3/3/3/3 ship and a 3/3/3/2 ship are different enough as long as they have different dials? Different enough to justify, e.g., a 7-point price difference? I don't think so.

Based on the interview, I think the solution is going to be a LOT more creative than another Chardaan or upping the attack.

My money is on multiple cheap or free titles and a few new REALLY good pilots that will define the advanced role and combo off those titles.

The avenger is an advanced with pointy wings! That is less different than many tie variants. The Inquisitor advanced from REBELS is more different a ship looks wise than the avenger is to advanced! It was cool in a video game, what else makes it special? It's not a superiority fighter... That's the defender. It isn't housing super advanced tech, that's the phantom (and the advanced!). There will be an avenger title and it won't be spectacular because it wasn't that spectacular a ship in the first place (prepared for heat... Brought my sunscreen, six pack, and oven mitts!).

The firepower is aweful. The dial is aweful for a dogfighting ship. 2 actions that you seldom use or face even worse offense come nowhere close to the power and flexibility of the astromech slot... Compare it to the Xwing. Xwing is great; it's the bwing that has 1 too many HP.

There are 2 problems with the Advanced. 1. it is overcosted, and 2. it doesn't have a niche.

There are 2 things I am hoping for.

a title that gives a free/discounted mod or missile. Or simply give the Advanced the boost action. That will instantly put Vader back in the mix.

The second thing, is that I think it would be a great platform as a support ship since then the durability would actually mean something. So, give the new pilots supportive skills, and give a supportive style EPT that fits into Vaders wheelhouse (the fact that he 2 actions). It somewhat leaves the generics and Maarek in the dust (although they would benefit from the title) but I'm okay with that. (The bwing pack did nothing to help Ibtisam and Ten be competitive)

Avenger upgrade tie advanced only add one dice to primary weapon 2 points, let's face it sooner or later the tie avenger will come out and made the advanced obsolete so letting it upgun to match the production model makes sense.

I think Avenger diehards are headed for disappointment, and it seems like adding +1 attack die will create a fairly sizeable problem: the PS1 3/3/3/3 Defender costs 30, and a +1 Attack title creates a PS2 3/3/3/2 Advanced for 21 points plus the cost of the title. That's too close for comfort, and it means it's not a good solution.

Except they have radically different dials. It isn't stats alone that determine role. If you want a cannon and k turn shenanigans go Defender. If you want cannons and a rear arc and a robust ship go Firespray. If you want a low thrills dog fighter with a missile and shields then this is where the Avenger would be.

So a 3/3/3/3 ship and a 3/3/3/2 ship are different enough as long as they have different dials? Different enough to justify, e.g., a 7-point price difference? I don't think so.

Only if you think the upgrade will be free. Which no one has suggest besides you. And considering that the jousting efficiency calculations shows the defender to be 6-4 points over costed it isn't too far off.