Just saying that whatever model we get of the TIE/ad will be hard to tell apart.

I'd the able to tell it apart immediately based on whether the solar panels have that goofy X on them or not.

Also, the panels on the one in SW:TF are the same length in the front and the back. On FractalSponge's model, the ones in the front are longer, which gives it that more daggery shaped look like the Interceptor has.

Small base ship. (it's actually shorter than an X-Wing).

Hmm ..seems bigger in the games

Small base ship. (it's actually shorter than an X-Wing).

Hmm ..seems bigger in the games

That is because you are used to flying a TIE which is much smaller.

Just saying that whatever model we get of the TIE/ad will be hard to tell apart.

I'd the able to tell it apart immediately based on whether the solar panels have that goofy X on them or not.

Also, the panels on the one in SW:TF are the same length in the front and the back. On FractalSponge's model, the ones in the front are longer, which gives it that more daggery shaped look like the Interceptor has.

Okay, fair point.

**** we really do need this ship.

Guys, we've been over this before. The model in TIE Fighter isn't all that different from FractalSponge's.

"But Lackwit, you're wrong! Each game depicts it as having a wide cockpit!"

Well the X-Wing Alliance Upgrade Project guys believed that too, but like many, they do not do their research.

As you can see, the CGI model is QUITE different from the In-Game model, not picture at the time. FractalSponge really just made it smoother and more consistent with contemporary TIE Designs, guys.

Not that that's a bad thing at all- it seriously isn't, because the wide cockpit is f***ing stupid.

Just saying that whatever model we get of the TIE/ad will be hard to tell apart.

This depiction from the Decipher SWCCG was what fractalsponge based his on. SWCCG had a TIE Defender pic that is basically what we have today in the game around the same time as the essential vehicle guide and the Action fleet model. They never made a Gunboat or Missile Boat card though... I hope history doesn't repeat.

I suspect the TIE Advanced is this game's version of the "Avenger" - FFG decided to just use the sculpt of Vader's custom TIE for both the Advanced and the Advanced x1 as it was more recognizable to the casual Star Wars fan. Notice how only Vader's TIE has TIE Advanced x1 in its ship type, while the rest are TIE Advanced?

Nah the avenger is coming if the advanced was the avenger then they'd of made the tittle "tie avenger upgrade" and just had it add one firepower this way they improved the advanced and left is so they can add the avenger later.

They couldn't add the avenger before fixing the original advanced.

Small base ship. (it's actually shorter than an X-Wing).

Hmm ..seems bigger in the games

There's quite a few pictures on the first page that can give you a good size comparison, anyway.

I just kind of realized something. Since the TAP is coming out, it is sitting right in the middle of the niche that would be occupied by the Avenger. You have a ship that is more maneuverable than the Advanced, with a lighter hull and decent speed and actions. You also have a missile launcher. The only thing that is missing is an extra attack die to account for the Avenger's 4 lasers. This is pretty much in line with the Avenger in the X-Wing and TIE series being a speed demon that relied on shields to make up for an egg carton hull.

Given all this, I don't see how the Avenger could be introduced without the TAP being rendered obsolete or the Avenger being obsolete out of the box. The TAP is already in the area slightly between the Interceptor and the Defender. The only thing that I could think of would be for FFG to release a multiship pack that included Avenger models that worked off the same rule set as the TAP but had a special title for TIE Avenger that increased the cost and gave an extra base attack die.

Given all this, I don't see how the Avenger could be introduced without the TAP being rendered obsolete or the Avenger being obsolete out of the box. The TAP is already in the area slightly between the Interceptor and the Defender.

A. You are fooling yourself if you think the area between the Interceptor and the Defender is slight. They are almost completely opposite ships in this game.

B. As with all things, cost is what sets ships apart. Plus, as agile as the TAP is, it didn't bring T-Rolls to the Empire. That could be the Avenger's deal.

I mostly meant pointwise.

TAP: 16-25

TIE/I: 18-27

TIE/Adv: 21-29

TIE/D: 31-37

We know that the Avenger was a somewhat cheaper stepping stone to get to the Defender. The basic Advanced somewhat fills that niche. The TAP is also in that neighborhood in point cost albeit closer to that of the Interceptor.

What should the Avenger have? 3 dice? Shields? Perhaps a tractor system? Ultra maneuverable?

The TAP covers half of those points while the TIE Advanced gets a semi 3 dice roll with the major fix of ATC. We already have Vader and Steele as pilots on the Advanced although you never saw Steele in the X1.

The question is how do you get the Avenger without stepping on the toes of the above fighters? If you give it a tractor beam and 3 dice, you're taking a lot of the attributes of the Defender away. 3 dice and cheaper than the defender yet more durable than the Interceptor while still being nimble takes away from the Interceptor's status of being the Imperial's only cheap 3 dice fighter. And the TAP once again loses most of its functionality as the Avenger will have to be close to it in cost to avoid supplanting the Interceptor completely or being overcosted.

