Is that supposed to mean something?

Perhaps a nod to your signature... ahem.

Ok. Geordan reads and posts on these boards, and he is usually pretty good about responding to any thread title that references his squad builder. But he hasn't chimed in here yet. Does that tell us something?

This is an interesting point.

Like the old saying don't fix what's not broken.

That particular saying is for Luddites. Horses were not broke, cars are still better. Propellers were not broke, jets are still better. Steam engines are not broke, diesels are still better. Model miniature special effects are not broke, computer graphics still make effects shots better.

A better saying is if you can improve on what we already have do it. Progress kicks ass.

Except of course that isn't what the expression means. Don't fiddle with something that is work, it doesn't mean don't replace it.

Also on the picture. It is clearly a photoshop jobbie, as the (Unreleased) header is missing and is replaced by the StarViper pack bit.

So nothing to see here and please move on.

Are there any other telltale signs of it being a photoshop job?

WHO CARES?!?!

Whether it's a third faction or not, or what your personal preferences are has no bearing whatsoever on the fact that eventually, FFG will run out of Imperial and Rebel ships to pump out that fit the timeline of the Galactic Civil War.

Someone earlier has posted that these should be "non-allied" ships, and have no allegiance to either side. Good idea. Nothing wrong with it.

So, what's wrong with a third faction? Just because YOU won't play it doesn't mean I won't.

How about this for a solution? Release the ship (or ships) with additional rules for a third faction. We've seen rules additions - with EVERY SINGLE LARGE SHIP RELEASED SINCE WAVE 2. Why should this be ANY different?

The Falcon gave us rules for large ships, for primary turreted weapons, for crew members, Ion rules for large ships etc. The Firespray gave us rules for alternate fire arcs, for Bombs, Cannon upgrades etc.

Why could there not be rules included with the Virago or Starviper that allow you to use the ship EITHER as an Imperial OR as a third faction??

FFG has been great about updating rules to include new and interesting ways to play, and things that would affect balance (look at barrel rolling large ships as an example).

So, why couldn't this work without offending everyone's sense of what's right? The inclusion of EU ships means that eventually it will happen - ships that just don't fit with one of the existing factions.. What do we do then?

Again, this is a game. If you don't like something, you don't need to use it, or play against it, or whatever.

Again, this is a game. If you don't like something, you don't need to use it, or play against it, or whatever.

Oh cool, my opponents should be pleased to hear as much when I inform them at my next tournament.

"Sorry, you can't play that YT-1300 today. The internet said so."

Again, this is a game. If you don't like something, you don't need to use it, or play against it, or whatever.

Oh cool, my opponents should be pleased to hear as much when I inform them at my next tournament.

"Sorry, you can't play that YT-1300 today. The internet said so."

Maybe I should have said, you can CHOOSE not to play against someone. No one is holding a gun to your head.. But, I guess you should just brandish your own personal b*tthurt like a badge of honor, ensuring that the 50% of people here that disagree with you don't get their way, and this game stagnates and dies. Everyone wins right?

The Internet is now saying that they CAN use that Falcon though.... so you are countermanded.

Again, this is a game. If you don't like something, you don't need to use it, or play against it, or whatever.

Oh cool, my opponents should be pleased to hear as much when I inform them at my next tournament.

"Sorry, you can't play that YT-1300 today. The internet said so."

Maybe I should have said, you can CHOOSE not to play against someone. No one is holding a gun to your head.. But, I guess you should just brandish your own personal b*tthurt like a badge of honor, ensuring that the 50% of people here that disagree with you don't get their way, and this game stagnates and dies. Everyone wins right?

Can I choose not to play against the guy I'm paired with in my first round match, the one fielding a Starviper?

Seriously, you can come up with a less cliched argument, can't you? We've heard this same song and dance before, and it's no more valid now than it was then. Your vitriol isn't making it any more compelling either.

What if there was a third faction but it wasn't tournament legal?

Then why bother..

Didn't you hear the news from Gencon? Games Workshop bought FFG and are going to introduce Warhammer 40k themes into the game so there will be at least 8 factions and they will all have poorly supported rules with horrible balance. Oh and we will have to pay more for our ships and build/paint them as well.

Didn't you hear the news from Gencon? Games Workshop bought FFG and are going to introduce Warhammer 40k themes into the game so there will be at least 8 factions and they will all have poorly supported rules with horrible balance. Oh and we will have to pay more for our ships and build/paint them as well.

Orks in Star Wars?!?!?11? My wildest dreams have come true!

Then why bother..

Because it seems like the casual players are the ones asking for a third faction, while the people opposed to it sound like tournament players from their reasons against it.

Didn't you hear the news from Gencon? Games Workshop bought FFG and are going to introduce Warhammer 40k themes into the game so there will be at least 8 factions and they will all have poorly supported rules with horrible balance. Oh and we will have to pay more for our ships and build/paint them as well.

Orks in Star Wars?!?!?11? My wildest dreams have come true!

We'll see how quickly you change your tune once the Gamorrean faction is released.

How dare you. How dare you.

Seriously, you can come up with a less cliched argument, can't you?

Have to agree with WW here. That's a inane argument to make in a competitive game like X-Wing. The argument works to a degree in MMO's or SP type video games, but does not work in miniature games.

