I'm not sure if I like it. You're sacrificing the natural maneuverability of the squints in favor of sticking with the bombers. I'd swap the APs for a PS upgrade on all four ships, and toss in one more squint at the new PS.

EDIT: I guess if you're teching against Phantoms, the maneuverability won't matter much since they'll go after you anyways. This list just got harder to make better...

The problem with the TIE Swarm is the Z-95 assault missile swarm. You can't really fly in formation because Lt Blount and his pals will take out your entire swarm in a single round.

However, you can modify your swarm to NOT include Howlrunner, and instead do things like Black Squadron pilots with Predator and Outmaneuver. It allows you to fly in formation with around 6 ships, but if you face a Z-95 swarm it also allows you to spread out and still be effective.

I was going to say this, but our Crab-Ee-Won typed it up just fine.

There are reasons why I have been one of the few defenders of the glorious'ness that are The TIE Defenders from day one... Just say'n.

would really love to watch you play 8 tie vs phantom. i bet id learn something

And this is why I am thinking that if flown smart, a TIE Swarm could hold its own still. I guess my point was that I do not think that they are as dead as everyone seems to think that they are. More so in the heavy YT meta we now live in, they excel in that environment!

I should be happy with a top 4 in 61 players lol, and being 2 hull points away from the final match, but I am confident that if I had handled the deployment/ initial approach a bit better I could've won the event with the 8 ties. I tried something different than my first impression, but that's what you get sometimes at 1:30 a.m. when you're not playing something more "brainless". It may not seem like it, but in this environment with phantoms and all, 8 ties takes much more thought I think than 7 tie howlrunner did. They also won the french national.

Yeah, my Regionals was the same. Not to take anything away from my opponent who beat me in round one of the top 8, but I was exhausted!

oh hey, you work on the NOVA radio right?

Is it possible to get a written version of that? Even like a basic transcript automatic?

I hate wasting time listening at not my own pace to videos and audio information

oh hey, you work on the NOVA radio right?

Is it possible to get a written version of that? Even like a basic transcript automatic?

I hate wasting time listening at not my own pace to videos and audio information

Download it, play it in your favorite media player with speed modifications. You listen fast? Bring it to 1.2-1.3x speed. You like it slow? Take it down to 0.8x. Should be fine. Most pod casters don't take the time to make transcripts, as that is a ton of work to add to an already impressive workload to produce a single episode.

... Black squadrons with pred or w/e will get murdered by phantoms. And may even lack the punch after a couple of rounds to finish off a wounded falcon. But 5-6 loose ties would be very easy for phantom. It is ALL about numbers with the phantoms. Even enough to give up on the mighty howlrunner.

and still be effective. ...

I think I must be tired

But are you saying that 5-6 TIE's are easy for a phantom to shoot down? If so... What do you mean with "It is ALL about numbers..."? That we need a 7-8 swarm?

A TIE Swarm won the French National, though from what I read it faced many, many rebel lists on the way to the final, which may have contributed a bit to the ultimate outcome.

TIE swarms beat YTs. YTs beat Phantoms. Phantoms beat TIE swarms. All theoretical, of course, but I think this is a very healthy place for the game to be in right now. Most people just haven't realized it yet.

Maybe I'm in the minority...I just don't think any list is an "I-Win" or for that matter "I-Lose."

The player wins the battle, not the list.

If you know your swarm list well it is a good list against any other list. You know it's strengths, it's weaknesses, and what it can and cannot do. The only other factor you can influence is static barrier/obstacle placement.

4AD and 4ED are very impressive...until you are behind him (0AD) and you've blocked him in so he cannot fire or take an action to recloak (2ED). At that point, the Phantom is just a beer-mug of points waiting to be chugged down.

And I still see swarms being run and doing well...so I think there is life yet.

A TIE Swarm won the French National, though from what I read it faced many, many rebel lists on the way to the final, which may have contributed a bit to the ultimate outcome.

In the top 16 it beat 2 phantom lists and 2 falcon lists. Can't ask for much more than that right now.

That being said, from looking at the top 16 game specifically, it was not an overly impressive build (that particular phantom build) and the player didn't fly particularly well. But that's how this game works.

TIE swarms beat YTs. YTs beat Phantoms. Phantoms beat TIE swarms. All theoretical, of course, but I think this is a very healthy place for the game to be in right now. Most people just haven't realized it yet.

Very well said!! The game got a jolt of fresh perspective.

My "tie swarm"

Soontir Fel:

Ptl

Target Computer

x3 Black Squadron Pilot

x3 Predator

Dark Curse

If the TIE Swarm is dead, I wouldn't shed a tear...

The game before last, my buddy flew a TIE swarm and proceeded to club my E-wing/X-wing list like a baby seal.

Felt alive to me...

Zombies, bruh

Unfortunately, the Tie swarm is far from dead..

Not a fan myself.

Who the hell said the swarm is dead anyway?

Is Elvis really dead?

Swarms win. They just do if you have the time in with them and get average rolls. They roll things when rolls go thier way and they still have a shot when things aren't going thier way.

Roll out swarmers!

Old lists don't die... They just fade away.

TIE swarms beat YTs. YTs beat Phantoms. Phantoms beat TIE swarms. All theoretical, of course, but I think this is a very healthy place for the game to be in right now. Most people just haven't realized it yet.

It's (yes, theoretically) balanced, and there's certainly something to be said for that, but are these the top three meta lists because that's what the game balance objectively makes the most probable, or because that's what people think they need to play?

It would be interesting if MJ's data might at some point reflect the probabilities (from observed outcomes) on how often the Swarm>YTs>Phantoms>Swarm reality holds. I think it can be pulled out of the top 4 tournament data, but below that I don't think it shows dyads between lists.

The problem with the TIE Swarm is the Z-95 assault missile swarm. You can't really fly in formation because Lt Blount and his pals will take out your entire swarm in a single round.

However, you can modify your swarm to NOT include Howlrunner, and instead do things like Black Squadron pilots with Predator and Outmaneuver. It allows you to fly in formation with around 6 ships, but if you face a Z-95 swarm it also allows you to spread out and still be effective.

Except if you have a TIE Swarm and you see you are going up against a Z-95 swam, then just break formation. One on one TIEs will chew through Z-95s. The very fist thing I learned playing X-wing, 2 attack dice ships do pretty well shooting at 2 agility ships, but 2 attack dice ships shooting at 3 agility ships is really hard. I flew in the very first X-wing tournament at Gen-Con two years ago, I flew Vader + a TIE Swarm (though it hadn't been named yet) and by the luck of the draw I never flew against a Rebel player that whole tournament. Now, I will admit I had just only read the rules the night before, nobody knew what they were doing, but we had some very low kill matches, I even had one match where nobody killed a ship. I ended on a weird rule technicality, because my opponent only had 99 points.

Now you may say, wait, the z-95s are loaded up with missiles, even if they don't do splash damage they will do more damage. But those are 5 point missiles. And 4 attack dice against 3 agility isn't going to be a sure kill even against a TIE.

I am excited to play my TIE swarm against a z-95 swam.

I recently played a 6 tie fighter/1 bomber swarm at regionals in Duluth against a z95 swarm of 8 ships. It was an incredibly fun dogfight with the end result being one of us was going to be in the championship. As well, it was undoubtedly the best match I've ever played - very close . He even stretched his swarm out to try and deal with my bomber having assault missiles (although I did get a couple of his ships at range 1 of each other). I too am looking forward to z95 swarm matches.