Does adding in a T-Roll justify putting in yet another ultra nimble Imperial ship? If the TAP hadn't been released, I could see a nook existing for a nimble Imperial ship costing maybe 25-33 and having shields, 3 dice and a warhead launcher. That area is just too crowded now. One of the ships in this hierarchy would have to go the way of the E-Wing.

Well, that is a problem with FFG's decision of making small ships for the Empire to be only TIEs. Now there are so many of them that it feels like their roles are starting to overlap.

But also the B-Wing kind of rendered the X-Wing obsolete, as the T70 did with the E-wing, and perhaps even the Z95 did with the A-Wing, in a different way. Right?

Anyway, they still manage to make all of them distinct from each other. Also, do not forget that for some ships, mostly generics are played, but for other ships, mostly aces are. Few people field Alpha Squadron TIE Interceptors, but that ship lives by its aces. Similar with the TIE Punisher. At the same time, few people play the non-generic B-Wings or Y-Wings.

So you can have a new ship whose role can be defined mainly by the abilities of its aces, if you feel that just stats and dial are too samey to other fellow ships.

In any case, I think a TIE "Avenger" with white talon rolls and all speed 3 greens could be fun and different.

Give it a couple of different titles to allow for radically different loadouts or roles, and two or three innovative ace abilities, and you will have something refreshing on the table.

What should the Avenger have? 3 dice? Shields? Perhaps a tractor system? Ultra maneuverable?

It's an Interceptor with Missiles, Shields, and a different dial. Just like the Advanced is a Fighter with Missiles, Shields and a different dial.

As long as ships aren't identical, they are worth having. Because different people will want to play them differently, even if they serve the same general purpose.

3 3 2 3. With t rolls, a missile slot and a tech slot. Make 1 speeds red and 3+ speeds green. It would be unique enough.

But back to the Gunboat... Are there any named pilots besides Maarek?

But back to the Gunboat... Are there any named pilots besides Maarek?

Check page one. Some of the listed pilots (like Xeal, for instance) were taken from the Stele Chronicles (and the TIE Fighter Strategy Guide).

Then you've got Flight Officers Carith, Alimet & Ketcher, from the same source. At a push you could probably use Admiral Demetrius Zaarin (although he's probably best saved for a future crew card).

Well, that is a problem with FFG's decision of making small ships for the Empire to be only TIEs. Now there are so many of them that it feels like their roles are starting to overlap.

And, again, there's no such thing as roles in this game.

As long as ships aren't identical, they are worth having. Because different people will want to play them differently, even if they serve the same general purpose.

With the underlined part in my quote I meant that for, some people, having so many ships that look similar can lead them to think that they are in fact quite the same, only with slight differences, and slightly different miniature. Not that I actually agree with that myself.

We are in the same boat here in respect to the TIE Avenger. I think that a ship can feel radically different from another with a few minor tweaks on stats, dial, upgrade slots, action bar, or titles.

I don't think the TIE/v1 will be played at all like the TIE/x1 is played today, even when they look "sameish".

For roles, I mean the nicknames given by the community to the archetype that the ship fulfills in a game. Glass cannon, tank, jouster, turret, arc dodger, swarm, buffer, debuffer, support, etc.

3 3 2 3. With t rolls, a missile slot and a tech slot. Make 1 speeds red and 3+ speeds green. It would be unique enough.

But back to the Gunboat... Are there any named pilots besides Maarek?

I mostly meant pointwise.

TAP: 16-25

TIE/I: 18-27

TIE/Adv: 21-29

TIE/D: 31-37

We know that the Avenger was a somewhat cheaper stepping stone to get to the Defender. The basic Advanced somewhat fills that niche. The TAP is also in that neighborhood in point cost albeit closer to that of the Interceptor.

What should the Avenger have? 3 dice? Shields? Perhaps a tractor system? Ultra maneuverable?

The TAP covers half of those points while the TIE Advanced gets a semi 3 dice roll with the major fix of ATC. We already have Vader and Steele as pilots on the Advanced although you never saw Steele in the X1.

The question is how do you get the Avenger without stepping on the toes of the above fighters? If you give it a tractor beam and 3 dice, you're taking a lot of the attributes of the Defender away. 3 dice and cheaper than the defender yet more durable than the Interceptor while still being nimble takes away from the Interceptor's status of being the Imperial's only cheap 3 dice fighter. And the TAP once again loses most of its functionality as the Avenger will have to be close to it in cost to avoid supplanting the Interceptor completely or being overcosted.

Does adding in a T-Roll justify putting in yet another ultra nimble Imperial ship? If the TAP hadn't been released, I could see a nook existing for a nimble Imperial ship costing maybe 25-33 and having shields, 3 dice and a warhead launcher. That area is just too crowded now. One of the ships in this hierarchy would have to go the way of the E-Wing.