If I walk into a store and the only person there wants to play X ship that I don't like, my option is play against him or don't play at all.

You'll have to deal with it. And I think purists who can't compromise are going to find themselves becoming more and more isolated as more tools for both sides are being released.

I, for one, don't want to go back to TIE Swarms and bounty hunters being the only viable imperial options. Even if I didn't already love the defender and like the Phantom, I welcome these options to help diversify imperial strategy.

But it's only going to get further and further into the EU from here. Being purist to the screen is VERY limiting, and there's only so many times you can re-release a given fighter before it gets boring. Plus, I think there's more people who want to see their favorite EU ships being depicted anyway.

From a fluff standpoint, I don't see bounty hunters and criminal orgs going toe to toe and engaging Rebel/Imperial forces directly. Also, they are mostly independent...I don't think it makes sense to field Dengar, IG-88, and a pair of Hutt fighters in the same list.

Just throwing this concept out there...what if bounty hunters, well, bounty hunted? The game would still be binary (reb vs imp), but you place bounties on specific pilots. For example, I hate howlrunner and place a bounty on her. If my opponent fields her, oh snap, here comes Bossk along with my 3 Bwings! Only thing is, Bossk has debuffing abilities that effect every ship he is next to, regardless of affiliation. Also, if my 3 bwings go down, Bossk will just peace out and I lose the game.

How about that?

Can't like Norse's post enough, being a purist for Star Wars is a silly thing, I could understand great literature such as Lord of the Rings, but Star Wars????? The books are the only thing I consider better than Star Trek.

What if there was a third faction but it wasn't tournament legal?

I think that would produce just as much vitriol as the rest. A lot of folks would be unhappy to pay for ships they couldn't possibly use in a tournament. Especially if they get a great build

3rd faction is just to impractical at this point in the game, I won't mind if it is released (Chiss anyone?) but I honestly don't think it would work, as WW has said, it would either imbalance game or not make enough of an impact to justify making it.

Again, this is a game. If you don't like something, you don't need to use it, or play against it, or whatever.

Oh cool, my opponents should be pleased to hear as much when I inform them at my next tournament.

"Sorry, you can't play that YT-1300 today. The internet said so."

Maybe I should have said, you can CHOOSE not to play against someone. No one is holding a gun to your head.. But, I guess you should just brandish your own personal b*tthurt like a badge of honor, ensuring that the 50% of people here that disagree with you don't get their way, and this game stagnates and dies. Everyone wins right?

Can I choose not to play against the guy I'm paired with in my first round match, the one fielding a Starviper?

Seriously, you can come up with a less cliched argument, can't you? We've heard this same song and dance before, and it's no more valid now than it was then. Your vitriol isn't making it any more compelling either.

What if there was a third faction but it wasn't tournament legal?

Then why bother..

Well, let me put it this way - Epic introduced an entirely NEW way of playing this game. However, in standard play you can't use Epic ships - for obvious reasons. That being said, you CAN still use many of the upgrades, crew, droids etc that were introduced when the Transport and Corvette were released.

How is this in ANY way different? I choose NOT to play Epic. However, if someone were to use upgrades or crew, or pilots from these sets, it doesn't in any way diminish the playability of the game, or unbalance it. Why would a third faction?

Again, your views are yours alone. Many may agree with you, but many do not. I don't see something that expands this game as being a BAD thing. It's just different, and something we need to adapt to - or abandon.

People said that Epic ships wouldn't 'take off', and no one would buy them. But, there is enough value represented in those ships that they've been literally flying off the shelves at LGS's everywhere. I would assume that a third faction might do the same for the game. You may not like it, but it doesn't make it wrong.

Well, let me put it this way - Epic introduced an entirely NEW way of playing this game. However, in standard play you can't use Epic ships - for obvious reasons. That being said, you CAN still use many of the upgrades, crew, droids etc that were introduced when the Transport and Corvette were released.

How is this in ANY way different? I choose NOT to play Epic. However, if someone were to use upgrades or crew, or pilots from these sets, it doesn't in any way diminish the playability of the game, or unbalance it. Why would a third faction?

Again, your views are yours alone. Many may agree with you, but many do not. I don't see something that expands this game as being a BAD thing. It's just different, and something we need to adapt to - or abandon.

People said that Epic ships wouldn't 'take off', and no one would buy them. But, there is enough value represented in those ships that they've been literally flying off the shelves and LGS's everywhere. I would assume that a third faction might do the same for the game. You may not like it, but it doesn't make it wrong.

So which "many" get to have their way, while others are left out in the rain? You're forcing it into a zero-sum game, and it doesn't have to be that way.

Expansion is great.. wonderful even, but new factions are not needed in a 2 player game where it is good vs bad... it is easy enough to shoehorn any new ship into the existing 2 sides.. dont you all think, thatif they were going to do another faction that they already would have. Logic dictates the answer, us yes. But they haven't, and the best ships for a new factoon atpre alread yin incorperated in the game. So, third factions.. very doutful. Just because you want something so bad doesn't mean it's going to happen.

How is this in ANY way different? I choose NOT to play Epic.

Because a 3rd faction would be part of the standard game, and allowed in tournaments. Epic on the other hand is a separate rule set.

Unless you're saying that a 3rd faction wouldn't be allowed as part of the standard game...