I made a decent post awhile ago comparing the Avenger to the Virago Starviper, a maneuverable dial and lots of upgrade options on an Elite base (3red 3green 5health) , but lousy greens and a lack of Evade make the standard PTL for intercepters a poor choice.

The Starviper generics might be weak, because the ship was priced with Virago in mind. The Avenger doesnt need to fall into that trap.

With the underlined part in my quote I meant that for, some people, having so many ships that look similar can lead them to think that they are in fact quite the same, only with slight differences, and slightly different miniature. Not that I actually agree with that myself.

We are in the same boat here in respect to the TIE Avenger. I think that a ship can feel radically different from another with a few minor tweaks on stats, dial, upgrade slots, action bar, or titles.

I don't think the TIE/v1 will be played at all like the TIE/x1 is played today, even when they look "sameish".

For roles, I mean the nicknames given by the community to the archetype that the ship fulfills in a game. Glass cannon, tank, jouster, turret, arc dodger, swarm, buffer, debuffer, support, etc.

I've got to agree with these sentiments. I've now got the TIE's from the original X-Wing Core Set, the Wave 1 TIE expansion, the TIEs from the Imperial Assault Carrier... I haven't used the TIE/fo's from my Force Awakens set yet, and certainly don't plan on getting any extra. Then we've potentially got ther the First Order Special Forces TIE to come...

...they might all offer something different in game, but they all look just so similar. It's certainly understandable (Rebels series tie in (hah), new film etc), but it's getting rather uninspiring. I didn't get a Punisher because it just felt too much like the TIE Bomber.

There's more design space out there for Imperial ships, both aesthetically and mechanically, and I'd really like to see FFG explore some of those options.

The Assault Gunboat cannot get here fast enough.

...with two copies of Guidance Chips.

Guidance Chips, Long Range Scanners, Extra Munitions and XX-23 Thread Tracers, you mean!

I kid. Two of them can go in the Missile Boat expansion!

Kind of an aside, but what card/dial maker are people using? I have an entire Avenger expansion I want to throw together, but can't find a dial maker that has tallon and s-turn maneuvers.

Or a card maker with the tech upgrade option.

Don't know why an Endor-era ship would have a Tech slot.

Kind of an aside, but what card/dial maker are people using? I have an entire Avenger expansion I want to throw together, but can't find a dial maker that has tallon and s-turn maneuvers.

Or a card maker with the tech upgrade option.

I usually use Strange Eons. Not sure if it's been updated to include the new manuevers and Tech upgrades yet,though.

Don't know why an Endor-era ship would have a Tech slot.

A couple reasons:

They were one of the most advanced prototypes the Empire had at Endor.

Advanced sensors didn't feel right, and has been done before.

Comms and weapon systems aren't so advanced that an Endor era ship couldn't have them.

Here's an interesting concept for the Gunboat. For anybody who played X-Wing, the Gunboat was the hyperspace capable ship that would come wave after wave to attack you or the mission critical craft. In TIE Fighter, the arrival of Gunboats usually came after you heard 'Request for reinforcements acknowledged'.

I know there was a thread back in August on the subject, but here's how I would handle it.

Since the majority of fighters in this game are hyperspace capable and you don't want to limit future waves from using the card, make it 'Small ships only' and on the info card say that it cannot be equipped by K-Wings, TIE Interceptors, TIE Bombers, TIE Fighters (both LN and FO), TIE Punishers and the TAP (I'm going by the Wookie that the last two have no hyperdrive). You can add in certain Rebel and Scum ships to help keep things balanced between the factions. Give ships in future waves a special mark to indicate that the ability can be used by them.

Before the game starts, take a special dial that has 4 different directions on it with one edge marked your edge of play and secretly pick a side. It can then be covered up so that your opponent can't see it. As part of a disposable Elite card, you can call in these reinforcements anywhere along the edge that was chosen. The reinforcements (maybe 1 ship per 100 points?) can then deploy along the chosen side as normal. Put it at the start of the Activation phase similar to decloaking (initiative will decide whether the other team can decloak before you call for backup).

The upside to this? Your opponent has to play under the assumption that a well armed ship can pop up behind a vulnerable ship at any time. Fat turrets can find themselves between your pursuing forces and the new threat after they have already chosen their maneuver. A Palp shuttle or huge ship could find an ordnance heavy fighter popping up right in a blind spot.

The downside? The backup ship comes out of your point total so it is not in the initial fight. The longer you wait to bring it into play, the more your enemy can press their advantage. If the fight migrates to the other side of the map either randomly or because you telegraphed the reinforcement edge, you'll have to negate any of the above advantages plus having to move across the board to engage the enemy. Finally, you have to give up an Elite slot plus a certain number of points (if any), to bring the ability into play.

This would give the Gunboat a truly unique addition to the game. An elite pilot or squad could even have a special skill that enhances the reinforcement ability (maybe call it Tau Squadron?)

It would shake up the meta and introduce whole new methods of playing.

Thoughts?